T7 Yoshimitsu: Your Thoughts?

Page Splits 1...<333435
Share This Topic
Share
Subscribe/Jump Subscribe This Topic
< >
STRYKIE
Kyu
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 6
From: United Kingdom
#681 “Quote” Edit Post
My apologies if it's already been discussed somewhere else in this thread/other threads, but was it known that after U/B+1+2 on hit the opponent gets a free wake-up 4 in this game? Admittedly I haven't gone out of my way to dig my PS3 back out but I swear this wasn't a thing in T6 or Tag 2 :/
Aurongroove
Lone Wolf
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 325
From: Ireland
PSN: jfgtp
#682 “Quote” Edit Post
I think all of Yoshi's problems in T7 can be summed up in two words

poor damage.

There is just no way to get good damage out of him, it feels like every single move he has has been capped at 20 damage. and the ones that should be 30~35 are capped at 25.

You can't front load any combos, and hitting with a big unsafe, slow, risky launcher like Kangeroo kick should be racking up 80+ damage, but in T7 it barely limps over 70.
Jacks d1+2 (slow, high crushing unsafe launcher, same as KK) can easily hit 80+

Kangaroo Kick should be 30 damage, not 25
Flashing Steel, should be mid 20's not 'just' 20
KIN f2 should be 30 not 25
ff2:2 was supposed to be a decent combo ender for longer combos, but the damage scales to nothing.

there is no pay off in his combo game; he can't front load, he can't carry like some characters can, he can't maximize at walls like some characters can, or use breakables well like some characters, his Rage Drive "sounds" good, but I mean, some characters can take another 20+ points of health with their rage drive, reguardless of walls or whatever, yoshi gets another tail spin and the enemy is so far away you have no choice but to try for a pathetic amount of damage with ff2:2 or just drop it and try an oki shenanigans. It's not worth the poor 10 extra point of damage.


Yoshi in T7 got the same treatment Ivy did in SCV:
They reworked the character, and he works well now, but the damage output is basically just "wrong". It feels like you're playing against an opponent who has their HP handicap meter turned up.

Last edited by Aurongroove on Sep 7th, 2017 at 00:06

Signature I'm hilarious!
TTT
Lone Wolf
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 312
From: Malaysia
#683 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Aurongroove
I think all of Yoshi's problems in T7 can be summed up in two words

poor damage.

There is just no way to get good damage out of him, it feels like every single move he has has been capped at 20 damage. and the ones that should be 30~35 are capped at 25.

You can't front load any combos, and hitting with a big unsafe, slow, risky launcher like Kangeroo kick should be racking up 80+ damage, but in T7 it barely limps over 70.
Jacks d1+2 (slow, high crushing unsafe launcher, same as KK) can easily hit 80+

Kangaroo Kick should be 30 damage, not 25
Flashing Steel, should be mid 20's not 'just' 20
KIN f2 should be 30 not 25
ff2:2 was supposed to be a decent combo ender for longer combos, but the damage scales to nothing.

there is no pay off in his combo game; he can't front load, he can't carry like some characters can, he can't maximize at walls like some characters can, or use breakables well like some characters, his Rage Drive "sounds" good, but I mean, some characters can take another 20+ points of health with their rage drive, reguardless of walls or whatever, yoshi gets another tail spin and the enemy is so far away you have no choice but to try for a pathetic amount of damage with ff2:2 or just drop it and try an oki shenanigans. It's not worth the poor 10 extra point of damage.


Yoshi in T7 got the same treatment Ivy did in SCV:
They reworked the character, and he works well now, but the damage output is basically just "wrong". It feels like you're playing against an opponent who has their HP handicap meter turned up.


His uf+2 combo starter can lead to 94 damage if he is in rage mode and ends with RA (else around 81 damage without rage mode). Consider quite good i would say. The drawback is, it is not 100% consistent and almost not working on certain characters. I tested all chars 1 by 1, may be around 20+- of them are workable, while the rest are either too inconsistent or almost unable to launch.

The kangaroo kick, i rarely use it due to it is slow and not safe as you mentioned. I am wondering it is useful on what situation (might be good against jabber? i never try it myself as i feel unsafe doing so)

Personally, i never use ff2:2, and i almost see no one use ff2:2 as a combo ender in T7...My favourite combo ender is b2:1, KIN 2...

As for his wall damage... it is really low. He probably has the lowest wall damage in this game.
TTT
Lone Wolf
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 312
From: Malaysia
#684 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by STRYKIE
My apologies if it's already been discussed somewhere else in this thread/other threads, but was it known that after U/B+1+2 on hit the opponent gets a free wake-up 4 in this game? Admittedly I haven't gone out of my way to dig my PS3 back out but I swear this wasn't a thing in T6 or Tag 2 :/


Nope, U/B+1+2 is totally safe. Edited : My bad, as the below post mentioned, if the range is too close Yoshi can be kicked.

I suspect you were trying to refer to U/B+1+2, n, 1? (the move that Yoshi does a spinning sword). If it was, then you must cancel the spinning sword after it hits your opponent (press back to cancel it), else you might get kicked by a mid or low kick.

Last edited by TTT on Sep 17th, 2017 at 11:43

Cornwallace
Champion
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 287
From: New Zealand
PSN: Cornwillis
#685 “Quote” Edit Post
No, he's right, ub1+2 can be punished with a getup kick at certain ranges.

I'd agree that yoshi's combo damage is his weakness, but his oki is his strength. I would prefer having higher damage of course, but would I trade that for worse oki setups? Probably not. That's the reality of playing yoshi and it has been that way for a while. Just stick to WS 2,1 for big damage as it's the highest base damage WS launcher in the game.
TTT
Lone Wolf
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 312
From: Malaysia
#686 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Cornwallace
No, he's right, ub1+2 can be punished with a getup kick at certain ranges.



Thanks for the correction.

By the way, anyone knows what are the frame data for a blocked wake up 3 and blocked wake up 4?
DinoTheDonDaDa
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 923
PSN: DinoTheDonDaDa
#687 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by TTT
His uf+2 combo starter can lead to 94 damage if he is in rage mode and ends with RA (else around 81 damage without rage mode). Consider quite good i would say. The drawback is, it is not 100% consistent and almost not working on certain characters. I tested all chars 1 by 1, may be around 20+- of them are workable, while the rest are either too inconsistent or almost unable to launch.

The kangaroo kick, i rarely use it due to it is slow and not safe as you mentioned. I am wondering it is useful on what situation (might be good against jabber? i never try it myself as i feel unsafe doing so)

Personally, i never use ff2:2, and i almost see no one use ff2:2 as a combo ender in T7...My favourite combo ender is b2:1, KIN 2...

As for his wall damage... it is really low. He probably has the lowest wall damage in this game.



Personally I like Yoshi's juggle game

b2,1Kin.... or d221 for the staple/max damage... not great damage but will get the job done

Oki 50/50... for the highest damage possible, but not guaranteed, you really have to be in the opponents head and know their tendencies

f,f2:2 into IND to heal a fair chunk of life.... (damage should be greater since its a just frame tho, just as electrics give you a bigger pay off for execution)

Where they messed up with Yoshi in this game, too many of his moves are move fit for bound, in T6, this Yoshi would have been A tier. In what scenario would you do CD1, KIN, 2, 1+2, besides the one floor break stage? Same with the air throws.... very sexy addition, but almost pointless unless the floor is breaking
TTT
Lone Wolf
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 312
From: Malaysia
#688 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DinoTheDonDaDa
Personally I like Yoshi's juggle game

b2,1Kin.... or d221 for the staple/max damage... not great damage but will get the job done

Oki 50/50... for the highest damage possible, but not guaranteed, you really have to be in the opponents head and know their tendencies

f,f2:2 into IND to heal a fair chunk of life.... (damage should be greater since its a just frame tho, just as electrics give you a bigger pay off for execution)

Where they messed up with Yoshi in this game, too many of his moves are move fit for bound, in T6, this Yoshi would have been A tier. In what scenario would you do CD1, KIN, 2, 1+2, besides the one floor break stage? Same with the air throws.... very sexy addition, but almost pointless unless the floor is breaking


Yup, Oki is not guaranteed, and sometimes it can put Yoshi in a dangerous situation if we guess things wrong.

The ff2:2, the second 2 can be mashed, the damage is 30.

I understand why some Yoshi players are feeling unhappy with the damage, sometimes i have the same feeling when i juggle by certain chars and lose 60% of lifebar in one shot (with wall, without Rage mode).

Personally, I think Yoshi's juggle damage is ok, but the wall damage is really pitiful.

Watched many good Yoshi matches (example, Knee, Eyemusician, and a few more), basically, most of them sometimes lose very fast and sometimes win very fast, and winning chance is only 50-50 most of the time. I think this somehow has proved that Yoshi is not a char that can win consistently. But he is not weak tho, and the most important thing is, he is very fun to play.

The uf+2, is a very good tool, the follow up combo works very consistently on certain chars. Once it launches, it is a 97 damage with Rage, it certainly can change the match's outcome if your opp is still having a huge chunk of hp. Drawback is, i think it is pretty hard to launch on high level players as those top players most likely can block on reaction. But for average joe like me, it is really helpful.
TairyHesticles
1st Dan
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 19
From: USA Hawaii
#689 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DinoTheDonDaDa

f,f2:2 into IND to heal a fair chunk of life.... (damage should be greater since its a just frame tho, just as electrics give you a bigger pay off for execution)



It's infinitely easier than to do an electric, once you get the timing down you can get it very consistent. Im talking 95%+ consistent. It's not that hard.

Funny you think the damage is too weak, since it's actually used for max damage combos against large characters.

if they made it so you could BT d+1 afterward against all characters for guaranteed damage, it'd be a little too strong though.

Also his wall damage is low because he has probably the best wall oki in the game with Windmill/sword sweep.
Signature - Just got Lei'd
- Namu?
Paxsali
Kyu
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
From: Germany
PSN: paxsali81
XBL: paxsali
#690 “Quote” Edit Post
Almost every combo ends in b+2, 1~KIN f+2.

However, I have extreme difficulties to execute this.

Is there some kind of trick to think about it differently? Using buffering or how does everyone do it?

I'm using an arcade stick and the closest I get to is buffering the 1 from b+2, 1, then press 2 (into KIN stance), then I "try" to enter f+2, but it always comes out as KIN, 1+2 (so that 2-3 hit sword spinning combo that's all mid).

Your help is appreciated.
aviax
Blu Blazer Irregular
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1815
From: Japan
#691 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Paxsali
Almost every combo ends in b+2, 1~KIN f+2.

However, I have extreme difficulties to execute this.

Is there some kind of trick to think about it differently? Using buffering or how does everyone do it?

I'm using an arcade stick and the closest I get to is buffering the 1 from b+2, 1, then press 2 (into KIN stance), then I "try" to enter f+2, but it always comes out as KIN, 1+2 (so that 2-3 hit sword spinning combo that's all mid).

Your help is appreciated.


If you are having no problems consistently transitioning into the KIN stance, the last f+2 should be incredibly easy especially if you consider you can also do the input as [F],2. If you are unfamiliar with the annotation, what that means is simply hold f and then press 2 while still holding f.

For what it's worth, here's how I do the whole thing:

b+2,[1], +2~f (release both buttons), [f]+2

Meaning I do b+2, 1 and hold the 1 down. While still holding 1, I press 2 to get the KIN transition and then I hit f while releasing both buttons. The moment I see the KIN stance (having released the buttons and already holding F), I hit 2.

The button buffering in the first at the beginning isn't necessary, of course, but it seems to help my flow through this sequence.
Signature Autocrat1: "Default winning animation: Bryan punching face, minus punching just twerking"
My reply: OK, but only if they give him back his laugh and 'DIE!' during it.

handle: 六鬼袋《`》武雷庵
Paxsali
Kyu
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
From: Germany
PSN: paxsali81
XBL: paxsali
#692 “Quote” Edit Post
@aviax
I have tried that befoire with no success, however since I tried again because of your post I noticed something I missed before:

When I said I am pressing 1+2 into KIN, I actually did it once Yoshi lands / touches the ground.

I figured out that when you buffer 1+2 RIGHT after b+2, 1 (via direct input or buffering the 1) Yoshi automatically does the KIN stance when he lands.

So you can input 1+2 and several frames later after touching the ground the KIN comes out, it doesnt have to be inputted at the time of touchground.

Well, ... obviously this changes everything!

I can now enter the f+2 10/10 times successfully.
(although sometimes I do it too early, but the move comes out I wanna say, actually hitting the combo is maybe 7/10 times and impoving...).

Thanks man!
Aurongroove
Lone Wolf
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 325
From: Ireland
PSN: jfgtp
#693 “Quote” Edit Post
Why does yoshi have so many jumping mids that DO NOT hit tech crouch or low to the floor opponants? uf4 sometimes whiffs against low sweeps when it shouldn't, as do both of his back turn jumping kicks, all for different reasons and all at different angles or againt certain moves, why don't they sort this kinda crap out?
Signature I'm hilarious!
Paxsali
Kyu
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7
From: Germany
PSN: paxsali81
XBL: paxsali
#694 “Quote” Edit Post
Can somebody confirm that Alisia can escape the flee run, 2 combo finisher?
The 2 part is usually guaranteed, but Alisia can somehow always escape it.
oshtechx
Sage
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 490
From: United States
PSN: oshtech
#695 “Quote” Edit Post
It would be cool if they changed yoshis rage Drive command from cd1+2. Maybe as a version of the kangaroo kick that'll be more consistent to pull off. oh well season 2 is already out so we will just go ahead with what we have.
oshtechx
Sage
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 490
From: United States
PSN: oshtech
#696 “Quote” Edit Post
Cybernetic skull face yoshi - tekken 6 ,then tekken 7 octopus yoshi
PhineBuyM3
Fujin
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 592
From: USA Texas
#697 “Quote” Edit Post
I hate the flash in this game.

I hate that the backflip in bad breath stance doesn't stun in BT anymore.

I hate f,f,4. It's a good combo starter, but I much prefer the pre-T6 version.

Overall, he's better than he was in T6-TTT2(although I enjoy using him more in those games than I do in 7), but 5.0/DR Yoshi is still my favorite version of him.
Signature

 All times are GMT. The time now is 18:43

Page Splits 1...<333435
Moderator Tools
Forum Jump