Asuka vs ________ thread

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IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3040
From: Canada
#61 “Quote” Edit Post
Taken from my pub session thread as it was too good to get buried in troll posts...


VS Changs: Let's start with punishment.

uf4,3: -16, you can always i12 punish before the 1 of uf4,3,1
4~2>1: -16
4~2,: the low is -12
FC df4,3: -16 (bow & arrow kicks) Note: If you're already sw in either direction when FC df4,3 hits if the 4 connects the mid 3 will whiff. Bear this in mind when on the recieving end of a b3, FC df4,3 mixup.
shotgun, 2 (d,df1,2): -13
spin,4: -27+
spin,3,1: -15
ws4: -15 Note: Launchable at the w! otherwise you need something with range to reach.
b3: -13, +3 on hit low
db4: -13, +6 on hit low (Julia only)
df4,2: -16
df4,2,bf1 (MC/Mountain Crusher): -18
df2,1: -18 ("HAIIYAA!" Launcher)
ws1: -13
1,1,1: -12 Note: Any string that ends in ws1 is -12 on block.
f3,3: -12 (Julia only)
db1: -10
f4: -10 (pushback)
4: -12 - WTF! -2 on hit
4,4: -15, - on hit low
db3: -16, - on hit low
d3: -12, - on hit low
ff3: -14
db2: -13
1,2,1: -13
1,2,1,1: -18 on block low
ff2: -14 on block, -8 on hit, use getup kicks on oki spammers.

General Strats:

Throws:

Chang's have the i10, 'Mad Axes'/'Dejavu' and isw running grabs (fff2+4). Which gives them and Kings the only throws in the game that come out at jab speed. Breaking MA/Dejavu/isw with 1+2 is the key to beating Changs as these throws are designed to force players to duck. You can of course use this to your advantage (at a risk of course) by treating MA/isw like highs and ducking if you can't break them as launching. Michelle has the stronger throw oki so pay attention after she has put you on the ground, getting up straight away could end up with a shotgun in your back.
MA setups: ff1_df3 on hit into MA.

Tracking:

Believe it or not, Changs don't have the greatest tracking in the world. Generally swr vs them. Eventually those elbows and shotguns will become predictable and you can step and launch.

Safety:

Like Paul, Chang's are 50/50 characters, their high risk, high reward mixups come at a huge risk. Guess right and you win. Increasing these odds revolves around you knowing what to punish and knowing when to step in order to shut down your opponents options. Changs are among the most unsafe characters in the game.

Pressure:

iwr1: +7 on block high elbow
1: +1 on block jab
Throws (MA/isw)
4~2,1
ff1: -2 on block, +4 on hit
ff1,4: duck the high and launch
shotgun: 0 on hit, -2~-6 on block
b4: i17 homing high +1 on block

Changs generally don't get good hit frames, unlike generic df1's that are +8~+9 on hit and their + on hit lows are slow so pushing buttons or stepping/backdashing when you've been hit is more viable. Just be wary of CH4/CH shotgun setups if you want to to random hopkick.

Spin:

Spin is safe but unless shotgun has connected, Changs have no advantage. ID the spin and crouch jab to shut down any followups.

TL; DR Version:

Break MA/isw and punish/step everything properly or you're fucked.
Signature A split second is only 30 frames.
XelNaga
Top Tier Podcaster
Joined: Mar 2005
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Fergus
Kazama Slamma
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1338
From: Ireland
PSN: Fergus2k8
XBL: FlowchartFergus
#63 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by IRON LOBSTER
Chang matchup


Will keep this in mind for Skeering
Skeering
Eoin = Owen
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1664
From: Ireland
#64 “Quote” Edit Post
Haha that's kinda why I gave up on Julia. All the moves/setups I had on my fingertips were so punishable. I found myself relying on grabs so much to gain "safe" momentum.... but then again, if I read well and the opponent doesn't punish very well/ crouch jab her spin mixups she is sooo scary.
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power4ward
Shihan
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 113
#65 “Quote” Edit Post
Any recommendations vs Hwoarang?

I play with a very strong Hwoarang (and Baek) player in our playgroup (I'd say better than 90% of the Hwoarangs I see online) and I just can't block his strings. I'd much rather face a Mishima, Lars or Bob than face a Hwoarang (I understand that he falls much below them in the tier lists though).

In an effort to understand the character I have taken him to practice mode and I was quite surprised as to what I found. I always thought there was a "random" factor to the character but what I failed to realize was that his strings/attacks are very much customizable (very customizable not random). Hard for me to explain and perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong (I'm truly just trying to understand the character in order not to be a sitting duck vs him), but it feels like he can throw out mix ups at any given time. For example from a blocked ws4, 4 (which could happen right after the universal keep out d+1) he can go into a low (db+3?) a mid or a throw that is quite hard to break (f+2+3).

I suppose my issue is that I cannot see when the strings/attack ends or when the break in the barrage of legs is. It all looks very fluid to me. It was pointed out that the strings are sidesteppable. I find that I end up getting hit with a mid when I attempt to sidestep (I admit my sidestepping is random vs Hwoarang... and so is my blocking for that matter). At which point is he actually sidesteppable? Are there any visual cues? At which points (ie. which moves on block) of his string is he actually punishable?

Any general or better yet, specific tips would be greatly appreciated!
Skeering
Eoin = Owen
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1664
From: Ireland
#66 “Quote” Edit Post
There are very few Tekken players where I am, but the guy I play against most is a dedicated Hwo players of several years. Like you I don't know how to play him very well but I do have some generic advice I can give you. But I'm sure some one else here can give you better advice in a second...

1: obvious things like duck his 1,1,3,3 string. And duck RFF ff4,3 (sorry if notation is wrong)
2: Unless you know his frames very well just assume that he's always on + frames. You can pretty much never jab a good Hwo out of his mixups.
3: You'll have to guess his next mixup, the good news is that Hwo isn't top tier because he's always taking a risk with his next mixup. Either duck, SS or parry/crush if you feel frisky, and you can always get a launch.
4: Do learn some of his frames from his key moves. Like that overhead left punch he does that leaves you in FC. It's only +1 on block, so take an offensive there.
5: Learn to play with him if you can be bothered.

Sorry that's my two cents, (waits for a more comprehensive explanation from mods etc...)
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Fergus
Kazama Slamma
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1338
From: Ireland
PSN: Fergus2k8
XBL: FlowchartFergus
#67 “Quote” Edit Post
Any advice vs Lars? I have no idea what this character is doing and it's annoying me.
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Demoyon
prisoner of desires
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2665
From: Philippines
#68 “Quote” Edit Post
Just wait for his power lows and punish them. Sure he might not use them as much, but sooner or later, one of them will come out.

His poke lows (d+4, db+1, and FC df+1+2) are probably his most useful lows. The other lows are all launch punishable (or ws+1,4 at least for Asuka).

Oh, and be wary of uf+3. Always keep that move in your mind so that you don't get wtfcrushed.
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LouieJ
3rd Dan
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 32
From: Costa Rica
PSN: Albator356
#69 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey guys what's up, this is my first post here at TZ. I'm finally learning to play Tekken seriously after many years of competitive play in Soul Calibur. I'm familiar with most Asuka and overall general notations.

Do you guys have any advice against Lei? He seriously confuses me with his stance switching, lows and mixups.

Thanks for the help.
Skeering
Eoin = Owen
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1664
From: Ireland
#70 “Quote” Edit Post
He's such a complex character and one I use a lot. In general I have some advice. In general Lei has bad frames when he transitions kno stances. If you blocked his last move you can nearly always just hopkick or df2 to avoid he following stance mixup. There are a lot of exceptions to this rules. But since I am on a phone and you asked for general, not specific advice ill leave it there. This should help you beat bad Lei players at least... Like all characters you just have to do your homework
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Weizegger
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 105
From: Poland
PSN: WidowmakerPL
#71 “Quote” Edit Post
any advice vs Laws? Iron Lobster, are you there? I need your knowledge :<
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Skeering
Eoin = Owen
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1664
From: Ireland
#72 “Quote” Edit Post
He wrote a huge vrs for Law on the Jaycee forums.
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Weizegger
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 105
From: Poland
PSN: WidowmakerPL
#73 “Quote” Edit Post
Ill take a look at it, thx for the tip But I play only asuka/leo ;/
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Skeering
Eoin = Owen
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1664
From: Ireland
#74 “Quote” Edit Post
The only thing I know to do with Asuka vrs Law is...

1: d3+4 always beats the second part of junkyard and juggles Law.
2: He only has about 3 moves that she can't reverse.
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YoshikatYoko
Lone Wolf
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 347
From: South Korea
PSN: XaingCass1
#75 “Quote” Edit Post
Some tips versus Law:

1. Don't mesh up the ducking sequence of his 4,3~DSS. It's where people actually respect his mixup because they fail to duck the second hit.

2. Anticipate for that WS2/slide mixup. Remember that spacing this would make the mixup invaluable since WS2 lacks range (if spaced).

3. Never attack after his f+3+4 and f+1+2. It's + on hit.

4. Get used to blocking db+4,4.

5. If his partner is Paul, then, watch out for his tag combo f+2~1 bla bla. Edit: According to Skeering, it's launch punish so df+2 dat move.

6. If you have sliver of your health, sometimes some Law players tend to finish you off with df+1,3,2 string. LP the second.

7. Anticipate his BT mixups. This often starts with his string b+4~b.

Last edited by YoshikatYoko on May 8th, 2013 at 17:40

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TEKKEN 6 ASUKA COMBO ACT VOL. 1
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Skeering
Eoin = Owen
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1664
From: Ireland
#76 “Quote” Edit Post
That's moves launch punishable now
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Favorite quote: Everyone worse than you is a noob, and everybody better has no life...
Agh
Kyu
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 9
#77 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by power4ward
Any recommendations vs Hwoarang?

I play with a very strong Hwoarang (and Baek) player in our playgroup (I'd say better than 90% of the Hwoarangs I see online) and I just can't block his strings. I'd much rather face a Mishima, Lars or Bob than face a Hwoarang (I understand that he falls much below them in the tier lists though).

In an effort to understand the character I have taken him to practice mode and I was quite surprised as to what I found. I always thought there was a "random" factor to the character but what I failed to realize was that his strings/attacks are very much customizable (very customizable not random). Hard for me to explain and perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong (I'm truly just trying to understand the character in order not to be a sitting duck vs him), but it feels like he can throw out mix ups at any given time. For example from a blocked ws4, 4 (which could happen right after the universal keep out d+1) he can go into a low (db+3?) a mid or a throw that is quite hard to break (f+2+3).

I suppose my issue is that I cannot see when the strings/attack ends or when the break in the barrage of legs is. It all looks very fluid to me. It was pointed out that the strings are sidesteppable. I find that I end up getting hit with a mid when I attempt to sidestep (I admit my sidestepping is random vs Hwoarang... and so is my blocking for that matter). At which point is he actually sidesteppable? Are there any visual cues? At which points (ie. which moves on block) of his string is he actually punishable?

Any general or better yet, specific tips would be greatly appreciated!



vs Hwo I tend to try to parry a lot. At the minimum you'll get in their head, also if you're familiar playing him it makes it easier.

Once that is established your next best bet is going for some 4's - u/f+4, f+4, 4 , and try to min in some low pokes.


Originally posted by Fergus
Any advice vs Lars? I have no idea what this character is doing and it's annoying me.

if you're completely clueless then I'd recommend playing him to get a feel.
IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3040
From: Canada
#78 “Quote” Edit Post
Laws' f3+4 is -2 on block.
Signature A split second is only 30 frames.
Skeering
Eoin = Owen
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1664
From: Ireland
#79 “Quote” Edit Post
I really wish Levelupyourgame would do a b&b on Hwo.

I'm sure 90% players would appreciate it lol.
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Favorite quote: Everyone worse than you is a noob, and everybody better has no life...
Weizegger
Shihan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 105
From: Poland
PSN: WidowmakerPL
#80 “Quote” Edit Post
Any help vs williams? or at least Is there somewhere (not necessarily in asuka thread) an epic breakdown of countering williams sisters, like IRON LOBSTER's "vs laws" in jaycee section? Any help would be much appreciated.

Same question regarding lili xD

Last edited by Weizegger on May 11th, 2013 at 22:36

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