Feng's Pressure Guide

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TorqueStomp
4th Dan
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 40
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Oddly, there is no such thread for Feng, and I believe this deserves it's own unique thread / discussion. I've only "Mained" Feng for a week, but I believe I'm pretty competent on the subject. I believe it of utmost importance that people understand Feng's pressure game, because he has specialized tools as opposed to universal. My personal observations:
Basics
D/F1: This one is good for a close filler pressure move; to be used between other pressure moves.
B4: Good for close pressure / interruption.
D/F 4: Good for mid-range pressure / interruption.
FF2: Good for mid-/long-range pressure. "It's safe, it's mid, it covers really good range, awesome whiff punisher, knocks down, and even wall splats." - contributed by - OffInBed
F3: Good for long-range pressure / interruption / scare tactic, you'd throw in the follow-up 4 if you were certain they would be hit.
1,2,(2): This is a good filler, but is duck-able making it a sensitive move. This one is great for an opt-select. Training your opponent to expect 3 highs after for jabs will open up 1,1 CH possibilities. Just be certain to use 1,2,2 at least 3 times as often so they expect it every time.
D/B1,(2): Great for an opt select for either stance (~F for STC or ~B for Fake Step) also ducks and does adequate damage. I use this one as often as D/F1. It's just so versatile and relatively quick.
Advanced Pressure:
iWS1: "This is golden right here, it's really not easy to side step at all, closes the gap between your opponent, and even high crushes (during sway motion). It's very spammable at zero range. On hit I believe it leaves you at +5, on block I'm sure it leaves you at +1". - contributed by - OffInBed
Quick low options: to hopefully make them crouch for a mid punisher.
D4: Great close-range for turtles to chip off pixels and to keep them focused on the possibility of lows.
D/B3: Great mid-range low pressure, it leaves them at a slight frame advantage, though, so don't abuse.
D,D/F,F1: Very long range low, be sure not to abuse, and to use other sway moves to keep them guessing.
Rush Stopper's
B1: Very short range, but otherwise ultimate in interruption / scare tactic, besides which if it CH you can Forward Dash (ff) in for guaranteed B1+2 for good dmg.
U/F2: Keeps them afraid of using lateral moves or rushing in too eagerly and keeps you mobile.
B3,3: Another great move for those who are rushing on you, just be aware it is an interruptible move, I'd say it's a mid-range version of U/F2. I usually delay the second 3 as much as I can, sometimes they rush in to punish too early and get hit by it if the first kick whiffs.
B1+2: I use this a lot, despite how punishable it is, because it's amazing at interrupting opponent's short, mid, and long range rushes and I usually guess pretty well when it will hit, be careful though, they will begin to wait for it to whiff so they can punish with a combo. I suggest sparing use.
FF3: Long distance rush stopping. This move has a faster recovery than it appears, and may even bait a punishable move out of your opponent. Be careful, however, for if it whiffs you will be launched. - PhineBuyM3

Usually when crushed into a crouch by an opp, the only ws move I attempt is 4 but I usually turtle the after-shock, because most opp have flash follow-ups that are nigh-on impossible to interrupt otherwise.

I do of course defer to Mod's decisions if they do not like something about my post without complaint.
I would love to get some input from Adipati, I've read many of your posts and would love to know what you think.
This is just a rough-draft. I thought it up in about 40minutes, and am hoping it will evolve constantly from community input.

Last edited by TorqueStomp on Sep 16th, 2011 at 07:28

PhineBuyM3
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
I've only "mained" Feng for a few months and one of the things I'd like to add is f,f,3. When I'm spacing with my opponent I have a couple of options after a successful f,f,3 such as d4,1+2 if they're backrolling, d2 or d3+4. I know f,f,3 if ricky to pull off, but it catches people off guard in the heat of a spacing dance off. It has helped me reverse the pressure on pit bull players a few times.
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TorqueStomp
4th Dan
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 40
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
It's true that FF3 catches people off-guard a lot. I added it into long-range rush stopping.

A lot of people think it's way more punishable than it is, and it can catch people if you time it correctly. It's best to use when they're out of range and rushing into the range, imo.

I love catching people with it, I just imagine their 'wtf' as they get crushed out of nowhere..and they almost always roll back warranting the D4,1+2, as you said PhineBuy.
OffInBed
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Joined: Jan 2011
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Hello,

Although I can't say I agree with focussing on pressuring opponents with Feng, there are two tools that I feel are ERY VERY VERY important for such a matter.


WS1- Works much better if done instantly or a follow up with Feng's sway. This is golden right here, it's really not easy to side step at all, closes the gap between your opponent, and even high crushes (during sway motion). It's very spammable at zero range. On hit I believe it leaves you at +5, on block I'm sure it leaves you at +1 (the frame data on SD tekken must be incorrect as far as that goes, I'll explain reasoning if you ask). Best part is it's almost anti-aerial, I can't count how many times I've opted for this move and I end up floating someone attempting to jump. Try it out.

FF2 - It's safe, it's mid, it covers really good range, awesome whiff punisher, knocks down, and even wall splats.

Just to point out a few things, FF3 is an okay move, however it's ridiculously easy to side step. You mainly want to set this up in a way where your opponent won't or can't budge and is forced to block (oki perhaps?). It leaves you at +2 frames on block which is pretty decent. usually I'd use this move from BT when my opponent is against a wall. I'd never use it to close the gap, or whenever I want to keep someone at bay (at least not the guys I play with).

B1+2 for me is strictly for whiff punish. But I guess that can also apply as pressure. Good luck with completing the list! Hope I helped.
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TorqueStomp
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Your input is indeed of value.

I believe pressure is important..even for turtles. Being a turtle just means you want to draw out whiffs, which pressuring is very important for because it makes them think faster, and thus more recklessly. We're not talking about if you come up against Knee or Nin or anything absurd..this is casual play..but you'll notice even high-level (if not especially high-level) Feng players (such as Hao) throw out intense pressure. Obviously you'd take into account your opponent, and thus how safe you need to be.

FF3 and throwing B1+2 in the open work when you predict your opponent properly. It's worth the risk, to me, because the follow-up oki is another great opportunity for immense damage. I believe Feng has almost Steve-status oki.

I've added the two moves you've suggested. I completely agree.

Keep in mind I won't even try to act pro, I'm just a mediocre player with good ideas and mediocre application. ;P Argument is welcome as long as it is aimed towards reasonable progression for other players to gain a better understanding of Feng. It is encouraged.
wooden-man
Fujin
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 584
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Using slower move for rush stopper, will never works.
To stop an opponent that rush in, u need either a fast move or moves with good evasive properties.
ff+3 is good to pressure opponent, but not for stopping rush in.
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TorqueStomp
4th Dan
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Posts: 40
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
When they're rushing in from a long range, IE after being Knocked back a ways.. It seems way more whiff-punishable than it is, and I've baited a lot of juggles out of people going in for a very punishable move to punish my move. Especially when they side-roll it and go for low wake-up kick. Free low-parry for me.
I use it all the time. My friend that I play all the time just started guarding it. He's an 80% avenger on PSN with Steve. It still gets him a good amount of times. It's all about knowing when they're likely to expect it or not..you have to have mix-ups to keep them guessing. For instance, when they expect FF3 out of me because I've already done it, I'll do a D,D/F,F1 or 2 or I'll do FF2 for speed. My favorite move is FF1+2, it's so slow they try to interrupt it too late, or it'll catch a backdash.
Doesn't matter that it hits, just that it keeps them guessing and thus thinking about Defense more than Offense. 9/10 times you lose because your opponent was thinking clearly about his offense, and had little need to think defense because he had YOU on defense the whole time. Like Adipati says, it's easier to crack a shell than make it.

Last edited by TorqueStomp on Sep 17th, 2011 at 00:31

wooden-man
Fujin
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 584
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
ff+3 is a slow move to begin with, it about 33frame in speed
If ff+3 gets to land, means that u can get launcher like f+3,4 for better option.
It never a good option to stop pit bull, due to the risk VS reward factor

However, it might very well works good in PSN
Due to the lag, many time the players cannot truly play with their reaction or reflexes.
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OffInBed
TEKKEN CHICKEN
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
I couldn't say it any better than Wooden-man. If you could land a ff3 you might as well have done f3.,4.

I only use ff3 in situations where I know my opponent has no other option than to block. For example


B!, f3,4> dash > b3~4 > BT 3.

It's not perfect, if they get up and do a WS 4 most likely you'd get hit. However, if they don't feel comfortable attacking straight from oki, it's really hard to get away from. I'd still only do something like that if a wall was near by. Not something you want to use a lot to be honest. But then again I don't really use ff3 at all often.
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TorqueStomp
4th Dan
Joined: Sep 2011
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
This game is more about mind games than maxing out juggle damage. You notice high-end matches don't often involve 80+dmg combos? It's about follow-ups. FF3 puts you in more of an advantageous position than a silly juggle would. Besides which, it baits them in further, whereas the instant they see you start up F3, they'll slam B and guard..I see it all the time. It's why I stopped using F3,4. They see FF3 and they think they can interrupt because it's so slow, then it turbo finishes the animation.

Maybe it's just my play-style, but I love the mind-games aspect. If you just love throwing out cookie-cutter juggles then that's your thing. I usually just do random juggles for funsies as opposed to max damage juggles. I mix them up, it opens up different oki options, and makes escaping the same move different thus they'll try to escape it like before and still be hit..then they don't understand how to get out of it. Keeping the opponent alert and guessing is #1 for me. Not just cookie-cutter juggle, and then obvious oki follow-up options that they have now come to learn how to observe and escape.

There is no best option for everyone. People play best when the style they employ is most suited to their own persona. I know the initial post involves my own opinions, but you'll notice I am quite clear about this. They are my opinions. They are the frosting of the facts.

You guys are by no means, in my opinion, wrong. I believe in many scenarios you're right. I also believe I'm right in other scenarios. There are no all-encompassing right or wrongs. I am glad for your input, it is definitely a step forward in the progression of this thread, I appreciate it.

Also note: F3,4 is unsafe, whereas FF3 is safe+. Of course we'd all like to replace the moves that do hit with a more powerful move / juggle..but we cannot employ moves retroactively.
THE SCRUB ZILLA
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
I find mixing it up with d+b3, d+2 (with SS+4), WS1 is pretty effective. I even throw in d+f3 or WS+3 if I notice that they think I might try a d+b3 or a ss+4. Which is cool because Feng can pull of a decent juggle with d+F3 (on most characters). It plays some decent mindgames with the opponent and makes them feel pressured as well.
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Lord Omega
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
df 1+2, qcf 1+2 uf+2 db+3. lather, and repeat.
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THE SCRUB ZILLA
Raijin
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Lord Omega
df 1+2, qcf 1+2 uf+2 db+3. lather, and repeat.


hell yeah. It annoys people to no end. If anyone thinks Feng has to resort to turtling only is sadly mistaken.
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Kiwi
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
I agree with the pressuring part. Because this game dont reward turtles but reward offensive players. If the character is more turtle based, than its automatic mid tier.

I dont know about the ff3. It just seems to me that there are better alternatives out there.
It being so slow and shit and non tracking, you have a low chance of pulling it off anyway. If you succeed, you can spam other moves sure but thats IF_YOU_SUCCEED.

Its best to use it post B! imo.
This is one of the problems I have with Feng. His moves are so gimped. Namco doesnt give a shit.
THE SCRUB ZILLA
Raijin
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kiwi
I agree with the pressuring part. Because this game dont reward turtles but reward offensive players. If the character is more turtle based, than its automatic mid tier.

I dont know about the ff3. It just seems to me that there are better alternatives out there.
It being so slow and shit and non tracking, you have a low chance of pulling it off anyway. If you succeed, you can spam other moves sure but thats IF_YOU_SUCCEED.

Its best to use it post B! imo.
This is one of the problems I have with Feng. His moves are so gimped. Namco doesnt give a shit.


Feng is a great character. You should be happy as well that Feng seems even better in aTTT2.
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Kiwi
Shihan
Joined: May 2011
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#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by THE SCRUB ZILLA
Feng is a great character. You should be happy as well that Feng seems even better in aTTT2.


Thats _IF_ he got improved. Which it doesnt seem to be the case.

I would wager that an equally skilled Lars vs an equally skilled Feng the odds would be in favor of Lars.
I would even go as far as to say that 8 out 10 matches, Lars will win.

Just watch a few youtube TTT2 videos man. Game is still highly favoring offensive characters and juggles still take half your energy bar. That means if a turtle like Feng whiffs...well say bye bye to half your life bar.

The only progress they made, is removing the insane wall follow ups for most characters and by enlarging most stages. I say most cos small stages are still there.

Although I have to say that watching justinwong play Feng, Feng doesnt seem that bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2i8...feature=related

But Julia still scary as hell and its mostly Jack6 anyway. I wonder how much of those wins were really contributed by Feng. Cos imo it seemed more like 65% jack, 35% Feng to me.

Edit @3:40
Did Fengs shoulder just take out something like 30% health bar? Holy shit return of the shoulder?
@12:28 wtf? close to 60-65% damage?

Fengs juggles are still shit damage though.

Last edited by Kiwi on Oct 1st, 2011 at 10:29

THE SCRUB ZILLA
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
If Feng stays the same as he did in T6 I wont complain. I get along just fine against other characters. There are a few TTT2 matches of a Feng player that some of us have uploaded around here and believe it or not he was holding it down. From watching the video Feng hasn't really lost anything at all to be honest but he has gained more mixups. I personally dont want people flocking to Feng.

Some say he's easy to use but that's a half truth that will only stretch but so far. To execute his moves compared to other characters is simple. But to execute his moves properly compared to others takes a hell of a lot more skill. His moves get easy to read after a moment so a proper understanding of his moveset to mix people up is necessary.That's why many who pick Feng up begin to realize after some time which is why not that many people use him. Feng is actually pretty decent in T6. He's no S tier but he's far from helpless against a Lars, Nina, or Law for that matter. Feng just takes more dedication.

If TTT2 gives me a T6 Feng with more mixups I'd be perfectly ok.
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retsu_himura
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#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kiwi
I agree with the pressuring part. Because this game dont reward turtles but reward offensive players. If the character is more turtle based, than its automatic mid tier.

I dont know about the ff3. It just seems to me that there are better alternatives out there.
It being so slow and shit and non tracking, you have a low chance of pulling it off anyway. If you succeed, you can spam other moves sure but thats IF_YOU_SUCCEED.

Its best to use it post B! imo.
This is one of the problems I have with Feng. His moves are so gimped. Namco doesnt give a shit.

Actually the game still favors turtle.
But of course player need to have good reaction to be good turtle.
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Kiwi
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#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by retsu_himura
Actually the game still favors turtle.
But of course player need to have good reaction to be good turtle.


Not really. Unless youre one of those players that know every characters moves and weaknesses. And even than, people can still mix up.

Only few people can play that way man. Lets be realistic here. How many people have perfect defense?

Also, you guys need to check out the character rankings of TTT2. So far, Feng is only listed as C tier. I knew it! I have been saying that half a year ago and people here attacked me for it. Who is laughing now. It was obvious from the start. If you truly know Feng in and out, you will know he received very little boosts to cover his lacks.

Look, I welcome the higher damage from the shoulder (not final yet, other videos Ive seen showed PITIFULL shoulder damage). But lets be realistic here yea. That is not gonna make up for the fact that Feng has low damage and tiny range and has trouble punishing other characters.

You realize how weak C is?

Last edited by Kiwi on Oct 1st, 2011 at 19:42

THE SCRUB ZILLA
Raijin
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#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kiwi
Not really. Unless youre one of those players that know every characters moves and weaknesses. And even than, people can still mix up.

Only few people can play that way man. Lets be realistic here.

Also, you guys need to check out the character rankings of TTT2. So far, Feng is only listed as C tier. I knew it! I have been saying that half a year ago and people here attacked me for it. Who is laughing now. It was obvious from the start. If you truly know Feng in and out, you will know he received very little boosts to cover his lacks.

Look, I welcome the higher damage from the shoulder (not final yet, other videos Ive seen showed PITIFULL shoulder damage). But lets be realistic here yea. That is not gonna make up for the fact that Feng has low damage and tiny range and has trouble punishing other characters.



Feng doesn't have trouble punishing other characters. He's my best character and I've yet to run into a situation that I had an issue with punishing. You seems like you want Feng to become an A tier/upper B tier character but its not going to happen. My main concern was that he would lose his properties on U+F2, Tech trap among other things. Since I know that hasn't happened it really all good to me. I've had guys swear up and down that Feng wasn't low tier although I'll gladly tell them that he is. The new mixups are great and should his new shoulder smash have massive damage thats simply an added bonus. But I think you're overreacting about him. I felt like complaining about Feng for a minute but after a while I'm comfortable with him against any character.
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