Paul Tekken 6 Frame Data

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MackMcTekken
1st Dan
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15
From: USA New York
#21 “Quote” Edit Post
im sorry for such a newbish question...but im new to tekken(well havent played competitive ever)...so i was wondering what exactly does all this frame data mean?
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Runemaster
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1621
From: Indonesia
#22 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by MackMcTekken
im sorry for such a newbish question...but im new to tekken(well havent played competitive ever)...so i was wondering what exactly does all this frame data mean?


If you're new to Tekken then you don't have to learn frame data right away.
Feel the game first, mess around with the movelist in the practice mode, spar with a friend, etc.

Then, when you want to learn more about the game, learn frame data.
Tekken runs on frames. 60 frames per second.
Example, a move like Paul's d+4 takes 15 frames to execute, and is -33 frames on block. (frame disadvantage).

That means if the opponent blocks d+4, then Paul has to recover for 33 frames long before he can block again. The opponent then has several options to do guaranteed damage to Paul in this 33 frames period. As long as the move takes less than 33 frames to execute, it will hit.

Not only limited in punishing, you can also set up a nice strategy and pressure game if you learn frame data.
Onizuk@
Legend
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 508
From: Germany
#23 “Quote” Edit Post
@Runemaster: That's true, but the most annoying thing is to study all the moves of the new characters like Miguel, Bob, Lars <- time consuming...

I've never faced sb. who used any reversals during online battles. Since T3 it was much easier to predict which move the oppenent will use. Sometimes I even chickened them, but in T6 it's getting too risky (many, many new moves; bound system).-> So low parrys are getting more important.
What do you think?
MackMcTekken
1st Dan
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15
From: USA New York
#24 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Runemaster
If you're new to Tekken then you don't have to learn frame data right away.
Feel the game first, mess around with the movelist in the practice mode, spar with a friend, etc.

Then, when you want to learn more about the game, learn frame data.
Tekken runs on frames. 60 frames per second.
Example, a move like Paul's d+4 takes 15 frames to execute, and is -33 frames on block. (frame disadvantage).

That means if the opponent blocks d+4, then Paul has to recover for 33 frames long before he can block again. The opponent then has several options to do guaranteed damage to Paul in this 33 frames period. As long as the move takes less than 33 frames to execute, it will hit.

Not only limited in punishing, you can also set up a nice strategy and pressure game if you learn frame data.


great explanation...i appreciate it a lot...im not really new new to tekken..im just new to the whole competitive part of it...like i pretty much know all of pauls moves memorized..i also have 4 or 5 juggles and a couple wall combos i can use well...but online the lag is absolutely ridicilous sometimes so its not even fun
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Paul_Hamdali
Champion
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 269
From: Indonesia
PSN: Maurice_Phoenix
#25 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Onizuk@
@Runemaster: That's true, but the most annoying thing is to study all the moves of the new characters like Miguel, Bob, Lars <- time consuming...

I've never faced sb. who used any reversals during online battles. Since T3 it was much easier to predict which move the oppenent will use. Sometimes I even chickened them, but in T6 it's getting too risky (many, many new moves; bound system).-> So low parrys are getting more important.
What do you think?


Well that the replay value of TEKKEN is ^^
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mooyang90
Shihan
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 109
From: USA California
XBL: mooyang90
#26 “Quote” Edit Post
Might be silly question, but how come Paul's deathfist has two values for frame disavantage on block? One's -15 and the other is -17...is it like a EWGF? I always assumed it was unpunishable...

Pardon my newbness lol but the difference in frames is so important to an Asuka player like me...-17 means I get a 50% juggle. -15 means I get shit (especially with all that pushback).
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Sharog
Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 192
From: Netherlands
PSN: Sharog
#27 “Quote” Edit Post
on range 1 it is -15, range 2 is -17, range 3 depends. it is free juggle for some of the casts with long range launchers, so use with caution
mooyang90
Shihan
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 109
From: USA California
XBL: mooyang90
#28 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Sharog
on range 1 it is -15, range 2 is -17, range 3 depends. it is free juggle for some of the casts with long range launchers, so use with caution


What is it meant by ranges? I thought the distance you get pushed back when you block it doesn't change.
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Sharog
Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 192
From: Netherlands
PSN: Sharog
#29 “Quote” Edit Post
range 1 means 1 character distance from urself towards ur opponent, on close range DF it gives a clean hit, that is when it is -15.

although ofc with range 2 DF i mean if u hit it from that range without delaying the input so u end up right in his face..
BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6771
From: Italy
PSN: BlackPriest_ITA
#30 “Quote” Edit Post
I made a document with Paul's complete frame data (including generic moves such as d/f+2 etc.) from Ina Tekken Wiki.

In case you don't know this already, Ina uses different notations for the moves:
LP = left punch
RP = right punch
LK = left kick
RK = right kick
WP = both punches
WK = both kicks

Directionals correspond to the numbers of the num pad:
1 = d/b
2 = d
3 = d/f
4 = b
6 = f
7 = u/b
8 = u
9 = u/f

Last edited by BlackPriest on Jun 15th, 2010 at 19:13

StreamerX
1st Dan
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 13
From: Switzerland
PSN: StreamerX
#31 “Quote” Edit Post
@ BlackPriest and the other active Paul-specialists here

The first I want to say: I respect your arduous efforts regarding Paul in Tekken! It is the one and only character I have ever played since Tekken 3 and my absolutely main! So I want to thank you for your great job!!!

Now to my problem:
I have downloadet your framelist file. But there are some notations I don't understand. This is a list of abbreviations there is no way to find some informations:

KBD =
UFD =
KFD =
KMD =
KZD =
AZD =
MU =
YD =
FD =
YRD =
KMTD =
(SM) =
SBD =
TKU =
TKUD =

So please, can you explain what these abbreviations mean?
Thx in advance.
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Paul_Hamdali
Champion
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 269
From: Indonesia
PSN: Maurice_Phoenix
#32 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by StreamerX
@ BlackPriest and the other active Paul-specialists here

The first I want to say: I respect your arduous efforts regarding Paul in Tekken! It is the one and only character I have ever played since Tekken 3 and my absolutely main! So I want to thank you for your great job!!!

Now to my problem:
I have downloadet your framelist file. But there are some notations I don't understand. This is a list of abbreviations there is no way to find some informations:

KBD =
UFD =
KFD =
KMD =
KZD =
AZD =
MU =
YD =
FD =
YRD =
KMTD =
(SM) =
SBD =
TKU =
TKUD =

So please, can you explain what these abbreviations mean?
Thx in advance.


You can check the legend area
Signature "I'm Going For The Gold"
"You Have The Right To Remain Sexy"
BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6771
From: Italy
PSN: BlackPriest_ITA
#33 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by StreamerX
@ BlackPriest and the other active Paul-specialists here

The first I want to say: I respect your arduous efforts regarding Paul in Tekken! It is the one and only character I have ever played since Tekken 3 and my absolutely main! So I want to thank you for your great job!!!

Now to my problem:
I have downloadet your framelist file. But there are some notations I don't understand. This is a list of abbreviations there is no way to find some informations:

KBD =
UFD =
KFD =
KMD =
KZD =
AZD =
MU =
YD =
FD =
YRD =
KMTD =
(SM) =
SBD =
TKU =
TKUD =

So please, can you explain what these abbreviations mean?
Thx in advance.


Greetings from the other side of the Alps (northernmost region of Italy) and thanks for the Kudos. I'm sure everybody contributing here appreciates them.

The abbreviations in the japanese frame datas often don't corrispond to the TZ legend/notation, they just describe a certain stun_knockdown_kockback_juggle animation.

I tried to explain them a little below:

KBD = a low that trips the opponent; sometimes guarantees free hits (e.g. d+4_qcf+1+2_CH qcb+3_CH qcf+3)
UTD = knocks down face first; doesn?t allow a tech roll and gives great oki usually (e.g. qcb+1)
KFD/KMD= knocks them away without giving free hits afterwards; usually such hits power wall splat though (e.g. qcf+2)
KZD = makes them suffer a stun where they fall to the ground in front of you; acts as a combo starter (b+3_CH b+2_CH (2,)3 )
AZD = causes a stun where the opponent stumbles back taking a few steps and then falls to the ground; gives a combo if you dash up (e.g. CH (3,)2 )
MU = juggle starter that launches them in the air face down feet away (e.g. WS+2)
YD = knocks them away without giving free hits afterwards (e.g. b+2 non CH)
FD = knocks them away and leaves with their feet in the air for a little time when they?re already on the ground (animation looks similar to a B!); doesn?t allow a tech roll and requires them to roll back to escape followups (e.g. qcb+2_b,f+1_u/f+2)
YRD = makes them suffer an escapable stun where they must tap f to escape the stun (e.g. CH d/f+4_CH (d/f+3,)4 )
KMTD = knocks them away giving free hits afterwards; requires you to dash before the combo usually (e.g. CH SS 1)
(SM) = makes them suffer a stun where they fall back and immediately stand up; requires them to tech (so that they don't get straight up automatically) to avoid followups (e.g. (f+2,3,)1 )
SBD = knocks them away without giving free hits afterwards; usually such hits power wall splat though (e.g. b+1+2)
TKU = launches and makes them do a frontflip in the air (e.g. (f+2,)2 )
TKUD = knocks them away without giving free hits afterwards; animation makes them do a backflip (e.g. f+1+2)

Hope it helps.
Nameless03
Legend
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 530
From: Singapore
#34 “Quote” Edit Post
Whoa, I have to say that list is very useful. I've seen those notations a lot in the Japanese frame data, and it's nice to finally know what they mean. Is this all the notations they use, or is there a more complete list I can find somewhere?
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BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6771
From: Italy
PSN: BlackPriest_ITA
#35 “Quote” Edit Post
Bare in mind however these are explanations I wrote, some of them might not be 100 % accurate.

There's a few more, the ones above are just the ones in Pauls frame data.

Here's the complete list:

http://wiki.livedoor.jp/inatekken/d...%ce%ce%ac%be%ce

Last edited by BlackPriest on Apr 6th, 2010 at 20:26

StreamerX
1st Dan
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 13
From: Switzerland
PSN: StreamerX
#36 “Quote” Edit Post
@ BlackPriest

Thank you for you explanation regarding the notations. I have just laughed about your Link to INA-Tekken, because my japanese is a little bit rustet or respectively non-existent
So I think these for Paul are enough for me! ... I send you a PM and i hope you recived!

THX.
BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6771
From: Italy
PSN: BlackPriest_ITA
#37 “Quote” Edit Post
You're welcome.

Lol, I don't speak Japanese at all, and internet translating tools are completely useless unless you're searching for a laugh.
For the explanations I just checked the different INA abbreviations and cross-checked them with other chars and the respective stun_knockdown_juggle animations to understand them.

Last edited by BlackPriest on Apr 17th, 2010 at 08:22

Stuyvesant
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1007
From: South Africa
#38 “Quote” Edit Post
What are the frames on ff+3,4? InaTekken and friends all seem to put it at around 15, but I don't see how that's possible.
I was trying to punish Law's ws+2 with ff+3,4 but it just won't hit. I know in the punishment thread, Ogre put down qcf+2_b+1,2_d+1+2 as the punishment for this move. Law's WS+2 is -17 or -18. Am I just really slow on my ff+3,4 or is the frame data wrong on this move?
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BlackPriest
Expulsion of Fury
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6771
From: Italy
PSN: BlackPriest_ITA
#39 “Quote” Edit Post
f,f+3,4 is takes 15 frames to come out only if you buffer the 1st f during the block and input a perfect f:3,4 immeadiately after the block recovery.
The problem is, by doing so f,f+3,4 has only little more range than your u/f+3,4 for example. To get a longer dash you can delay the 3,4 input, but then again it will take considerably more frames to come out.

Thats why I stated deathfist, b+1,2 and d+1+2 as the punishers for Law's WS+2. It could be possible to punish it with a perfect buffered f,f:3,4 on a close range block, but then again that would be so hard to do consistently for a human that you should better punish it with the given punishers in order not to miss out any damage.

---

EDIT: Edited 1st post.

Last edited by BlackPriest on Jun 9th, 2010 at 19:51

Keshtath
Legend
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 536
From: USA Washington
PSN: Keshtath
XBL: Keshtath
#40 “Quote” Edit Post
I've converted the spread sheet to it is formatted the same as the tz move list page.
Could we update the good spreadsheet with the new version?

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