TTT2 Baek Set-ups, Mix-ups and Strats

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CaCarmen
Iron Fist God
Joined: May 2010
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From: China
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#41 “Quote” Edit Post
First of all thanks for the link to the Jung Pa Dak video, he's very good. Learned a lot.

Hwo's RFF2,4f is launch punishable if ducked though... I mean, no one will duck Hwo in RFF, lol. I think uf3+4,3 is actually -2 on hit? I could be wrong. Though there is a new 14f punisher in the form of df4,3, which is the same damage and plus a decent amount.

I guess listening to the explanation, Hwo vs Baek does seem like Hwo would have an easier time. But yeah, Tekken is not SF, thankfully. Plus we get two characters now.
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Mr.Taliban
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#42 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Marin
You are right, but if your opponent attacks after a move with big + frames on hit (ws+4,4,3~f is +5/+6 on hit) then I'd say he's playing way more aggressive than your average player. Against those types of players, you can just keep them in + frames constantly and win with perfects every round. Your average player is more likely not to take that risk so he'd be more defensive. That's why you can keep that in mind as a _general_ rule of thumb and you should always figure out your opponents individual blocking habits.


WS+443~f is +5/+6? I thought they nerfed it because it happened to me when ws 443~f hit and I knew he was going to do lee WS 33 so I did 433~f and our moves clashed. Back then I assumed WS 443 is +1 on hit. Not sure if I was just slow inputting but Im pretty sure it happened a couple of times that I became so greedy and did 22 every after ws+443~f. LOL.
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Budding Fighter
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#43 “Quote” Edit Post
I was watching Inca's guide to punishing Baek (Inca is a VERY good Yoshi player and a mod here) and I noticed something. NSS Flash (i8 regular hit juggle starter, too bad it has really bad range) stops a lot of Baek's rushdown, right? Well if you go into FLA and you hold b, you GET OUT of NSS flash's range. Pretty much all the time. ESPECIALLY off of moves such as 4,3,3~f; 2,3; 1,2,3,3,3~f (I am starting to heart this BTW; it seems that in a clutch FLA pressure situation people can't duck it due to nerves or whatever) and other moves that when you're in FLA, are next to 0 or are 0 on block.
Real good news if the local Yoshi player is a Flash whore; though holding b in FLA will get you killed because he can do df+2,2 in 1SS or df+2 in NSS and take, like, half your life.

@Marin and Mr Taliban Thanks for you input in FLA pressure guys. Extremely valuable info. I'm trying to link all of the info and create a table of contents; should be done by the end of this week.

@CaCarmen I believe uf+3+4,3 (I don't know if it's uf+3+4,4 or uf+3+4,3; for -14 I always do uf+3+4,3+4 so I'm not entirely sure haha) of Hwoarang is +1 on hit now.
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
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CaCarmen
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#44 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah it is uf3+4,3, typo on my part. Though ironically I also do uf+3+4,3+4, lol. And nice eyes, it is plus one! That's great, it definetly used to be minus I recall. I guess thats the trade off for being -14 or something now.

Inca updated the punish bible? I'm going to have to take a look. And yes, you're right about using FLA b (Flamingo Steppin'!) to get away from flash, I've done it with Hwo against Xiaoyu (b1)/Yoshi's. Baek's FLA backstep is actually MUCH further than Hwo's, so there may even be other moves that one can avoid (Feng's b1? maybe?)
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Budding Fighter
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#45 “Quote” Edit Post
That is some great info.

I've revamped the guide and polished it up a decent amount. I still need some help in FLA mindgames (though I could pretty much say that FLA mindgames = pressing a bunch of buttons without caring about the world and grabbing a bunch of times), so if someone could help me out it'd help a lot.
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Toki
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#46 “Quote” Edit Post
Great guide. I haven't finished it yet but has it been noted that he can do his f,f (f,f+3; f,f+4,3) moves right after going back to normal standing from FLA? Same with Hwo.
CaCarmen
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#47 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Toki
Great guide. I haven't finished it yet but has it been noted that he can do his f,f (f,f+3; f,f+4,3) moves right after going back to normal standing from FLA? Same with Hwo.


Not just ff moves, you can interestingly also do b,b moves (mainly Baek's b,b2 or a normal backdash) with FLA (automatically cancelled) b. Can't seem to cancel into CD with just d,df, unfortunetly.
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Toki
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#48 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Toki
Great guide. I haven't finished it yet but has it been noted that he can do his f,f (f,f+3; f,f+4,3) moves right after going back to normal standing from FLA? Same with Hwo.


To be more accurate, he can do his f,f moves with just f ie. f,f+3 becomes just f+3 right after returning to standing from FLA like f is buffered.
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#49 “Quote” Edit Post
Noted. I knew you could do that off of 2,3, but not off of other moves. Thanks!
Can you do HH that way though? Like, 1,2,3~f, recover from FLA, HH?
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
CaCarmen
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#50 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Toki
To be more accurate, he can do his f,f moves with just f ie. f,f+3 becomes just f+3 right after returning to standing from FLA like f is buffered.


Yeah, its the same as Hwo's LFS cancel. The FLA cancel gives a free f/b input, so you can press a single f for ff moves and single b for bb moves.

HH is a single button press so I don't know if its neccessery.
Signature "老外的LEI很烦人了"
"还是换人吧"
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Toki
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#51 “Quote” Edit Post
Actually, can you do fff moves too? I've never tried it with f,f,n 3~FLA too. If it is, that'd be killer.
CaCarmen
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#52 “Quote” Edit Post
Yea, you can do the WR3 with just f,f3 (though it seems like a little distance is needed). Doesn't work with the wr slides/cross chops... for the better I suppose, since that's all I'd do.

I think they changed the command for f,f,n3? Either that or got rid of the move. It doesn't work off u3+4f. Interesting that certain FLA transitions (b3, 2,3, db3+4~bb) allow you to do it, but others (df4,4,3f, 1,2,3f) don't.... So far it seems transitions without a forward input give you the free f/b input on leaving FLA.
Signature "老外的LEI很烦人了"
"还是换人吧"
"你心中怨念深重,怒火冲天门。导致你铁拳技能急速下降"
"我早就说过,你换几个普通角色你就发现你也很弱。。 "
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Budding Fighter
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#53 “Quote” Edit Post
ff,n,3 = u+3+4.
Yeah I was wondering about that too. Really weird.
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
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#54 “Quote” Edit Post
For wall pressure I got something. It requires a certain degree of execution.
1,1 on hit ---> iWR 3.
I like to whore 1,1 on the wall, right? When it hits, I like to do iWR 3 (slash kick). If they hit buttons to get out of it, f+4,3 will hit CH (W!; Xiaoharu's b+1, Kuni's perfect knee and Yoshi flash will interrupt you) or you can do just magic 4 to W!. If they don't hit buttons, iWR 3 on block is +9, which is the same situation. On block, if you time it right, the opponent can't step the slash kick. If the opponent will stand there, iWR 3~f for more mind rape.
You can also do iWR 3 (or you could do df+3~f but you risking CH GU 3) after the following wall combo:
W! B!, iFLA f+3, standing 4, d+4,4
Solid wall pressure FTW.
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Marin
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#55 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Budding Fighter
For wall pressure I got something. It requires a certain degree of execution.
1,1 on hit ---> iWR 3.
I like to whore 1,1 on the wall, right? When it hits, I like to do iWR 3 (slash kick). If they hit buttons to get out of it, f+4,3 will hit CH (W!; Xiaoharu's b+1, Kuni's perfect knee and Yoshi flash will interrupt you) or you can do just magic 4 to W!. If they don't hit buttons, iWR 3 on block is +9, which is the same situation. On block, if you time it right, the opponent can't step the slash kick. If the opponent will stand there, iWR 3~f for more mind rape.
You can also do iWR 3 (or you could do df+3~f but you risking CH GU 3) after the following wall combo:
W! B!, iFLA f+3, standing 4, d+4,4
Solid wall pressure FTW.

iWR3 is pretty good, but 1,1 is +9 on hit and iWR3 is at least 25 frames. So lots of stuff can interrupt it.
Signature TTT2 Baek & Leo Combo Vid
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Originally posted by Budding Fighter
Keep guessing, till my db+3,3~f damage accumulates, idiot.
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#56 “Quote” Edit Post
But if they're going to be pressing buttons to try and interrupt your iWR 3, you have so much other stuff that will rape them. Standing 4, b+4, df+2, 1+2,4, or if your iFLA is truly instant, iFLA f+3 (FLA f+3 on CH gives free FLA f+4 W! BTW; the CH stun gives him +19).
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
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#57 “Quote” Edit Post
12) Baek and the tag system

Baek doesn't REALLY fit into the tag system extremely well (not as well as Mishimas at the very least). He doesn't have a really good tag launcher. The string tag launchers are ass in open ground play and rather situational. iFLA uf+3 is a decent mid-close range whiff punisher. SS 3+4 is only good if you SS something, but is solid if hits (does as much damage as an EWGF). CD+3 is his 'electric' and primary whiff punisher (too bad it's launch punishable). If db+2 was taggable and didn't give that weird launch (combo off axis really unreliable) it'd have made his whiff punishment a bit safer and better at mid-long range, but oh well.

Red life Removal

Baek isn't like Nina/Bruce/Forest Law/Paul/Mishimas who can tag out of their primary launchers using their tag launchers right after those launchers. He can, however, tag out on the end of his combos in the following situations:
- Post B!, you can 3+4~f FLA uf+3. However the juggle has to have 4 hits before bound including the bound move; (launch) ff+4,3, dash jab, f+4,3~f,B!, 3+4~f FLA uf+3 seems to be max damage in this situation.
- staple juggle, B!, iFLA uf+3_CD+3 (strictly for tagging out in open space)
Good luck trying to do your wall combos from there though.
These examples are a lot more distance related, but:
(Launch), d+3,3,n+3~5
(Launch), 4,3,3~f, FLA uf+3~5
(Launch), ff+4,3, dash 2,3, FLA uf+3~5
(Launch), 4,3,3~f, 3+4~f, FLA uf+3~5
(Launch), ff+4,3, dash 2,3, 3+4~f FLA uf+3~5
can be used as taggable wall carry. (In the above examples instead of ff+4,3 you can use 4,3,3~f, but that's obviously less damage) Though those combos are not his best wall carry by any means, tag combos and taking red life is so important in this game.
After a W!, you can do 3+4~f FLA uf+3~5 to tag out after the wall combo; ie, if you did a taggable launcher with your, you can do the following combo:
(Launch)~5, ff+4,3, dash 4,3,3~f FLA 3,3~f 3+4~f db+2 W! ff+3 B! 3+4~f FLA uf+3~5 and return to the original character.
That was full red bar damage and it was pretty hellacious damage. Followups very much depending on opponent.

After TA's you can end with df+3+4 or HH (provided the TA filler pops the character up high enough) but you can also try iFLA uf+3 or dash jab, dash CD+3 to try and tag out.
In all these situations it's really difficult and situational being able to get a full wall combo.

When trying to tag in Baek though, since 4,3,3~f picks up really low (I'm talking 3-ring-circus low; too bad it's range is pretty terrible in that aspect), it's really good. He can pick up off of triple electrics (don't know why you'd want to though, triple electrics into Baek 4,3,3~f doesn't bound incredibly consistently if at all); Lars f+1+2, db+2~f, SE 3~5 etc easy. He can pick up off of Feng launch, f+4~5, which is really good (it's axis dependent though).

Tag Assault

TA Fillers
Baek's pretty versatile when it comes to TA filling. He's got options for different number of hits, a couple for a lot of hits.
Midscreen:
uf+3,4,3 for damage (hits after a lot of hits)
ff+4,3 for pop up TA - ie easy mode airgrab followups (hits after 6-7 hits)
uf,n,3,3,3~f 3+4~f 1+2,4 - when you B! early; can add a FLA 3,3~f if B! is too early (hits only post 3 hits)
1+2,4 - spike filler for when there's too much hits; weak damage (hits after a lot of hits)
u+4,3 - stronger and easier version of ff+4,3 (hits after no more than 4 hits)
3+4~f FLA uf+3 for another easy mode iSW filler (hits after no more than 3 hits)
At the wall:
iFLA f+3, FLA f+3, d+4,4>4 - his strongest filler, works only if one hit at the wall (requires instant b+3~f+3, so very hard; can replace the first FLA f+3 with 2,3 for easier filler but less damage); the d+4 needs to hit for 60%, and can delay the last hit for regular scaling or grounded scaling depending on how you want to end the combo.
iFLA f+3, d+4,4>4 - if the B! was two hits (can replace iFLA f+3 for 2,3 for easy mode but less damage); the d+4 needs to hit at 60%, and can delay the last hit for regular scaling or grounded scaling depending on how you want to end the combo.
f+4,4 - if the B! was three hits

TA Enders
Mostly you want to end with df+3+4 whenever you can, but here are some other options:
Midscreen:
df+3+4 - now that the hitbox is lower, it hits after a lot of things, and does unscaled damage
uf+3,4,3 - if you want to carry them to a breakable floor (requires a high float TA)
ff+4,3 - for wall carry (though you should've rather carried to the wall and TA'd then)
At the wall:
df+3+4 - again, unscaled damage is good. It requires the last hit to be a wall scaling hit and not a grounded scaling hit.
4,4 - for spike, to break through floors.

Tag out from KND's

Whenever you get a knockdown from stuff like FLA f+4, b+4 on regular hit, 1+2,4 (if you just hit that and want to get out), df+3,4, df+3+4, f+3+4, ff+4,3, d+2, CH (d+1),4, db+2 on the side/back (it can happen on occasion, especially because of db+2's tendencies to auto SSR), 3+4, or land a f+2+3, you have the option to raw tag out safely.

There are certain knockdowns where he can get d+3,3,n+3 to float, with the possible option to tag off of it, which are:
- (f+2,1,)2 (legit combo)
- db+4 (not exactly a knockdown; full combo is possible but in tournament I wouldn't suggest risking it and tagging off of it) (legit combo)
- 1+2,4 (though you're better off doing dash 4,3,3~f if they do try and get up) (oki)

Also at the wall, after combo ending with 4,4, d+3 is guaranteed. If they tried to move, the whole d+3,3,n+3(~5) connects. If they don't move and don't tech off of the second hit, the string hits and you can tag out still. It's the equivalent of Feng's db+2,2,2 at the wall post knockdown but obviously not as good (Feng's db+2,2,2 B!'s).

This is one of the few issues a person may have with Baek; he's certainly not as flexible as Mishimas, as far as the tag system is concerned. But he's decent.

Suitable Tag Partners for Baek
In TTT2, because the game is so balanced, you can pick Baek with anyone, really, and expect to do good damage, however, some characters are obviously better than others.
Some notes about Baek as a tag partner:
- Good user of rage.
- TA fillers are good.
- Risky play (ie can lose lots of life quick if you're getting read).
- No solid tag launcher ie red life capability is kinda shitty.
- Really good pokes outside of FLA.
- Really good offensive character (has a flow to him when you're on the offense)

Some suitable partners for Baek, taking those above points in regard, are as follows (of course these are just my opinions):
Hwoarang (or Bob as I, and everyone pre Tekken-6 call him)
If you want synergy, netsu, and the cool tag combo. Also, if you're playing as Team Korea, you can flow between your characters better. Plus, Hwoarang's got better tools for each situation.
Team positioning (ie who should be the point character and who should be the secondary):
Doesn't really matter; Hwoarang's got better pokes in open field, slightly better punishing (because of b+3 and JFSR) and can open the opponent easier than Baek can, which Baek's got the better movement.
Players to watch: DooHanBaek (KOREA)

Mishimas (anyone of them, really; Heihachi, Kazuya, Devil Jin or Jinpachi; not Jin)
They're just so strong in this game, their damage is retarded, electric is the best high in the game by far (really close for best move in the game), their punishing is far, far better than Baek's (except for Heihachi against lows, because he doesn't have a launcher till about -18 which isn't 500000 justframes in one while Baek does). They can make everything into red life.
Team positioning:
Baek secondary, no doubt. Mishimas are the best point characters in the game without a doubt.

Armor King
He's just a lesser Mishima, really (Palm Upper is similar to WGF). His spacing game is really strong. b+4:1+2 is pretty good (and looks so AWESOME), cartwheels (3+4) is so strong, and there's always Palm Upper that you can put in their face if they whiff anything for half life.
Team positioning:
Armor King point; unless you REALLY want to start on point with Baek if you REALLY want that 3+4,2 TA filler.

Paul
Paul's punishing is far better than Baek in all places (standing, crouching and whiff punishing). His damage is so good. Demoman/hopkick is a scary mixup up close (and if you're good, you can get in with Paul as well as you can with Baek). Paul's df+2 is godlike (safe, taggable launcher; df+2, qcf+1~5 into combo). His range is much better IMO. Another good thing to Paul is that he can turn pretty much everything into red life with qcf+1 after every launch (except for uf+3 and ff+3 but really, if you can squeeze that in, just hopkick). Also, his hopekick is far superior than Baek's (i15 > i20). Paul also has a i14 launcher from standing (b+3), which might be something you want to consider.
Team positioning:
It depends on how you structure your team in general. If you're a guy who wants a turtle as point, go with Paul, or if you want a pitbull as the first dude, go with Baek. Both characters have good TA options and both use good range.
Players to watch: D. Porsche (KOREA)

Ganryu
Ganryu is good IMO. His punishing is good (i14 launch from standing AND crouching, i10 W!), but he's got the slowest jab in the game at i12 with his standing 1. His pokes are super strong (df+1, df+4,1, df+2, b+2,1), and his lows are good (df+3 and FC d+1 for pokes and db+2 and FC d+1+2 are useable). His FC mixup is similar to Baek's FLA mixup (pokes mixed with taggable launchers), but much safer (FC d+1 is safe on block, WS 1 is safe, WS 4 is safe and WS 2 is only -10 and is taggable). His whiff punishing is pretty good with bitch palm (f+1+2) and bitch clap (ff+1+2~5). His TA fillers are strong (df+4,1,2).
Some problems are that Ganny's oki game isn't as strong as Baek's in general, and that his movement in general is kinda worse than Baek.
Team positioning:
Depends. Ganny's punishing is pretty good and so are his standalone pokes, so if you want a punishing/poking character to start off, he's the one you're looking for. Ganny's TA fillers are better than Baek's both in the open and at the wall. Both characters can use rage well (really safe pokes + rage = happy times, plus CH b+1+2 into f+3+4 does HELLACIOUS damage on CH - 70+)

These are just my recommendations for partners for Baek. However, TTT2 is pretty balanced; everyone does hellacious damage (well maybe not Xiaoharu), and everyone have their strong points and weak points in general. Pick anyone, really (and even disregard the team positioning notes I've got above), because as long as you can find ways to make the team work, no one can stahp yewz.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Apr 27th, 2013 at 09:17

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
DAZEMAN_EXE
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 10
From: Canada
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#58 “Quote” Edit Post
I just made an account for this site, but ummm, I just came to thank you guys for making an excellent and effective guide, this has helped me A LOT! And Also, keep up the good work! BTW, Alex is also a good tag partner for Baek. And FL SS is stupid broken against my opponents. Even top players in my local community! LOL
Signature DTC!!!
Budding Fighter
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#59 “Quote” Edit Post
@DAZEMAN I would like to know why. I don't know jack about Alex. And thanks!
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
CaCarmen
Iron Fist God
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1078
From: China
PSN: cacacarmen
#60 “Quote” Edit Post
Just messing around with what tracks with Baek, maybe we can all get everything compiled together:

tracks both
f+3+4
ff+4
FLAf+3
FLAb+3

[B]tracks to Baek's left (opponent SSR_SWR)

b+4 tracks very well
[d+4],4 tracks very well
FLAuf+3 tracks very well after startup, but can be sidestepped during startup animation
d+4 tracks pretty well, gets stepped by Lili though
d+3 tracks slightly
df+1 tracks slightly, extension realigns with opponent

tracks to Baek's right (opponent SSL_SWL)
d+4 tracks very well
db+4 tracks very well, though they will probably have stepped to your back due to the slow startup...
df+2 tracks slightly

uncertain (needs more testing)
ff+3 how much of its tracking is due to the ff motion? Which side does it prominently track?
db+3 seems to be very steppable during its slow startup...
db+2 definetely steppable during startup, but seems to do a good job of catching walking opponents
FLA3

Probably a ton I'm missing, or maybe not, since Baek's tracking kind of blows... I was hoping df+4,4 would have some weird tracking to catch SS like Hwo's does (which would be great since the second hit forces crouch) but alas, it seems to not be the cse.

BTW, I don't think f+3 is 15f. It can be used to punish hopkicks, so it's at least 13, inatekken says its 12. Not that its a very good move, but because its so fast it feels like it comes out of nowhere. I throw it out once in a while. Never really understood about the low kick feint though.

Also I'm starting to feel like the hitbox on Baek's hopkick is as high as the one for his HH...
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