Jinpachi Oki?

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OffInBed
TEKKEN CHICKEN
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2221
From: USA Massachusetts
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#21 “Quote” Edit Post
OMG I'm so glad you asked.


First of all, you're friend is partially right. It's really impossible to know EXACTLY what your opponent is going to do initially. It is very possible that you make all the perfect choices in sequence. Now with Jinpachi, Ishould make a throw chart for this shit. I have oki game that really makes getting up against him super scary. It's mostly based all on his 1 and 2 throws.



1 Throw >>>>>> d/f+1 >>>id it float?


Yes>>>>>Combo time

No>>>>eep Dash and d+4

Did they tech roll immediately after d+4?


Yes >>>>> f+2 throw


No: Dash in and d+4 again! (You dash in just in case they side roll)



Then there is shit like, are they face down, feet away when you land d+4? If yes, d/b+1 after d+4 for float and combo. If not, after you whiff the d/b+1 you can either select WS+3 if you think they will roll back or you can dash forward and d+4 again.


Man...I need to take some time out and really explain my thought process for Pachi oki, it's really dirty and gets me so much damage while people struggle to tag out and stuff. But basically the significance in ALL of that is the fact that the reward is SO high and the risk is SO little. If you do this perfectly, you'll never get launched for it or anything. That's kinda how duk players are. They do all this shit that makes it really easy for them to net damage and really hard to hurt them for not guessing correctly.




I swear I'm going to make a flow chart for Pachi oki.
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sandilord
Destructive Impulse
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#22 “Quote” Edit Post
In short, oki will always be a guessing and anticipation game. I'm sure it's not possible to see what they're doing and react accordingly. It IS entirely possible to be able to read your opponent and learn their patterns and automatisms.
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tinh yeu
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#23 “Quote” Edit Post
condition them.

bronson.
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tyler2k
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#24 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by sandilord
It IS entirely possible to be able to read your opponent and learn their patterns and automatisms.
Yeah, there's a ton to pick up on by early scouting, how they react to u+4, how they react to FLY 4, how they react to f,f+3, hell how they react to f+3. The Jinpachi vortex is more about educated guesses and on the fly reactions to situations instead of what the opponent may be doing. Of course if you set up a FDFT situation and they start backrolling of course you can react with a f+2,1,1+2 or u/b+1,2.
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grumpy64
War Lord
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From: United States
#25 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by sandilord
In short, oki will always be a guessing and anticipation game. I'm sure it's not possible to see what they're doing and react accordingly. It IS entirely possible to be able to read your opponent and learn their patterns and automatisms.

Reaction OKi is very possible.
sandilord
Destructive Impulse
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#26 “Quote” Edit Post
Reaction or anticipation? If your answer is reaction, please back it up somehow.
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OffInBed
TEKKEN CHICKEN
Joined: Jan 2011
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From: USA Massachusetts
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#27 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by sandilord
Reaction or anticipation? If your answer is reaction, please back it up somehow.



Back Roll


Edit: Actually, damn not even back roll. Only way I catch people with d/f+3,1 on back roll is when I dash in really hard first, THEN I see the back roll and THEN I react. If I anticipated incorrectly, I would get get up 3 tripped
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tyler2k
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#28 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by OffInBed
Edit: Actually, damn not even back roll. Only way I catch people with d/f+3,1 on back roll is when I dash in really hard first, THEN I see the back roll and THEN I react. If I anticipated incorrectly, I would get get up 3 tripped
No, if you anticipate backroll and start to see backroll then you can catch backroll. Unfortunately wake-up options in Tekken are really fucking 1-dimensional, I think that's why they buffed wake-up 3 so it's not always launch punishable and nerfed it as it doesn't always launch at clean range.
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OffInBed
TEKKEN CHICKEN
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#29 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by tyler2k
No, if you anticipate backroll and start to see backroll then you can catch backroll. .


oh yeah, that's what I was trying to say, thanks.
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grumpy64
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#30 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by OffInBed
Back Roll


Edit: Actually, damn not even back roll. Only way I catch people with d/f+3,1 on back roll is when I dash in really hard first, THEN I see the back roll and THEN I react. If I anticipated incorrectly, I would get get up 3 tripped

I was speaking in general terms and not any particular character. U should be able react to back rolls forward rolls and side rolls and punish on reaction. In the long run good anticipation beats reaction because it allows for stronger punishes .
grumpy64
War Lord
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From: United States
#31 “Quote” Edit Post
Something really easy to reaction OK off of is pach's 2+4 throw.if they stand up do a 50/50 that kills all get up kicks. U can react if they roll on the ground roll towards u or roll away but reacting to a br with pachi is harder then reacting to one with say ogre
grumpy64
War Lord
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From: United States
#32 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by OffInBed
Back Roll


Edit: Actually, damn not even back roll. Only way I catch people with d/f+3,1 on back roll is when I dash in really hard first, THEN I see the back roll and THEN I react. If I anticipated incorrectly, I would get get up 3 tripped

Doesn't u+4 catch back rollers ? I tested it in command capture by recording ogre doing 3~4 to get on the ground. Then I held back to make him roll back and block as soon as possible. A well timed u+4 was able to catch him
forest16
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#33 “Quote” Edit Post
Jinpachi f,f+3 is amazing for oki, I spam it until they block it, or I mixup with d+3.

I use u+4 sometimes if I think they expect d+3.

Nothing wrong with playing it a bit safer with db+1 by itself as oki. I use grabs, u+4, FC df+1, lots of options after db+1.

And of course, we can't forget the infamous Skillpapi d+4 stomp. I have had opponents eat 3 in a row

grumpy64
War Lord
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Posts: 719
From: United States
#34 “Quote” Edit Post
The u+4 back roll catch only works consistently against bigs. Mainly due to the fact that you have to do it at a specific time in the roll and by the time they get there they are to far away unless they happen to be a fatty like ogre
grumpy64
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 719
From: United States
#35 “Quote” Edit Post
The u+4 back roll catch only works consistently against bigs. Mainly due to the fact that you have to do it at a specific time in the roll and by the time they get there they are to far away unless they happen to be a fatty like ogre
WangIsKhan
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 305
From: United States
#36 “Quote” Edit Post
@offinbed thanks for that throw okie chart its worked wonders!!

what are you guys doing for okie after a landed db31 against tech rollers? usually i go for a run up db31 one more again or u4 for the mix up. but i was wondering if anyone has found anything better? run up f4 maybe? idk what do yall think?
OffInBed
TEKKEN CHICKEN
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2221
From: USA Massachusetts
PSN: OffInBed
#37 “Quote” Edit Post
Sup everyone! I've discovered MORE shit for Jinpachi oki.


That flow chart I typed above? Still applies totally, just one thing to add.


You can set that WHOLE thing up after 1.2 jabs if you TELEPORT FORWARD.

1,2 jab >>> teleport forward, if they tech roll you can do 1 or two throws, if you wanna be REALLY sexy you can do the teleport throw and it somehow connects even if they tech roll. If you anticipate that they'll get straight up or stay grounded the teleport 1 (shoulder) will hit them while their grounded or blast them away for getting straight up.

You can simply mix up into mids too. If they tech roll, you'll be in good range for a f+4, d/f+1+2, d/f+4, d/f+3 strings. You're basically in a situation where all of your options are in favor and you have nothing to lose.


Here's something that's awesome about doing solo combos. At the wall, doing d/f+2,1 does JUST AS MUCH DAMAGE AND DOING D/B+3,1!!!!


What does this mean? d/f+2,1 actually gives you WAY more time to recover. What does THAT mean? You GET TO SIDE STEP AND BAIT TAG CRASHES WITH WS+2 or Step Right to dodge the TC and dash in and do u/b+1,2 FLY for FREE!!!


What happens if they don't tag crash immediately? You'll have plenty of time to lock them down at the wall with jabs, f+4s, throws, etc etc etc.


One time, I even side stepped and did a random ws3 and it somehow floated them away from the wall so I could B! lol




OKAY OKAY AND ONE LAST ONE THAT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND!




If your opponents back is to the wall and they need to tag crash to save their asses and you do FLY 4:





Wait for it







Waaaaaiiittttt for it






IF THEY FLY 4 HITS YOU CAN TELEPORT FORWARD TO GO UNDER THE TAG CRASH AND STILL HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO RUN BACK AND PUNISH FOR THE TAG CRASH!!! FUCKING BORKEN!





Oh, what if the other character has a tiny pinch of health left after the FLY 4 at the wall? You can commit to the shoulder while you're teleporting and tack on like..another chunk of 20 damage before they go.






I think I'ma make a video for all this shit. Fuck it!!!


Let me know what you guys think
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sandilord
Destructive Impulse
Joined: Jan 2005
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#38 “Quote” Edit Post
What I think: I like your enthusiasm
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Maxou_SWGA
3rd Dan
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 32
From: France
#39 “Quote” Edit Post
Very interesting ! Don't hesitate to post vids of that thing, I am studying what you're saying religiously
grumpy64
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 719
From: United States
#40 “Quote” Edit Post
Does pachi have anything guaranteed if I jump over a tech roll?

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