TTTU2 Wang Changes.....

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WangIsKhan
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 305
From: United States
#101 “Quote” Edit Post
hey guys so i know db3 has been nerfed but how bad is it? does anyone else not like the fact it puts him in full crouch? does it still trip on counter? and if so can we get anything after it? does it still have long range and weird tracking and does it still mid crush some moves? im really curious because (like so many of you guys) this has been a huge staple in my game and in my opinion his best low
Jordyce
Planet Robobear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4711
From: New Zealand
PSN: Jordyce
#102 “Quote” Edit Post
d/b+3 is no longer the powerhouse low it once was... still tracks though I don't think as well, slower, less range. Still trips on counter. Don't think anything is guaranteed, just the usual mixups, f+1+2 to hit grounded, etc. It's still just as safe, and actually does more damage, but it's 4 or so frames slower, and that puts it into that grey "somewhat seeable" area, like Miguel's d/b+1. It hurts his game not having a practically spammable low anymore (it's so easily backdashed).
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VargasTheSick
Tekken God
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1578
From: Canada
PSN: VargasTheSick
#103 “Quote” Edit Post
Yea he kinda puts his hands up for a sec before doing the move I've found, to certain players this a giveaway of making it see-able. I don't mind the FC, gives some additional options, but I'll miss the range on it. Compared to the moves they did give him though I'd take the nerf :-/.
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Jordyce
Planet Robobear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4711
From: New Zealand
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#104 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by VargasTheSick
Compared to the moves they did give him though I'd take the nerf :-/.


Overall probably wasn't worth it. The new moves are not game changers.

At the moment I'm feeling that BR Wang > TTT2 Wang. Generally speaking, Tag just doesn't work in his favor, he's not a juggler and poke damage just isn't as effective. Loss of an all-purpose low really, really hurts. Not to mention -13 is all over the show, and 1,4 just doesn't cut it.
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VargasTheSick
Tekken God
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1578
From: Canada
PSN: VargasTheSick
#105 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Jordyce
Overall probably wasn't worth it. The new moves are not game changers.

At the moment I'm feeling that BR Wang > TTT2 Wang. Generally speaking, Tag just doesn't work in his favor, he's not a juggler and poke damage just isn't as effective. Loss of an all-purpose low really, really hurts. Not to mention -13 is all over the show, and 1,4 just doesn't cut it.


Well you would know considering I've never played it lol. From the vids I saw though, I felt since lifebars have been reduced, his poking game adds up much faster. Sure you have 2 lifebars, but if you continue to poke the opponent is going to have to make a decision to tag crash, or tag out unsafely leading to a d,f+2,1. Although Wang doesn't have a great combo system, this at least lets you add someone to your team that actually is to make up for some of that loss damage.

I just felt having a very good poke heavy character, then a decent juggler is an all around good team. Of course it's better to have someone that has both, i.e - Bob or Bryan, but take what you can get I guess.
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Jordyce
Planet Robobear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4711
From: New Zealand
PSN: Jordyce
#106 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by VargasTheSick
Well you would know considering I've never played it lol. From the vids I saw though, I felt since lifebars have been reduced, his poking game adds up much faster. Sure you have 2 lifebars, but if you continue to poke the opponent is going to have to make a decision to tag crash, or tag out unsafely leading to a d,f+2,1. Although Wang doesn't have a great combo system, this at least lets you add someone to your team that actually is to make up for some of that loss damage.

I just felt having a very good poke heavy character, then a decent juggler is an all around good team. Of course it's better to have someone that has both, i.e - Bob or Bryan, but take what you can get I guess.


The two lifebars add to a greater total overall, which is the issue. Most characters can either poke or juggle for significantly higher damage than Wang. On paper he's got some of the best pokes around, but it's just harder when you need to land an extra 1-2 in a game compared to Lars or a Mishima. And setting up tag whiffs / crash punishes isn't overly easy, opponent's can usually sidestep/get frames/bait, it becomes a strategy game. b+1~3 on tag crash works, but you have to predict it, and if you predict wrong you leave yourself open.

Partners making up for partners is alright in theory, but not that great in execution. You can have one person on your team that's great at punishing, but that means nothing if Wang's the one blocking all the -13. As far as juggles go, Wang isn't good in any role other than taggable launchers (d/f+2,1 being the main one).
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WangIsKhan
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 305
From: United States
#107 “Quote” Edit Post
goddamn thats disheartening plus his nerf on WM?!?! that really hurts. well he is my main so im just going to have to work through it and rely a little bit more on jinpachi than expected. does the movement buff help wang out at all? and is WM even a good choice at this point considering that back dash, side step, duck, and break all beat out the throw? plus its only +13 now right? i thought the dash to db4,2 was hard at +15......
Jordyce
Planet Robobear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4711
From: New Zealand
PSN: Jordyce
#108 “Quote” Edit Post
Waning Moon nerf? The throw is still pretty much the same, always sort of linear... you have to set it up with +frames (b+2,1 was the old, predictable setup). People have always been able to step and duck, that's never changed. The +13 is only if you Tag, you still get run up launch the same as BR... they nerfed the +15 because it was too easy for people to just tag and hopkick, now there's an actual challenge (and d/b+4,2 was a MUCH better option than hopkick anyway, twice the damage and it's taggable).
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WangIsKhan
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 305
From: United States
#109 “Quote” Edit Post
oh i didn't know his db4,2 was taggable well than thats pretty awesome still. so than what does he have thats not taggable? just the hop kick?

also i know hes a super poke character but wouldn't that be super advantageous if hes in rage cause it seems like you get rage all the time in tag which really shouldn't be a problem (at least with wang jinpachi due to pachi's b3+4 to make space) if you're not to predictable.

at this point im just wondering how hard he is to win with i dont mind working for wins in fact i enjoy working more but is he harder to win with in tag or t6? i appreciate all of your responses as im still theory fighting waiting to get my hands on the game.
sandilord
Destructive Impulse
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2093
From: Netherlands
PSN: Sandilord
#110 “Quote” Edit Post
I had 4 hours of playtime with TTT2 and I feel Wang still has enough to keep him going like we used to in BR. db3 nerf hurts but we do have uf3 and b3 now + some minor stuff like ff1+2.
I'm positive about TTT2 Wang so far.
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Jordyce
Planet Robobear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4711
From: New Zealand
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#111 “Quote” Edit Post
Again, it's less about his move changes and more that he doesn't suit the Tag system. You can keep him going like you used to in BR, but you won't do as well. And I don't see him being too akin to solo play either (haven't tried though). Don't get me wrong, in terms of poking he still has amazing options, but the damage output...
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sandilord
Destructive Impulse
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Netherlands
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#112 “Quote” Edit Post
As you've played way more I guess you would know better. I only had a first experience which isn't very reliable. Theoratically I'd say the tagsystem isn't that bad for him. He is the only character (or Jin as well?) who can parry tagcrash. He's got a solid wallcombo in db241 that works with just about any wallcombo because the hits followup fast after eachother. He's got 3 tagbufferable launchers and a fast tagout to wallcarry if he ends juggles with db42~5.
I don't think you have to be a juggle heavy character to be able to benefit from the tagsystem even though that's the most obvious way. I do think you're right in the sense that some other characters have greater advantages but maybe Wang's specific advantages/properties aren't that bad.

And maybe I'll laugh at this post in 2 months..we'll see
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Brahma
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#113 “Quote” Edit Post
He definitely feels a little weird in TTT2. I still play him pretty much BR style as well, especially since I haven't found any TA combos that are better than his solo stuff. His wall pressure is really good still, and you can always play with someone that can launch~5 into him and let him wall carry and utilize his wall pressure game. Last time I played I was pairing him with Ganryu and trying to find a solid juggle off of f,f+1+2~5
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Jordyce
Planet Robobear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4711
From: New Zealand
PSN: Jordyce
#114 “Quote” Edit Post
Being able to parry Tag Crash doesn't mean much. It's a guessing game, TC comes in very quickly, you have to b+1 before they TC. But if they call your bluff they can potentially get a free tag in with rage (when people first play Tag they tend to TC out of fear constantly... it becomes a mind game later on when people realize just how gamechanging that rage can be). Every other character can just attempt to sidewalk a potential TC. Not as good or fast, but still launchable.

Wang's wall game is solid. He doesn't have any ridiculous stuff that I've been able to find, but it's reliable and he lays down the pressure hard. TA options are simple, basic damage. Yes, he's got carry and wall options, but they're not always there, and without them he's got very low damage. The movement makes people harder to lock down outside of walls and it's not good... BR you could keep pressure between d/f+4 and d/b+3 pretty well, but not anymore.

Who knows though, Wang could have some serious secret stuff somewhere. Hell, I'll put money on sithlord finding something. At the moment though, between the four characters I'm using, Wang is the toughest one to win with (certainly not the case in BR).


Oh, and ff+2 > magic 4.
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VargasTheSick
Tekken God
Joined: Dec 2009
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#115 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Jordyce
Being able to parry Tag Crash doesn't mean much. It's a guessing game, TC comes in very quickly, you have to b+1 before they TC. But if they call your bluff they can potentially get a free tag in with rage (when people first play Tag they tend to TC out of fear constantly... it becomes a mind game later on when people realize just how gamechanging that rage can be). Every other character can just attempt to sidewalk a potential TC. Not as good or fast, but still launchable.

Wang's wall game is solid. He doesn't have any ridiculous stuff that I've been able to find, but it's reliable and he lays down the pressure hard. TA options are simple, basic damage. Yes, he's got carry and wall options, but they're not always there, and without them he's got very low damage. The movement makes people harder to lock down outside of walls and it's not good... BR you could keep pressure between d/f+4 and d/b+3 pretty well, but not anymore.

Who knows though, Wang could have some serious secret stuff somewhere. Hell, I'll put money on sithlord finding something. At the moment though, between the four characters I'm using, Wang is the toughest one to win with (certainly not the case in BR).


Oh, and ff+2 > magic 4.


Yea I was just about to mention his ff+2 buff, that is pretty good. Again if you are good with his parry system, that can also lead to some safe tagouts if need be. Like Sandilord was saying though, coupled with rage and his good poking I can see damage adding up pretty quickly ( raged WM could pretty much take an opponent from half health, estimating 90 - 100 damage possibly ? ).

He is still one of those characters you are not going to see much of, so he could still be very viable in a tournament scene. This time though you have the option of backing him up with a more solid character. I'd considering Wang a serious wild card. If your opponent knows him, well you can fall back to your 2nd in the team, and if he doesn't know Wang, you'll be able to get away with murder.
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sandilord
Destructive Impulse
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2093
From: Netherlands
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#116 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Brahma
Last time I played I was pairing him with Ganryu and trying to find a solid juggle off of f,f+1+2~5
Ganny's ff1+2? Easy pickup with Wang's b3. I'm thinking something like Ganny ff1+2~5, Wang b3, f1, df11~5 B!, Ganny df412, Wang dash df2/running 3.
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poking starter
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#117 “Quote” Edit Post
after you end combo with d+2 it's better to sidewalk and lauch them with d/b4,2 from backturn if they tag crash

use b+1 to parry tag crash when you end combo or move with slow recovery like w! d/b2,4,1 if opponent tag crash you don't have enough frame to sidewalk


his game change because of his d/b3 got nerf

I'm not using d+2 much like BR because u/f3 got better mixup (u/f3 lead to FC game and mix up like u/f3,u/f3,u/f3 very annoying

for his FC wall game I use cc b3,4 instead of FCd/f2, ws11 or ws3,2 b3,4 is easy to hit confirm

His poking game still good with d+3,d/f3

ff1+2 is good for CH tool
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Jordyce
Planet Robobear
Joined: Aug 2006
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#118 “Quote” Edit Post
Poking knows what he's talking about (I still haven't kicked my d+2 habits). d/f+3 is getting a lot more play now that it's his longest range low, something about that low feels like it should be seeable (22f), but the animation hides it nicely. No crush sucks though.

Would probably urge people not to forget about f+3. It still has it's place, is only one frame slower, KD, can't be floated.
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VargasTheSick
Tekken God
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Canada
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#119 “Quote” Edit Post
I can see u/f+3 getting very annoying lol. It's an amazing low crush move.
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Jordyce
Planet Robobear
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4711
From: New Zealand
PSN: Jordyce
#120 “Quote” Edit Post
It's also 19~20 frames and not a high crush. In a game full of jabs, 13f mids and hopkicks, it's not spammable.

Barely ever see it low crush either.
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