Miguel - Combolist

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MCP
MCP=(0_o)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9619
From: USA California
#41 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by MCP
Back turned or side turned juggles

Tested on Ling and Drag and in all cases, b+1+2 rage art will work after S!

u/f+4, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! f,F+2,1 - 57 dam or 71 dam with rage art b+1+2
d/f+2,1, d/f+1, d/f+4,1, d/f+2,2 S! f,F+2,1 - 58 dam or 74 dam with rage art b+1+2
SAV d/f+2, d/f+1, d/f+4,1, d/f+2,2, S! f,F+2,1 66 dam or 77 dam with rage art b+1+2

So I wanted to try out S! b+3~f SAV d/f+2 to see if it would help the above situation, given the video posted.

Alas, one may quick recover or back quick roll and block SAV d/f+2, e.g.
u/f+4, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F, SAV d/f+2
At certain angles after Miguel does SSR, the toe tap "recovery kick" (d+3) would also interrupt SAV d/f+2, as the opponent's feet (if on 1P) would be facing towards the screen and the toe tap tracks a bit to their left.

d/f+2,1 d/f+1~F, SAV d/f+1, N, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F SAV d/f+2
SAV d/f+2 d/f+1~F, SAV d/f+1, N, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F SAV d/f+2

Same story if hitting on BT or ST, they can quick recover or back quick roll and block SAV d/f+2

I think SAV d+4 is guaranteed for a measly 6 damage, unless they quick stand up and it hits them BT for 20 dam with SAV d+4,3
That means, u/f+4, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2 S! b+3~F, SAV d+4 is just 57 damage guaranteed and no Oki options.

However, if they quick recover or back quick roll, S! b+3, N, d/f+2,1 will launch them BT.
u/f+4, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! b+3, N, d/f+2,1

So maybe that's the options you have to anticipate one or the other:
If you think they want to quick recover or back quick roll, do d/f+2,1, but risk whiffing a move with long recovery.
Otherwise do SAV d/f+2, but risk them blocking for a free juggle (-16~-17 on block).
Both juggle get up kicks.

SAV 2 is fast enough and will hit them if they quick get up, but doesn't hit grounded. No oki afterwards.. Doesn't juggle get up kicks.

Otherwise in this situation with BT b+3 ending a juggle:
SAV d/b+3 is just too slow and they have the option to block, but not low parry.
SAV b+2 is slower than SAV d/f+2 and can be blocked
SAV 3,3 will hit them BT if they quick get up.
SAV d/b+4 will launch them, but it's may be blocked for a juggle. Very high risk.
d/f+3,2 hits them BT if they quick get up
u/f+4 whiffs
High attacks can be ducked during quick get up or back quick roll and whiff punished, e.g. f+1+2
Signature ?\ ( ) /?
zatoichi Flash!
2nd Dan
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 24
From: United States
#42 “Quote” Edit Post
Since you mentioned my video I want to respond point by point within the confines of the setups/orientations I used: If this response is misintended then let met know.

Originally posted by MCP
Alas, one may quick recover or back quick roll and block SAV d/f+2, e.g.
u/f+4, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F, SAV d/f+2

If the opponent's head is facing towards the player, towards the camera, or opposite of the camera then they are unable to block SAV d/f+2 under all conditions except if they stand get up. Actually a better description would be that if when doing a quick back roll the opponents body seemingly levitates to turn and face you rather than getting up using their hands then they are under 1 of those 3 situations. You mention a quick back roll but if you successfully hit the b+3~f on a downed opponent then they weren't able to do a ground technique in the first place.

Originally posted by MCP
At certain angles after Miguel does SSR, the toe tap "recovery kick" (d+3) would also interrupt SAV d/f+2, as the opponent's feet (if on 1P) would be facing towards the screen and the toe tap tracks a bit to their left.

I'm unable to reproduce this. The one and only setup I use which makes the opponent's feet face the screen is the 3,4 setup which I demonstrated in the video and I can't do the toe kick after the recorded dummy hits me with b+3; it does a spinning low kick with the input. But I'm sure your right that under certain angles they can interrupt him.

Originally posted by MCP
d/f+2,1 d/f+1~F, SAV d/f+1, N, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F SAV d/f+2
SAV d/f+2 d/f+1~F, SAV d/f+1, N, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F SAV d/f+2

Same story if hitting on BT or ST, they can quick recover or back quick roll and block SAV d/f+2


I'm guessing you're launching the opponent when they are standing facing you?

Originally posted by MCP
I think SAV d+4 is guaranteed for a measly 6 damage, unless they quick stand up and it hits them BT for 20 dam with SAV d+4,3
That means, u/f+4, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2 S! b+3~F, SAV d+4 is just 57 damage guaranteed and no Oki options.

However, if they quick recover or back quick roll, S! b+3, N, d/f+2,1 will launch them BT.
u/f+4, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! b+3, N, d/f+2,1


Again, when they are standing and facing you then yes this is true.

Originally posted by MCP
SAV 2 is fast enough and will hit them if they quick get up, but doesn't hit grounded. No oki afterwards.. Doesn't juggle get up kicks.

SAV 2 imo is just as good as SAV d/f+2 in terms of covering a lot of options. Its better than SAV d/f+2 in that if the opponent does ANY offensive move or if they try to do ANY get up recovering movement INCLUDING standing (to which they can block SAV d/f+2) then they will eat 27/32 points of unscaled damage respectively. Additionally it wall splats which means you can continue a combo from a reset for insane damage. Watch @11:40 of my video and see an example of what you can do if you hit em with a SAV 2.

Originally posted by MCP
Otherwise in this situation with BT b+3 ending a juggle:
SAV d/b+3 is just too slow and they have the option to block, but not low parry.
SAV b+2 is slower than SAV d/f+2 and can be blocked
SAV 3,3 will hit them BT if they quick get up.
SAV d/b+4 will launch them, but it's may be blocked for a juggle. Very high risk.
d/f+3,2 hits them BT if they quick get up
u/f+4 whiffs
High attacks can be ducked during quick get up or back quick roll and whiff punished, e.g. f+1+2


@5:22 of the video I give a multitude of example followups after BT b+3 ender. Use any of those and you're good.
MCP
MCP=(0_o)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9619
From: USA California
#43 “Quote” Edit Post
Oops. Right there I can see the confusion. This is meant to be on a back turned or on a deeply side stepped opponent (the main application), but I also checked on standard forward facing opponents just in case.

On BT (side walk until fully BT):
u/f+4, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F, SAV d/f+2
d/f+2,1 d/f+1~F, SAV d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F SAV d/f+2
SAV d/f+2 d/f+1~F, SAV d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F SAV d/f+2

"Alas, one may quick recover or back quick roll and block SAV d/f+2"

I mean exactly this. In practice mode, set the dummy to either quick recover and block or back quick roll and block, and the SAV d/f+2 seems to be blocked when I was attempting it. Considering one can mash out b+3~f, D/F+222222 this shouldn't be a timing problem.

It not only seems SAV d/f+2 is block able, it seems block able if they simply hold B (back quick roll). So then anticipate this and use d/f+2,1 until they learn to lie still.
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zatoichi Flash!
2nd Dan
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 24
From: United States
#44 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by MCP
Oops. Right there I can see the confusion. This is meant to be on a back turned or on a deeply side stepped opponent (the main application), but I also checked on standard forward facing opponents just in case.

On BT (side walk until fully BT):
u/f+4, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F, SAV d/f+2
d/f+2,1 d/f+1~F, SAV d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F SAV d/f+2
SAV d/f+2 d/f+1~F, SAV d/f+1, d/f+2,2, S! b+3~F SAV d/f+2

"Alas, one may quick recover or back quick roll and block SAV d/f+2"

I mean exactly this. In practice mode, set the dummy to either quick recover and block or back quick roll and block, and the SAV d/f+2 seems to be blocked when I was attempting it. Considering one can mash out b+3~f, D/F+222222 this shouldn't be a timing problem.

It not only seems SAV d/f+2 is block able, it seems block able if they simply hold B (back quick roll). So then anticipate this and use d/f+2,1 until they learn to lie still.


I'm in training mode with a Xiaoyu dummy and she isn't blocking it even once using all the setups you listed.
First off, like I said earlier the opponent can't do a ground technique (quicker recovery) after a landed b+3 on the ground which means they can only choose from the category labeled 'stand up'.

try reproducing my steps:

1) Under action settings set the cpu opponent action 1 to stand
2) set the cpu opponent action 2 to Guard all (so they will get hit by launcher and attempt to block all following attacks)
3) Under Stand Up' category set the wake up option to wake up backward (Since they can't use a ground technique I assume you have it set to this)
4) Under Restart Settings set the opponent direction to 'back' (instead of having to SS)

Now as Miguel try any of the combos you listed and see if they block the SAV d/f+2. You can even have the dummy as miguel and record it doing the same combo and try and block it yourself.
JayceeChris
Kyu
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8
From: France
#45 “Quote” Edit Post
Hi there, don't know if you knew that but Miguel can actually get a little extra damage out of db+1.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/LzNskHV6AEM[/youtube]
sandilord
Destructive Impulse
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2092
From: Netherlands
PSN: Sandilord
#46 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by JayceeChris
Hi there, don't know if you knew that but Miguel can actually get a little extra damage out of db+1.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/LzNskHV6AEM[/youtube]
Nice. What's the difference in dmg and is it hard to connect? Looks like you have to be pretty fast.
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JayceeChris
Kyu
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8
From: France
#47 “Quote” Edit Post
You get 43 instead of 37 irc, it's not easy but with some practice you'll get it
sandilord
Destructive Impulse
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2092
From: Netherlands
PSN: Sandilord
#48 “Quote” Edit Post
Just a random post: I'm having about a 100% success rate with hitting f2+3 after ws3, d3. The stomp pushes them away and f2+3 seems to hit them while flinching. Haven't tested it through yet and I think it can be pretty easily blocked but so far almost no one does.
Edit: lol, the first 2 opponents I played after posting this got up after the stomp and blocked my f2+3 . Still, it hits very often and is virtually safe to throw out.

Other random note: on CH getup 3 I used to do ws4, d4, 1+2. Just this morning I thought of CH getup 3, ws24. Haven't checked for a decent combo yet. What do you guys use on CH getup 3?

Last edited by sandilord on Feb 8th, 2018 at 09:07

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MCP
MCP=(0_o)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9619
From: USA California
#49 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by zatoichi Flash!
I'm in training mode with a Xiaoyu dummy and she isn't blocking it even once using all the setups you listed.
First off, like I said earlier the opponent can't do a ground technique (quicker recovery) after a landed b+3 on the ground which means they can only choose from the category labeled 'stand up'.

try reproducing my steps:

1) Under action settings set the cpu opponent action 1 to stand
2) set the cpu opponent action 2 to Guard all (so they will get hit by launcher and attempt to block all following attacks)
3) Under Stand Up' category set the wake up option to wake up backward (Since they can't use a ground technique I assume you have it set to this)
4) Under Restart Settings set the opponent direction to 'back' (instead of having to SS)

Now as Miguel try any of the combos you listed and see if they block the SAV d/f+2. You can even have the dummy as miguel and record it doing the same combo and try and block it yourself.


Hello, I know it's been a long time since this post.

This is what I have in practice mode where they block SAV d/f+2 after BT b+3 juggle ender:

I selected Paul
Under restart settings, set the opponent direction to back.
Under action settings:
CPU opponent action 1: Stand
CPU opponent action 2: Standing guard
Ground Technique: Back Quick Roll (which should be holding B, or so I thought...)
Stand Up: Stand Up

Reset position
dash u/f+4 on BT, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2, b+3~F, D/F+22222 and they block it.
dash u/f+4 on BT, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2, b+3, D/F+2,11111 and they get launched on BT

So I recorded it Miguel vs Miguel.

Just holding "B" will get your ass knocked out by SAV d/f+2.

I did U+222222~B and I blocked SAV d/f+2 after the above juggles
I also just did U, B and I blocked SAV d/f+2 after the above juggles

Then I made sure the d/f+2,1 launches
dash u/f+4, d/b+2, d/f+1, d/f+2,2, b+3, D/F+2,1111 and I get launched for doing U+22222~B

FYI for those not knowing WTF does U+22222 do. In previous games at least, it gets up something like one or two frames faster than just holding U, which was important in some OKI situations.
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BlackViper55
War Lord
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 718
From: Philippines
PSN: RenegadeBlade27
#50 “Quote” Edit Post
For those wondering how to use his rage drive other than d/b+1, I found that his Rage Drive is the only screw that he has that can be used after 5 air hits (example: launch, d/b+2, d/f+1,f, SAV u/f+3, d/f+4,1).

CH b+1, slight SSR d/b+2, d/f+1,f, SAV u/f+3, d/f+4,1, d/b+1+2 (S!), ff+2,1 = 79 damage
https://twitter.com/X2783/status/965475536016322560

d/b+1*, cc, ssl, d/b+2, d/f+1,f, SAV u/f+3, d/f+4,1, d/b+1+2 (S!), ff+2,1 = 68 damage

CH f+2, 3+4, SAV u/f+3, d/f+1,f, SAV u/f+3, d/f+4,1, d/b+1+2 (S!), ff+2,1 = 80 damage

On CH b+1, it has to be slight SSR so that Miguel is slightly at the left, enough for d/f+4,1 to hit.
On CH f+2, SSR isn't needed before hitting SAV u/f+3 because it leaves Miguel slightly to the left, which is necessary for the combo to work.
On d/b+1*, use u instead of ff for automatic sidestep left. You will need to tap d for the Player 2 side though.
They are inconsistent against Josie and Alisa, and doesn't work at all against Xiaoyu, Chloe and Eliza.
Signature My TTT2 Teams:
Males: Devil Jin/Armor King, Paul/Heihachi, Marduk/Jack-6, Lee/Hwoarang, Ancient Ogre/Jinpachi
Females: Miharu/Asuka, Michelle/Jun, Kunimitsu/Zafina, Jaycee/Anna, Lili/Nina
But I always pick different teams
MCP
MCP=(0_o)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9619
From: USA California
#51 “Quote” Edit Post
Nice find! It also punishes deathfist on block <3
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zatoichi Flash!
2nd Dan
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 24
From: United States
#52 “Quote” Edit Post
That is a very good find. Great notes as well especially on the slight ss after CH f+2. I just used rage drive for d/f+1 until this.
BlackViper55
War Lord
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 718
From: Philippines
PSN: RenegadeBlade27
#53 “Quote” Edit Post
CH b+(2),2 combos without crouch cancel:

Vs all characters: CH b+(2),2, WS 4, d/b+2, d/f+1,f, SAV 4 (S!), u/f+3,2, ff+2,1 = 80 damage
https://twitter.com/X2783/status/967373084759015425
Vs Nina, Kat, Lili, MR and males except Lee: CH b+(2),2, WS 4, d/b+2, d/f+1, f+4,2 (S!), d/b+2, ff+2,1 = 81 damage
https://twitter.com/X2783/status/967372536731254784
Signature My TTT2 Teams:
Males: Devil Jin/Armor King, Paul/Heihachi, Marduk/Jack-6, Lee/Hwoarang, Ancient Ogre/Jinpachi
Females: Miharu/Asuka, Michelle/Jun, Kunimitsu/Zafina, Jaycee/Anna, Lili/Nina
But I always pick different teams

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