Craig Marduk Primer v1 (updated 11/5/10)

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epsilon_
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#41 “Quote” Edit Post
regarding u/f1+2 as juggle filler in combos...i prefer to just do 2, 1. it does like 5 points less, but you can't mess it up, which is what i look for in combos. i dont even bother doing ff1+2 air grab ender, it doesn't do significantly more and the oki setups aren't significantly better than 1, f+1+3
Zig21
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#42 “Quote” Edit Post
I only like uf+1+2 in juggles after CH uf+3, assuming I react fast enough. After qcf+1 and uf,N+4, uf+1+2, df+4,2 only seems to allow a bound on Feng or larger and I just don't use those moves very often.

2 into neutral 1 is a good substitute, but beware of how it affects your post-bound combos, especially if you're going for a wall carry. Adding extra hits seems to push people further away than in previous games, and Craig doesn't have a lot of moves that move him forward enough to keep up after a bound.

In the long run, I think the ff+1+2 ender is worth it as it can mean the difference between doing 45% and 50%. Plus the wake up has its own unique advantages (it's not really better than 1+3's, just different). It all depends on whether or not I'm executing consistently. If I am, I go for it. If not, I'll end with 1+3 instead after df+3,1,2,VTSc. And if my execution's REALLY off or I'm playing online, I'll go for df+3,1, f+1+3 after bound, although doing so makes me feel like it's week 1 of T5.0 again.

Last edited by Zig21 on Nov 30th, 2009 at 00:57

Signature I have come to the conclusion that Josh Ray (aka jTm) was derived artificially from chemicals; he was not naturally conceived by human birth. Test results show that Hattorii Sazabi is made up of the same chemicals. If somehow they could fuze their bodies together, they would become HATTORAY; the ultimate human being. Hattoray's TJ points would just be off the scale. - Tekken Justice
TheDinosaur
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#43 “Quote” Edit Post
after VTS 2+4 I just mix up b+1+2 and db+4. db+4 can only be backrolled IIRC, hits quickstanders in the back, and b+1+2 hits backroll.

also, aren't the mounted punches breaks the wrong way round? because craig punches across the opponent, you actually have to break with the SAME hand that he's using, (instead of the opposite one, which you have to do with ultimate tackle punches). so 1 = 1 break, 2 = 2 break?

plus in my (admittedly limited) experience, db+1 hits the opponent BT after jackhammer rather than floating them if they quickstand.
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MannyBiggz
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#44 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Slice
sorry to be picky, but arent these reversed?



how do you guys punish the common low sweeps? (bryan's d/f+3, law's d/b+4, etc) normally i go with WS4 but if im at max range i tend to whiff right in front of them. FC,d/f+4 is too slow. usually what i'll do is run up throw but it's becoming a routine problem for me. WS1 might work but on block many characters stagger pretty low to the ground.

low + far + im crouching = ??

u/f+3 might reach but i dont know.



also when a WS4 connects im tired of the standard d/b+4 stomp. i might mix it up with ground throw or dash forward D/F+3,1...anyone have other tricks? thanks.


You should be absolutly murdering Law for a blocked d/b+4. That nonsense is like -40 on block. Crouch Cancel into d/b+1+2 for tear inducing punishment. I believe the same goes for Nina and Baek's sweeps.
epsilon_
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#45 “Quote” Edit Post
combos for ch get up 3?

and ch FDFA d+2 (the prone hand sweep)
Zig21
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#46 “Quote” Edit Post
Dino: Nope. 1 for 2 and vice versa.

epsilon: For CH get up 3, FDFA d+2, and CH FC df+4...

-FC df+4 (easiest, reliable)
-cc, b+1+2 (1 less damage than db+4)
-cc, db+4 (most damage)

You can also go for uf+3+4 since it's hard to avoid. I think you have to roll towards Craig. If they try to side roll or don't move at all, go for ground throw (remember, it can be done from FC). I might test FC 1+2 against backroll as well.

For at least one of the get up kicks that launches on normal hit (pretty sure it's FDFT 3), you can do FC 1+2, df+4,2, B!, then df+3,1_df+3,1,2,VTSc or whatever else you fancy. I think FDFA 3 also trips on normal hit but don't quote me on that. Even if it does, it's pretty much the same as normal CH get up 3, so see above for combos.

Originally posted by MannyBiggz
You should be absolutly murdering Law for a blocked d/b+4. That nonsense is like -40 on block. Crouch Cancel into d/b+1+2 for tear inducing punishment. I believe the same goes for Nina and Baek's sweeps.


db+1+2 can be a bad choice. If you're on the left side I think it'd be worthwhile, since you can CC by sidestepping left and that'll keep you on-axis. But otherwise it's hard to get max damage due to the built-in sidestep right. CC into df+3,d+1 is the best overall option IMO, as is uf,N+4 if you're comfortable with the input.
Signature I have come to the conclusion that Josh Ray (aka jTm) was derived artificially from chemicals; he was not naturally conceived by human birth. Test results show that Hattorii Sazabi is made up of the same chemicals. If somehow they could fuze their bodies together, they would become HATTORAY; the ultimate human being. Hattoray's TJ points would just be off the scale. - Tekken Justice
epsilon_
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#47 “Quote” Edit Post
stomp appears to be guaranteed, they cant quick roll it in any direction.
Zig21
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#48 “Quote” Edit Post
Which stomp, exactly? 'cause he has 3.
Signature I have come to the conclusion that Josh Ray (aka jTm) was derived artificially from chemicals; he was not naturally conceived by human birth. Test results show that Hattorii Sazabi is made up of the same chemicals. If somehow they could fuze their bodies together, they would become HATTORAY; the ultimate human being. Hattoray's TJ points would just be off the scale. - Tekken Justice
MannyBiggz
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#49 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Zig21



db+1+2 can be a bad choice. If you're on the left side I think it'd be worthwhile, since you can CC by sidestepping left and that'll keep you on-axis. But otherwise it's hard to get max damage due to the built-in sidestep right. CC into df+3,d+1 is the best overall option IMO, as is uf,N+4 if you're comfortable with the input.


Negative. He can consistently get 91 damage off of it no matter what angle after blocking Dragon Tail. You just have to time the u/f+3, which is really easy to do.

CC d/b+1+2, wait a bit, u/f+3, 2, d/f+4, 2, B!, d/f+3, 1, f+2+4

On the first player side, you can score 95 damage with

CC d/b+1+2, wait a bit, u/f+3, 2, d/f+4, 2, B!, d/f+3, 1, 2, VTSc, 2+4 (NOTE: Use 2+4 WITHOUT f input)

And if you're really keen on using the 1+3 ender for oki:


CC d/b+1+2, wait a bit, u/f+3, d/f+4, 2, B!, d/f+3, 1, 2, VTSc, 1+3 (NOTE: Also use 1+3 without the f input)

Which also gives 91 damage, but is a bit tough to do. If you don't trust your execution, simply end it with d/f+3, 1, f+1+3 after bound.

I tried to get really greedy and test if CC (f+2), d1, 2 would be able to punish it. That's just wishful thinking though.
epsilon_
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#50 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Zig21
Which stomp, exactly? 'cause he has 3.


u/f+3+4 sorry, shouldve clarified haha.
Zig21
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#51 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by MannyBiggz
Negative. He can consistently get 91 damage off of it no matter what angle after blocking Dragon Tail. You just have to time the u/f+3, which is really easy to do.

CC d/b+1+2, wait a bit, u/f+3, 2, d/f+4, 2, B!, d/f+3, 1, f+2+4


I'm getting 87 damage instead of 91. Sure you don't have CH switched on? Still, that's as much damage as df+3,d+1, 2, df+4,2, B!, df+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2 and much easier to execute by comparison.

I still think df+3,d+1 is the better option with walls. Doing a wall carry juggle after db+1+2 isn't the problem, but once you get to the wall they have a tendency to hit off-axis and mess up your ender. While doing SSL before db+1+2 on the 1p side can keep you from hitting off-axis, you also risk giving Law enough time to block if you're off by a few frames.
Signature I have come to the conclusion that Josh Ray (aka jTm) was derived artificially from chemicals; he was not naturally conceived by human birth. Test results show that Hattorii Sazabi is made up of the same chemicals. If somehow they could fuze their bodies together, they would become HATTORAY; the ultimate human being. Hattoray's TJ points would just be off the scale. - Tekken Justice
MannyBiggz
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#52 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Zig21
I'm getting 87 damage instead of 91. Sure you don't have CH switched on? Still, that's as much damage as df+3,d+1, 2, df+4,2, B!, df+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2 and much easier to execute by comparison.

I still think df+3,d+1 is the better option with walls. Doing a wall carry juggle after db+1+2 isn't the problem, but once you get to the wall they have a tendency to hit off-axis and mess up your ender. While doing SSL before db+1+2 on the 1p side can keep you from hitting off-axis, you also risk giving Law enough time to block if you're off by a few frames.


You're forgetting the 2 jab after u/f+3.

I just did some testing, and the wall carry is fine. You should avoid wasting your bound on the crappy wall combo and try to set it up for wall throws instead. Heck d/b+1+2, u/f+3, d/f+3, 1, 2, VTSc, d/f+3, 1, 2 is 75 damage wall carry, and very easy to do in this game compared to DR. On player 2 side, you just have to take out the d/f+3 after VTS cancel, and it's still a chunk of damage for wall carry and very consistent.

I just feel that this isn't a move that you see very often (or at all ) in mid/high level play, but in the rare occasion that it is used there, you should remind them exactly why they shouldn't be using that move.
Zig21
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#53 “Quote” Edit Post
You're right, forgot the 2.

I'm not saving my bound for the wall. The problem is when they hit the wall after an off-axis launch, giving you that weird side-hit animation that results in an air throw if you grab them. It happens the most on stages like Lightning Storm and Urban War Zone, where you've got those big corners.

Still, I think I might start using db+1+2 more to punish blocked sweeps. It's by far the easiest means of doing 50% guaranteed without having to do df+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2.
Signature I have come to the conclusion that Josh Ray (aka jTm) was derived artificially from chemicals; he was not naturally conceived by human birth. Test results show that Hattorii Sazabi is made up of the same chemicals. If somehow they could fuze their bodies together, they would become HATTORAY; the ultimate human being. Hattoray's TJ points would just be off the scale. - Tekken Justice
Icege
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#54 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Zig21
Fixed the Mount 1+3_2+4 breaks.

For some blocked sweeps that stagger, you can just use uf+1+2 since they count as standing for part of the recovery. This is not always the case, however, so WS 3 is definitely the more reliable option.

In the long run, you should train yourself to crouch cancel and punish with df+3,d+1. That's just way too much damage to forgo in favor of even WS 3. Luckily, you can crouch cancel the easy way by simply tapping up. Hell, most of the time you can just wait for your character to stand up before doing it.

Personally, I stay away for uf,N+4, for two reasons. First, my stick doesn't go back to neutral very quickly so I get a lot of accidentaly uf+4s. Second, it only does more damage if you do uf+1+2, df+4,2, and that combo is not very reliable on mid-sized characters or smaller.

Edit: All this talk about sweeps makes me miss ff+1 even more. It was so easy to use for sweep punishment thanks to the dash input. At first I thought it'd be nice to have an easier dash-jab available, but now it seems to make no difference whatsoever and I never need it for wall carry. Instead I just feel deprived of a good move because Craig's qcf input feels like a bitch compared to other characters when moving around.


Wanted to emphasize u/f+1+2. Same speed as WS+3 but it gets you 81dmg compared to the 50s/60s of WS+3. Also easier than cc, d/f+3,d+1 and it's just a frame slower while doing only 6dmg less.
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Slice
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#55 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Zig21
Fixed the Mount 1+3_2+4 breaks.



thanks, but that wasnt what i meant...the 1+3 should be the guillotine, and the 2+4 is the kneebar.
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Zig21
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#56 “Quote” Edit Post
Fixed.
Signature I have come to the conclusion that Josh Ray (aka jTm) was derived artificially from chemicals; he was not naturally conceived by human birth. Test results show that Hattorii Sazabi is made up of the same chemicals. If somehow they could fuze their bodies together, they would become HATTORAY; the ultimate human being. Hattoray's TJ points would just be off the scale. - Tekken Justice
Galeon
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#57 “Quote” Edit Post
New to Marduk here. For the most part, I kinda get all the combo stuff but one thing bugs me.

It says that CH u/f+3, u/f+3, d/f+4,2 works. Is that true? Because I have yet to get that to work on anyone that wasn't Azazel. I've only had time to hit with a d+1 after 2 u/f+3.

Also, is there a suggested fast mid poke I should be using? Or an average speed mid that can bait a CH on block? Seems whenever I'm neutral with the guy and want to throw out something fast, all I got is jabs/highs.
QDogg
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#58 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Galeon

Also, is there a suggested fast mid poke I should be using? Or an average speed mid that can bait a CH on block? Seems whenever I'm neutral with the guy and want to throw out something fast, all I got is jabs/highs.


Consider db+2 or b+4. I spam a lot of b+4 to keep people honest and open up qcf+2 and d+4 opportunities.
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MannyBiggz
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#59 “Quote” Edit Post
d/f+4 by itself isn't a bad option either. It gives about +2 on hit, comes out at 13f, and is a knee (so you can avoid those pesky counters). Only downside is the damage isn't very good by itself, but if you want the damage, then you should be hit confirming the follow up. For some early/mid match setups though, it's not too bad.
Zig21
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#60 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Galeon
It says that CH u/f+3, u/f+3, d/f+4,2 works. Is that true? Because I have yet to get that to work on anyone that wasn't Azazel. I've only had time to hit with a d+1 after 2 u/f+3.

Also, is there a suggested fast mid poke I should be using? Or an average speed mid that can bait a CH on block? Seems whenever I'm neutral with the guy and want to throw out something fast, all I got is jabs/highs.


Pretty sure CH uf+3, uf+3, df+4,2 doesn't work. Might have been posted just for use on Azazel, as you mentioned.

df+4 is his fastest mid poke from standing, but I don't like it compared to a traditional df+1. The range isn't great and the hitbox is kinda shitty. It's also -9 on block, compared to regular df+1's which tend to be closer to neutral. Obviously they don't usually combo into a buff followup on normal hit, but that doesn't stop df+4 from being an inferior mid poke.

Like QDogg, I prefer b+4. It's only 1 frame slower and otherwise superior as a fast mid: good reach, safe, solid damage, and a way better hit box than df+4. Unfortunately it's still vulnerable to sidestep right (their right, your left) and -9 on block as well.

db+2 is a move I've never really liked, in part 'cause I just don't know when to use it. It has no range and the hitbox is awful, making it vulnerable to random sidestep and thus a whiff-for-no-reason factor ("Tekken Justice" as we call it in Seattle). Plus it's -2 on normal hit. Granted, it forces crouch. Woohoo, I don't care. I just want a fast mid poke that doesn't require a reversal-dependent mixup to keep momentum.

Which brings us to the sad fact that Craig doesn't have a substitute for regular df+1 and probably never will. Would giving him such a move make him stupid? Maybe, but there are plenty of buff-ass characters who have one. Just makes me miss the old 1+2 even more.
Signature I have come to the conclusion that Josh Ray (aka jTm) was derived artificially from chemicals; he was not naturally conceived by human birth. Test results show that Hattorii Sazabi is made up of the same chemicals. If somehow they could fuze their bodies together, they would become HATTORAY; the ultimate human being. Hattoray's TJ points would just be off the scale. - Tekken Justice

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