Joystick Q & A Thread

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Paik4Life
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1417
From: USA Virginia
PSN: Paik4Life
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
I thought a new thread for all joystick related questions would be better for everyone. If you have ANY questions about any part about joysticks, ask them here. The questions can deal with modding joysticks or if you need help/advice on building your own or even about specific retail sticks. I'm sure the collaborative effort of the community will be able to help you no matter how big or small your problem may be.

Okay, here's some SUGGESTIONS to make it easier for people to help you out:

1) Check out the Useful Threads Directory first. As the name implies, it has a lot of useful threads with some already written FAQs on a lot of popular topics like the HRAP FAQ or the Sanwa and Seimitsu FAQ. This is the very first place you should look before posting a question here.

2) PLEASE use the search function. It only takes a few seconds to do and it might give you the exactly answer you're looking for. That way you aren't wasting your time or the time of pepole who are trying to help out. Tip: Keep your search general. If you're looking for help on a specific retail stick put in the common name for it (e.g. Hori Real Arcade Pro or HRAP) as well as a specific word for the problem area (e.g. button). You may end up with more results but more is better than none.

3) There's the saying: "A picture is worth a thousand words." And that is true, especially when you're trying to explain a problem over the internet. It is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that you post pics or a links to pics of your problem. It's also helpful because people who are trying to help you can take those pictures, edit them and repost them with some helpful arrows or diagrams to make it a lot easier for you to understand.

4) Make your posts as clear and as concise as possible. Don't ask questions using "leet" talk or with no punctuations that make your 10 line post a giant run-on sentence.

Other than that, go at it!

~Paik
Signature "I'm unstoppable!!!" ~The Juggernaut
"Who OWNZ?!? The Shadow OWNZ!!!" ~Paik

"Smart bomb...*WHAM* haha!" ~ Aspen from RI Tekken Ep 2
DaRizat
MVP FAIL
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8612
From: USA California
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Does anyone know where I can find a Sanwa Flash joystick?

I know they are uber rare, but if anyone knows of a person/place that is willing to sell one, I have a buyer who wants it.
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Paik4Life
Destroyer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1417
From: USA Virginia
PSN: Paik4Life
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
The only person who has new ones that I know of is Per aka TheRealNeoGeo. But for a new one you're going to pay a lot like $140 plus shipping. He recently traded one for a brand new DS Lite.

I have 2 of them. I might be willing to sell mine, but honestly I don't think I will. It took a lot of effort and money to get the ones I have. Per is trying to get them to reproduce some more. It's looking good though.

~Paik
Signature "I'm unstoppable!!!" ~The Juggernaut
"Who OWNZ?!? The Shadow OWNZ!!!" ~Paik

"Smart bomb...*WHAM* haha!" ~ Aspen from RI Tekken Ep 2
DaRizat
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Posts: 8612
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Thats cool. Is it really the best around? I keep hearing how good they are.
Signature This is the elegant art of feminine conflict.

"* *** *****. ********** *****. *** *'* *****" - J****r K**g
Paik4Life
Destroyer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1417
From: USA Virginia
PSN: Paik4Life
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
If you like Japanese style sticks, then yes, I would say they are the best. I love the feel of them. They are without a doubt very nice since they are free of the resistance and clicky feeling of the standard microswitch joysticks.

ASCII also made a number of optical joysticks that were based off the Flash1 design. There are at least 5 that I know of off the top of my head. The ASCII Stick Justice, ASCII Stick Pro, ASCII Stick III, ASCII Stick Zero III, and the ASCII Stick FT Special I just bought a FT Special and Pro recently off Yahoo Japan. I will see how they compare and post up later.

~Paik
Signature "I'm unstoppable!!!" ~The Juggernaut
"Who OWNZ?!? The Shadow OWNZ!!!" ~Paik

"Smart bomb...*WHAM* haha!" ~ Aspen from RI Tekken Ep 2
Cynnik
alot deep
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 2343
From: USA California
PSN: Cynnik
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
hey paik, would you know the exact hole size for the korean stick? what size hole saw would i need for it? also while im at it, what size hole saw does everyone use for sanwa buttons? the hardware store in my area has 29mm and next 32mm.... which one should i use? thanks man.


btw, i think someone should transfer all the data from srk about custom stick building... i think TZ might be ready for that stuff. i would but im too lazy to do it.
Paik4Life
Destroyer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1417
From: USA Virginia
PSN: Paik4Life
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Man, I can't believe I missed this question. I must have been high or something. I know it's late to answer but I'll answer anyway.

Korea stick hole (Fantas or Crowns) = 34mm
Crown button = 28mm
Sanwa OBSF-30/OBSN-30 or Seimitsu PS-14-G = 30mm
Sanwa OBSF-24/OBSN-24 or Seimitsu PS-14-D = 24mm

As for transferring all the data, that would be quite arduous and really unnecessary. I also think the custom building threads on SRK are too unorganized aside from the first posts made by Rotendo. And in the end, if we're just copying everything from SRK, there's really no point in having this tech thread in TZ. The whole Forum here could just be a direct link to SRK Tech Talk : )

~Paik
Signature "I'm unstoppable!!!" ~The Juggernaut
"Who OWNZ?!? The Shadow OWNZ!!!" ~Paik

"Smart bomb...*WHAM* haha!" ~ Aspen from RI Tekken Ep 2
Nyawu
Shihan
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 119
From: USA California
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Arg, didn't see there was an already an Q&A thread. I'll repost here and try to delete the other topic.

Ok, so I just happened to have an DS v.A sitting around in the dust, and I wanted to mod my RAP2 so that it has an analog button, via putting DS's pcb inside the casing and rerouting all the wires to the DS pcb from the hori one. (So that just incase I can't get my hands on a 100%, non-lag converter, and I want to make sure the thing has an analog button to ensure that it works with all ps3 fighting games. (also, I want to use it on TTT, third strike, etc on my ps3 using my hori rap 2 as well)

Soooo, I can do this stuff as outlined in this guide:
http://home.comcast.net/~spiffyshoes/DualShockHack/

Somethings I can't seem to find answers for in guides I'v seen though....

questions:
1. The hori buttons have two prongs. The wiring from the guide only shows one wire coming out of the Ribbon Terminal. WTF do I do? Connect both ends of the hori buttons onto that one wire?

example of the button:
http://www.excellentcom.net/images/OBSF-30.jpg


2. In http://home.comcast.net/~spiffyshoes/DualShockHack/ guide, there is a black wire called "Ground". I have no idea what that is at all. Do I need to wire it to something to make the stick work?


Thanks in advance for any answers, pictures, or links to guides that answers these questions (as well as extra advice if you have any).
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insomnotek
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5555
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
im not too sure what you are talking about in your first question. the two prongs are for the red connection wire and the black ground wire.

when you have the pcb all wired up as shown in that guide, youll have a wire for each button and a ground wire.

all you have to do is connect one of the wires to each of the buttons/directions, making sure that you are using the corresponding wire for each button. pretty basic.

after you have done that, you also have to connect a ground wire to each of the connections. you can do that by simply daisy-chaining the ground wire to each of the buttons/directions.

sooooo..... the red wires go directly to their destinations and the black ground wire has to be connected to all the buttons/directions.

check out this thread and the inside pics they take of their sticks. it should help clarify some things.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=115479

get what i mean? let us know if you have trouble

Last edited by insomnotek on Feb 9th, 2007 at 04:05

Nyawu
Shihan
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 119
From: USA California
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
I -think- I got that. So, the wiring would end up looking something like this?

http://www.nyawu.com/badpiclol.jpg

does it matter which prong I put on the button, or as long as I get both black+red on there it'll be fine?

edit: ack replaced img w/ just a link, page scretch.
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Paik4Life
Destroyer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1417
From: USA Virginia
PSN: Paik4Life
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Yes that is fine. You can also "daisy-chain" which is where you have the black wire jump from button to button. Most people do it that way instead of splitting the ground signal like you posted.

I typically use a grounding bar to split my ground but I only do it for organizational purposes. I don't like the way daisy chains look.

I also deleted your thread for you.

~Paik
Signature "I'm unstoppable!!!" ~The Juggernaut
"Who OWNZ?!? The Shadow OWNZ!!!" ~Paik

"Smart bomb...*WHAM* haha!" ~ Aspen from RI Tekken Ep 2
Nyawu
Shihan
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 119
From: USA California
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
=) Ah, I see! I'll be working hard on my first stick soon then. I'll post up a pic when I'm done in a few weeks (and maybe come back here if I somehow run into another problem heh)

Thanks for the help so far, you guys rock. (And thanks for deleting the extra thread)
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insomnotek
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5555
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
gl man

i met you before right? best buy tourney? part of the cal poly crew?
Nyawu
Shihan
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 119
From: USA California
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
insom: Yep. I played ling, then sometime after the midway point of the tournie I had to face venom and killed me with feng pretty badly, so I switched to my second (lei) and still got kill. =) It was good times though.

edit: ok, forget my last question, I'm going to put some support bars since the stick is kinda huge.

My next question would be: Is there any downside to using a dualshock 2 pcb? I got one with the internals that looks exactly like the DS1 where you can do the solderless hack. Would there be any lag or extra problems since the DS2 has analog buttons?

Last edited by Nyawu on Feb 24th, 2007 at 09:30

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Masamuna
Dragon Lord
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 813
From: USA Georgia
PSN: Masamuna
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
So, I've finally decided to wane myself from the pad and learn how to play on a good stick. I've been reading and researching for the past couple of days and have come up with a few options for myself. Can anyone take a second to give their opinions on what I should do? The choices I have come up with are:

1. I have an HSF2. The stick is already giving out after 2 months of play. To mod this would be the cheapest option however since its a stock part stick everything is soldered to the pcb. I'm willing to take the time and read a solder faq though I guess. The biggest problem is that I can't stand the wait and always end up using my friends HRAP or Tekken stick, which brings me to my next option.

2. My friend has offered to sell his Tekken for approx. $30. Again i'll have to solder, but now i'll have a stick weight and size that i'm more comfortable. I'f anyone can direct me on how to put my own art on the face of the stick then I may be sold on this option.

3. I'm lazy, so soldering may or may not be out of the question. In that case I could buy a HRAP2 since they are ass easy to mod due to the quick disconnects. The drawback is the price (about $100) and on top of that the only one available is version B with the mirror top. In that respect though I could still buy my friend's tekken stick and take the face from that one (or so i've (mis)read on SRK) but that would be another 30 bones.

4. Commission a builder. I have both Finkle and Byrdo in mind, any other builders still active these days?

Any suggestions?
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Hwozuya
4th Dan
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 45
From: Poland
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
hi there
maybe one of you will be able to help me

i have hrap and korean joystick like the one here
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h...t5insidetop.jpg

i want to connect them but hrap uses http://www.akihabarashop.com/products/sanwa-JLFH.jpg do you know how i can connect those 2 ??

just like the guy did here with hrap and seimistsu joystick
http://www.geocities.jp/u3q_yusaku/seimitsu.html
Paik4Life
Destroyer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1417
From: USA Virginia
PSN: Paik4Life
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Masamuna:
There are a number of things you are misunderstanding or are not providing which makes answering your questions a bit annoying. I think I understand you but here are my questions for you:

You only said you want to "mod" various sticks. What brand of parts would you like to use? Joystick or buttons or both?

Now the answer to your questions (with assumptions):

1) HFS2 mod is relatively easy. You can have a look at the one I did just for fun the other week.


This was done with Sanwa JLF joystick and OBSF-30 buttons. Before you ask, no I don't have a tutorial for it.

2) If you're only replacing the joystick on the Tekken stick (I assume Tekken 5 stick), you do NOT need to solder. If you want to replace the buttons, then yes you will. I won't go into details but here's a pretty good tutorial for you. A lot of the picture links are broken though...
http://himuragames.suddenlaunch3.co...;num=1109887687

Putting artwork on any stick can be done in various ways. But honestly, the best way is to cut a piece of plastic (plexi or lexan etc) to the size of your top metal panel. You would of course have to drill holes and such so it's not a task for someone who doesn't want to do a lot of work (which seems to be you). You can do other things like print out a vinyl sticker or something but in the end, the protection of the plastic layer is best if you're using artwork.

3) You are talking about HRAP1. HRAP2 is the white base version with red parts and a different layout. And also you're talking about version A of HRAP1 when you talk about the mirror top. Version B is the one with a plain design similar to the HRAP2. I'm sure you're referring to the mislabeled HRAP1s on eBay. They are incorrect. The panels on all the HRAP style sticks SHOULD be interchangeable, I can't say for sure since I have never owned an HRAP (only T5 stick at one point), but I can assure you that I'm 99% sure.

4) There is a specific thread about stick builders and such. Go here:
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...?threadid=95468

Honestly, you sound like you want to put in minimal effort. What you probably want to do is buy an already modded stick from someone or commission a builder. Obviously the latter is a bit more expensive. Feel free to ask more questions here. Good luck.

Hwozuya:
Yeah, you can do it, but fitting a Fanta or other Korean stick into an HRAP will require some metal work. At the very least you'll have to drill a large hole for the Korean stick's collar to fit through the panel about 2mm. The problem is then mounting it. There are several ways you can do this, but I'm going to stop here for now because I may have already lost your interest in this mod. If you want a semi-detailed walkthrough, I will provide it given you are still interested in all the metal work (and have the tools needed to do it).

The wiring is fairly simple. You need to get rid of the 5-pin terminal. You can just cut it off if you're not going to ever need it again. You can do wire it in the same fashion as the LS-32 example. He even has it color coded for you. Remember the grounds and daisy chain them. He does everything with solder, but it's nicer to do it with .187 quick disconnects.

~Paik

Last edited by Paik4Life on Apr 11th, 2007 at 21:36

Signature "I'm unstoppable!!!" ~The Juggernaut
"Who OWNZ?!? The Shadow OWNZ!!!" ~Paik

"Smart bomb...*WHAM* haha!" ~ Aspen from RI Tekken Ep 2
Hwozuya
4th Dan
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 45
From: Poland
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
waltkthrough would be great man i really have nothing else to do now than doing this mod.

i used to swap buttons for sanwas but thats piece of cake, but i have no idea how to ground those bolts and connect those cables after removal of the 5-pin socket. i will use metal grinder to wide up the hole.
Paik4Life
Destroyer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1417
From: USA Virginia
PSN: Paik4Life
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Using a metal grinder is probably a horrible idea. You have to widen the hole a lot. I think 1 1/8 inch. Something like that. Don't quote me. I could measure my stash of Fantas, but just to get the point across, it won't be necessary.

Aside from doing the hole for the collar, you will probably want to remove the existing mounting plate. Since it's welded on, the only way to do this is to drill through the weld points. The mounting plate will then fall off. Obviously this will make holes in the top panel.

Once that is done, you will need to make some sort of spacer for the joystick to mount to the panel, otherwise the stick will be mounted too high and the joystick will be very long. The easiest way to make a spacer is to use some kind of cheap wood-like material like MDF. You'll likely want to to be just under 1/4 of an inch thick if you can manage it. Make sure it's a duplicate of the Fanta's metal plate (same size and with the same holes for the collar and screws). It should slip onto the top of the joystick and line up evenly.

Then all you need to do is mount both the joystick and the spacer to the top panel. Use long screws and nuts. You obviously have to drill holes into the top panel that match up with the mounting holes.

I know that was a bit short and brief, but writing a whole walkthrough step by step is time consuming especially when it's for something that I'm not interested in.

~Paik
Signature "I'm unstoppable!!!" ~The Juggernaut
"Who OWNZ?!? The Shadow OWNZ!!!" ~Paik

"Smart bomb...*WHAM* haha!" ~ Aspen from RI Tekken Ep 2
Masamuna
Dragon Lord
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 813
From: USA Georgia
PSN: Masamuna
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Paik4Life
Masamuna:
There are a number of things you are misunderstanding or are not providing which makes answering your questions a bit annoying. I think I understand you but here are my questions for you:

You only said you want to "mod" various sticks. What brand of parts would you like to use? Joystick or buttons or both?

Now the answer to your questions (with assumptions):

1) HFS2 mod is relatively easy. You can have a look at the one I did just for fun the other week.

This was done with Sanwa JLF joystick and OBSF-30 buttons. Before you ask, no I don't have a tutorial for it.

2) If you're only replacing the joystick on the Tekken stick (I assume Tekken 5 stick), you do NOT need to solder. If you want to replace the buttons, then yes you will. I won't go into details but here's a pretty good tutorial for you. A lot of the picture links are broken though...
http://himuragames.suddenlaunch3.co...;num=1109887687

Putting artwork on any stick can be done in various ways. But honestly, the best way is to cut a piece of plastic (plexi or lexan etc) to the size of your top metal panel. You would of course have to drill holes and such so it's not a task for someone who doesn't want to do a lot of work (which seems to be you). You can do other things like print out a vinyl sticker or something but in the end, the protection of the plastic layer is best if you're using artwork.

3) You are talking about HRAP1. HRAP2 is the white base version with red parts and a different layout. And also you're talking about version A of HRAP1 when you talk about the mirror top. Version B is the one with a plain design similar to the HRAP2. I'm sure you're referring to the mislabeled HRAP1s on eBay. They are incorrect. The panels on all the HRAP style sticks SHOULD be interchangeable, I can't say for sure since I have never owned an HRAP (only T5 stick at one point), but I can assure you that I'm 99% sure.

4) There is a specific thread about stick builders and such. Go here:
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...?threadid=95468

Honestly, you sound like you want to put in minimal effort. What you probably want to do is buy an already modded stick from someone or commission a builder. Obviously the latter is a bit more expensive. Feel free to ask more questions here. Good luck.

~Paik


I apologize for the lack of clarity. I'm just wanting a modded stick for myself and was pointing out options of what I could do to attain one. I am pretty lazy, but if its more cost effective to just mod one for myself then I'd rather take the past less traveled then.

1) The reason I brought up the HSF modding was originally because of your post on SRK. Thank you for the insight.

2) Hmmm, The Tekken stick sounds like the best option then. So for the plastic covering I need to cut it in the shape of the top casing and drill the holes? And then the artwork is just placed under it?

Thank you for the advice.
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