Opinions on T7 S3 Eddy after Leroy Release

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ENHEAS
Virtuoso
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 227
From: Italy
PSN: ENHEAS_TK
XBL: no x box
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
I waited for the Leroy release just in case Namco would bring some adjustments.. and they did.
So here is the usual topic of mine about Eddy.

S3 changes:


- d\b1+2 and wr3 got damage buff. From 12 to 15 and 18 to 20 respectively.
- ss2 got fixed. Now it has good frames for the slow mid it is. +3 on block, +8 on hit and leaves opponent fc.
- uf3,3+4 got fixed. Now rlx3~4 is guaranteed again
- ff2,3 is now -14 and +5 on hit instead of -15 and +4.
- hsp throw is 2 frames faster
Better than nothing.

- there's a bunch of changes involving the distance of standing 3~4 and all the correspondent moves (like from hsp etc) which I didn't understand honestly. I didn't find any relevant difference in game so I don't know what to say.

- change in the command input of b1+2. Probably this helps stick players to have more tolerance while giving inputs so they can get b1+2 and not b2 or b1 instead of it.

- change in hsp d+3+4. Now counts as crouching from frames 1 to 15.
Statuses are standing, airborne, crouching, downed.
I can't tell what the change is here, since the detailed frame list in practice mode signs hsp d3+4 always as "airborne", whereas when you go into rlx it gives you and "airborne" window before the "downed" status.

- f+2,3 New Move. It is a new 12 frame punisher. Ends automatically in hsp at +6. Problem is that even on hit it is vulnerable to up to i19 moves if you want to just recover from it and stay safe. Eddy is forced to try something. Problem is that you have to go for that something blindly, so even if hsp 4 will beat everything, if opponent just blocks Eddy iso going to get punished. This is a disadvantaging situation firstly for Eddy, because he can lose from every option. It is true that it opens a mindgame, so a wise opponent would not go for anything after getting f23, but at the same time the Eddy player knows he risks from doing the right thing basically, and the wise opponent can always be wiser and condition the Capo player so Eddy gets launched once he tries to recover from f23.
There were early tweets showing f23 vulnerable to RAs, this is not true. Eddy can recover fast enough to block them, nonetheless i19 long range moves are going to hit (ex. Deviljin's f+4).

- CH HSP b+3/ CH (1),3 / CH df+3 /CH rlx (1),3 now have new animation, basically the same of (uf3)3+4 on hit.
These should've been a buff. However:
1- new animation occurs only if the kick part of the animation hits. This means ch13 won't result in anything new for example, just if the 3 hits alone we're going to have the new ch, so ch(1)3. And this makes a huge difference.
2- you are "forced" to go into relax. Up to my knowledge, there's nothing guaranteed on ch if you decide to go into hsp. So basically this reduces the Capo player's options, as there's almost no point into going in hsp from those moves. The CH occurs only if the second hit lands, so the Capo player cannot even predict any consequence from going for 1,3 etc. He has to pick his\her choice in advance. So basically one has to go into rlx and renounce to hsp and the consequent scenarios (advantageous for Eddy only if on hit for the distance created)
3- they rarely occur.
4- only rlx 3 is guaranteed afterwards. Rlx3~4 isn't always guaranteed depending on distance. This means 9 points of damage. Definetely not that much right?
5- As far as CH Hsp b+3 is concerned, it is a big NERF imho. The reason you go for hsp b+3 (that is slow, easily steppable\sidewalkable and heavily punishable on block) is to get momentum and a chance to land a 50\50. The new ch animation kills everything. For 9 dmg. This is very unfair and up to my knowledge it is the first case of a counter that penalizes the player instead of rewarding him\her. CHs always bring good stuff to the player who lands them. From juggles (that usually take even more damage than those from natural hit launchers) to guaranteed hits (that bring reasonable damage output) or frame advantage. In this case instead of getting a reward, you get your momentum killed and no 50\50 whatsoever.
6- Basically these 4 moves show the same issue of uf3,3+4 before the fix.

S3 Changes AFTER Leroy:

- RA expanded hitbox downwards (fixed the problem of RA not even hitting some mids)
- rlx1 leaves opponent closer when hit (fixed the rlx1,3 non acting like a natural hit in some cases)

SO:

- all in all, I am glad they finally fixed some of the issues Eddy brought with him since S1, but many still stand and there are new ones unfortunately. S3 brought some minor pluses and several wasted occasions to turn Eddy into a more competitive character. If we consider the rest of the cast and what they got, Eddy results in being kept behind the others.
It is quite clear to me the intention of placing him into a mid tier position. I just wish that what he already has or what he's been recently given could work properly, where properly is intended in comparison of what is meant to work for the rest of the cast or worked in the past for him or is commonly intended to have some specific properties (like a landed counter move that would bring advantages to the player instead of disadvantages).


I wish Eddy could get:

- fixes to what it is not working of his command list
uf4 not hitting a lot of lows despite being a low crush move, 1+2 range, ws4 going off axis, wr3 passing in between opponent's legs without hitting etc

- a step backwards to allow some moves to be more effective, whilst being very high risk\low reward now. Such as rlx4~3 launching at first hit, hspb+3 not floatable on block, u\b+3 faster and slightly bigger hitbox, d\b 1+2 working as in ttt2, smaller rlx hurtbox or more rational interactions between relax and some mids or even highs(akuma's full focus attack).
Df2 got destroyed, I wish it could track a bit or at least it could have its vertical hitbox back.
D+3~4 not low-parriable again

- fixes to the new implementations:
a)f23 should allow Eddy to recover safely on hit. I thought of a non-hsp version and an hsp version. In the non-hsp Eddy would deal the same damage and recover standing. The kick could be the same as ttt2 Tiger's ws23
b) all the new chs should guarantee at least rlx1,4,4,3+4. Especially ch hsp b+3. If one goes for hsp, then hsp u+3 should be guaranteed.

"Sensible" buffs I would like to see:
- b24 faster recovery on hit
- rlx4 safe and with extended hitbox downwards
- 3 faster
- b3f safe
- df11 more damage (juggle wise)
- 3+4 faster and earlier jump status
- more tolerance for Eddy's juggles when characters are not perfectly alligned
- a bit more damage at wall
- rlx lateral movement faster
- FC throw bigger hitbox
- db4 safer

- not sure of this, but I got the impression of a diminished range for df3+4 compared to s1. I might be wrong but in case I am right I would like to see it back as it was.

Huge buffs (daydreaming lol)
- ws13 mid mid
- df2 as it was in ttt2
- uf3 + on block
- qcf3 at i17

Last edited by ENHEAS on Jan 10th, 2020 at 15:06

ENHEAS
Virtuoso
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 227
From: Italy
PSN: ENHEAS_TK
XBL: no x box
ENHEAS
Virtuoso
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 227
From: Italy
PSN: ENHEAS_TK
XBL: no x box
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
FEEDBACKS FROM THE PLAYERS

I've been gathering together with my friend Kali all the feedbacks\requests\wishlists we have received via social media (twitter, discord, facebook, private messages) and other players' opinions expressed there.
Many thanks to Kali for the hard work!

I'll post them here as they are, in no specific order. I'll just divide them into stances\movement, fixes and moves:

STANCES - MOVEMENT

- Interactions when Eddy is in rlx not pressing buttons (rlx hurtbox VS moves hitboxes) somehow adjusted so Eddy doesn't get hit by some "improbable" mids or Akuma's full-charged focus attack, which is a HIGH (LOL)

- rewinder back (1+2 manual step like old times)

- HSP cancels\transitions to back into standing faster and more functional

- HSP tilt (hsp u or hsp d) more evasive (like being able to avoid getup kicks)

- d+4,3 transition into hsp available

- b1 transition into hsp available


FIXES

- fixes to f2,3. Give f2,3 a non-hsp 100% safe on hit version of it and leave hsp version as is

- fixes to f4,3,3+4. When the 3 counter hits, 3+4 is not always guaranteed especially when opponent is sidewalking\stepping

- u/f 4 expanded hitbox downwards

- RA hitbox at least as Armor King's

- hsp b3 not floatable on block

- rlx4~3 starter at first hit


MOVES

- d\f+2: this was probably the most requested adjustment. The wishes were several but all in all were about bringing it to its old status as in ttt2 (i14, -10, pushback, tracking).
Others were more focused on tracking only. Some asked for df2 to become homing (O_O)

- d\b 3 leaving the opponent closer on hit so that when doing db34 the 4 won't whiff(or increase 4's hitbox?)

- d\b 4 homing

- rlx 3~4 bigger hitbox

- u\f 1+2,d - u+1+2,d back

- hsp 1 back like it was in T6 (specular version of actual hsp 2). T7 hsp 1 -> hsp 1+2 (new command)

- d\f 3+4,d back, so Eddy can hit grounded opponents, recovers crouching, not launcher. To be applied also to 1+2,3 and uf3,3 as well

- 3+4~3(hsp) on hit +13\+14 instead of +12 so one would be able to and a guaranteed hsp 4 in open field (i12\13)

- f+4,b (hsp) on hit +13\+14 instead of +12g, same as above

- rlx 4 i14 instead of i15 and safer, like -11. This request has been frequent
- rlx 4 Expanded hitbox downwards so that b33,rlx 4 will always work at wall on every character
- rlx 4 to give S! when Counter Hit

- rlx1,4 natural combo

- u\f+3+4 faster,
- u\f+3+4 to give S! on natural hit,
- u\f+3+4 safer,
- u\f+3+4 more damage output

- ss4 first hit -10 on block

- 4 better frames on hit and on block

- ss4,3+4 not interruptable by jabs

- 3,4 o f 2,1,4 to give wall bounce

- rlx(2),3 to be able to hit grounded opponents

- d\b 3 faster

- RD to be able to hit grounded opponent with its second hit with the same effect of Asuka's RD when hits airborne\grounded opponent.

- Someone expressed the need for a single hit move from standing able to give S!

- b+2 safe

- ff2 faster

- u/f+4 homing
note from Enheas: basically more tracking and/or a more efficient homing move is a very very very common request: db4 homing,3 faster, ff2 faster, Uf4 homing etc

D 3~4 not lowparriable again (I forgot to put it before, gonna add it on my list as well)

Last edited by ENHEAS on Jan 11th, 2020 at 14:13

lizanias
Spread Tekken <3
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1696
From: Indonesia
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Reasonable Suggestions:


  • d+2 (#37 on the move list)
    can you make Eddy recover in crouching position? So I can make opponent guessing.
    d+2, then while standing 2
    .....or d+2, then while crouching d/f+4

  • b+3~f (#60 on move list)
    this is like a small poke so I think it should be only -10 or even below -9 on block

  • d/b+3,3 (#44 on the move list)
    please make it -13 or less on block

  • d/b+4 (#51 on move list)
    please make it -14 or less on block


  • RLX 4,3 (#147 on the move list)
    .....or negativa [4.3]

    increase the damage to 10,10 or maybe 15,10.
    It's a risky combo starter that you do it after you reach the moment to take a big risk.


  • hold back during handstand to stand
    like from Tekken 3 to Tekken Tag 2.



I want to edit this post someday to put add silly ideas.
Silly ideas that the developers may tune to reasonable , fun ideas. Maybe.
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The Tekken King
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
I will add:

RLX,2 (faster) it is 21F!!!
RLX, U or D (treat the transition as RLX, because I always hop kicked for a full juggle when try to evade)
RLX (dont make the stance hit by WR+3 from all the cast)
FF+2 (more range because even a small back dash will make this move wiff)

Can any one please send this lists to Harada before the next update.
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patzeram
Tennis hacker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6452
From: United States
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by The Tekken King
I will add:

RLX,2 (faster) it is 21F!!!
RLX, U or D (treat the transition as RLX, because I always hop kicked for a full juggle when try to evade)
RLX (dont make the stance hit by WR+3 from all the cast)
FF+2 (more range because even a small back dash will make this move wiff)

Can any one please send this lists to Harada before the next update.


Go to his Facebook page and tell him.
https://www.facebook.com/harada.kat...73tZNKW2roiVmXz

Harada does listen to fans. He nerfed Leroy because of many complaints.
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Ashesfall
Fighter
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by patzeram
Harada does listen to fans. He nerfed Leroy because of many complaints.

so evo japan 2020 had 6 leroys in top 8 and tekken7 has a roster of 47 fighters

yeah teamtekken really needed "complainers" to see how "balanced" he was ...

ps: sorry for offtopic but i couldnt resist
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ENHEAS
Virtuoso
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
UPDATE:

other requests were made during this time period.

one important that I totally forgot is

- db3,4 to always hit. Often the 4 will whiff and be very unsafe

- ff+3+4 to be reverted as it was in ttt2 and to give the same stomp properties as Julia's

- RD to be turned into qcf3+4 so you can dash and then do the RD instead of dashing and getting f+3+4.
ENHEAS
Virtuoso
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 227
From: Italy
PSN: ENHEAS_TK
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
UPDATE:

other suggestions and thoughts arrived.

BUFFS:


- U\f+3 expanded hitbox downwards so it could hit grounded
- U\f+3 + on block
- give Eddy the same bb as Zafina's (improvement not in the backdash but only the bb, first part of the movement)
- ff+2,3 range improved of ff2 and 3 able to hit grounded

Last edited by ENHEAS on May 3rd, 2020 at 14:50

KINGofIRONfist
Malec
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Posts: 2696
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
most of the things were already mentioned:

have you ever tried to hit Zafina out of her stances? Eddy's downwards hitbox is terrible

-I miss old df2 glory (14f, good tracking, you could hit Ling out of AOP with the downwards hitbox). I can handle the 15f nerf, cause we have b2,4 now, I can handle the tracking nerf, cause you can readjust with movement, but the downwards hitbox beeing so terrible, I think at least that should get back to ttt2< times

-df1 terrible downwards hitbox, this move sometimes feels like a high

-was d2 hitbox nerfed? I could hit b+1+2 at the wall and follow up with d2,3 in Season1, d2 whiffs now. d2,3 should hit grounded, if the opponents wants to stay grounded

-Eddy's tools to hit a grounded opponent are whack, qcf3 whiffs for no reason at some situations (and there are pretty much no pickup float juggles anymore, so its not rewarding anyway), d2 dosent hit at all anymore, ub3 is to slow, u3 is to slow => terrible OKI game.

-ub3 beeing a powercrush move is strange. we lost one of our only +frame moves at the wall and the power crush activates so late, most of the time its just not working. I would prefer u1+2 / uf1+2 beeing a mid and beeing the powercrush move, without making it unsafe or make fc3+4 the PC without changing the frames or so

-ff2 needs more range for sure

-rlx 4 needs to be safe or more rewarding on ch (instant screw) and better downward hitbox, so wallender works against all characters

-f2,3 should be safe on hit vs RA no matter what, the range or damage isnt that crazy for a 12f punish to give that penalty. maybe f2,3 should knowdown and leave the opponent close to you (like katarinas b4,1+2 or f+1+2). so you can mixup with hsp or go into rlx and mixup from there.

-change the input (maybe f1+4 ?) for the ragedrive and make it useable out of rlx and hsp too. rlx and hsp share f+3+4, so why not the ragedrive?
ENHEAS
Virtuoso
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
@Kingofironfist: thanks for the feedback! Yes something has already been said but the rest you mentioned is very interesting and agreeable imo.

UPDATE: New feedbacks have arrived:

- ss4~3 to become mid and faster. Now it is i33 or something, it should become i27-28. This to be used at wall or as juggle ender
- Christie's throws as command throws


then a friend made this list, he clearly specified that most likely these changes would make Eddy OP. Some interesting hints by the way, here they are:

- d/f2 homing

- rodeo from 50 to 60 dmg

- d3~4 not low parryable again

- ss2 +4 ob

- rlx4~3 to not stagger on block or to lead to a 50% life combo

- b+3,3 -12 ob

- db3,4 to knockdown at all angles

- RD not to give tailspin straight away but to allow it afterwards

- increase the range of f+2

- leave all opponents close after uf3,3+4 hits

- increase the range of qcf3

- hsp b+3 -9 on block

- hsp 3+4 approx 3 or 4 frames faster

- WR3 to be cancelled

- b+3 to hit grounded

- increase recovery time after 2+4 successfully landed allowing for guaranteed wake up

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