Master Raven in FR

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Starwinderbeta
Team Glow™
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4423
From: USA California
#121 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by ZaibatsuXiaoyu
New to Raven so I feel like I'm starting from scratch which is pretty unsettling for me.

How are we supposed to be breaking them open? Her lows arent the best I'm just trying to figure out how to get her nonsense started.

Also BT shenanigans...I need help all across the board here..

Im also lost on how to close the gap should I be using f+2,4? I feel like its slightly neutral/negative is ff+3 a better option??


From playing tekken almost 20 years I just dont have faith in pressure when high crush completely invalidates characters like Raven with faux pressure if you know how and when to duck.


Her lows are fine. Open them up by training them to duck with quicksand (do it out of CD). Healthy quicksand usage, mixed with snake dashes. If you anticipate a crouch when you CD, cancel into WS+1 or mid of choice.

Raven is very movement heavy. You need to have snake dashing down, as well as CD cancels (look at Knitemare's/Gandido's posts).

You close the gap with Raven the honest way: playing the spacing game and inching your way in. There's no other way around it. Every option that I've seen suggested here will only get you killed by any player worth their salt.

As for BT strats, nothing has changed from tag 2, really. But because her front-face tools are more solid overall, there is less emphasis on SDW in T7. SDW oki is not really worth exploring--no staple combos end in SDW and close enough to the opponent.
Shodokan123
7th Dan
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 83
PSN: Shodokan123
#122 “Quote” Edit Post
How does one do the HAZ 4 out of being hit? I can't seem to find it in the command list.
Signature Bob, Bruce, Heihachi, Lili, Raven
ghunter32
Kyu
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1
#123 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Shodokan123
How does one do the HAZ 4 out of being hit? I can't seem to find it in the command list.


I wasn't able to find it either, but after practicing in lab... the answer is bb2 on punish. Try it out

EDIT: I meant on "reversal".

Last edited by ghunter32 on Jun 7th, 2017 at 11:17

Starwinderbeta
Team Glow™
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4423
From: USA California
#124 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Shodokan123
How does one do the HAZ 4 out of being hit? I can't seem to find it in the command list.


Get hit during first few frames of b,b+2.
ZaibatsuXiaoyu
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1937
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TSA-PATDOWN
XBL: ToneOfARC
#125 “Quote” Edit Post
Can someone tell me how he is doing WR and FC moves out of Ravens dash?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOcB5kEeEBY&t=283s
Starwinderbeta
Team Glow™
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4423
From: USA California
#126 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by ZaibatsuXiaoyu
Can someone tell me how he is doing WR and FC moves out of Ravens dash?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOcB5kEeEBY&t=283s


d,D/F + button for FC
d,d/f,n + button for WS
D3TROITR3D 2K
5th Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 59
From: USA Michigan
XBL: D3TROITR3D 2K
#127 “Quote” Edit Post
Think I may have found something kinda interesting...gonna test it out some more before I post it...don't wanna get clowned. I'm a Zaf convert...
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D3TROITR3D 2K
5th Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 59
From: USA Michigan
XBL: D3TROITR3D 2K
#128 “Quote” Edit Post
Looked around and don't see any mention of 4,1 or b+2,2 into a BT d+4...just starting out but there is some potential shenanigans here. Also, what is your personal method to get to BT?
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ZaibatsuXiaoyu
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1937
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TSA-PATDOWN
XBL: ToneOfARC
#129 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by D3TROITR3D 2K
Looked around and don't see any mention of 4,1 or b+2,2 into a BT d+4...just starting out but there is some potential shenanigans here. Also, what is your personal method to get to BT?


BT d+1 is better because its harder to interrupt than d+4 and you set them up for a 50/50 if they dont react.

b+2,2 is a bit slow for my taste but I dont see the harm in throwing it out from time to time, still kinda slow and not enough positive frames on block to really train them to not move, my primary ways to get into BT are:

b3+4 - just do it
db+2
4,1


I dont really get the point of the HAZ feint nobody ever just stands there. Maybe im doing it wrong, I wish there was more transitions to 3+4 outside of 1,2

Last edited by ZaibatsuXiaoyu on Jun 12th, 2017 at 11:43

D3TROITR3D 2K
5th Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 59
From: USA Michigan
XBL: D3TROITR3D 2K
#130 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by ZaibatsuXiaoyu
BT d+1 is better because its harder to interrupt than d+4 and you set them up for a 50/50 if they dont react.


Cool, thanks. The BT d+1 does have much much better advantages on hit/block, but its one of those Special Mids while BT d+4 is a low with better reach. I'll start testing with your suggestion though. Only been hit out of it a few times as of yet, but ppl aren't ducking out the second hit of 4,1 to let me know if I can still get the low before the punish...
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AndorDrakon
1st Dan
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 16
#131 “Quote” Edit Post
d/b+2 is probably my favourite - fast(13f?), mid, safe, good +frames on hit.

Also im gonna repeat my question from combo thread - is there anything we can do after BT 1+2?

Last edited by AndorDrakon on Jun 12th, 2017 at 18:10

D3TROITR3D 2K
5th Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 59
From: USA Michigan
XBL: D3TROITR3D 2K
#132 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by AndorDrakon
d/b+2 is probably my favourite - fast(13f?), mid, safe, good +frames on hit.

Also im gonna repeat my question from combo thread - is there anything we can do after BT 1+2?


Thanks for that! Gonna try that out. Yea I've been trying to work on that BT 1+2, has to be something there for it to grant a crumple stun...
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KNITEMAREX
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 317
From: United Kingdom
#133 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by AndorDrakon
d/b+2 is probably my favourite - fast(13f?), mid, safe, good +frames on hit.

Also im gonna repeat my question from combo thread - is there anything we can do after BT 1+2?


b+3 is guaranteed

f,f+4 also causes a flip knockdown if they try to stand
Ryder052
6th Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 77
From: Poland
PSN: Ryder0252
#134 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by ZaibatsuXiaoyu
I dont really get the point of the HAZ feint nobody ever just stands there. Maybe im doing it wrong, I wish there was more transitions to 3+4 outside of 1,2

It's actually best if they try to attack with a high
You can try doing HAZ out of reach to make them more wary, I do it and they rarely ever interrupt my 1,2~HAZ

And BTW qcf 1~HAZ is a thing too!
yoloswag
Shihan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 124
From: Finland
PSN: Chief_Sona300
#135 “Quote” Edit Post
Been messing with Raven for few days. She looks like a really good characters: good mids, highs and lows. She got everything.

I have few questions. First is her b+2+4 and bt f+1+2 weird teleports.How safe is this? Its weird move and how should i utilize it? Especially how can she make certain moves safe and all that good shit.

Really fun character but would like to know more about her. Thanks.

Last edited by yoloswag on Jun 14th, 2017 at 21:33

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Gandido
Test Before You Post
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1918
From: USA Florida
PSN: Gandido787
#136 “Quote” Edit Post
Got really curious after watching some of the older Kirito footage out there and tried to analize why he was prefering to use w! SDW b+23 u/f+3+4,3+4, versus our usual classic SDW 3+4, u/f+3+442.

• Damage difference is, the SDW b+23 u/f+3+4,3+4 does 4 points less than the usual ender.

• When you use the one Kirito has been using and you throw out say, d/b+4 (it was the option I was testing out as it made the most sense), I noticed that whenever I tried to throw out a quick wakeup kick, the game would force me to techroll. The timing for wakeup kicks is hard, and if it ever does come out, you get a CH d/b+4 which nets you a free followup near the wall. When you use the standard option, if you mash out a d/b+4, and they try a wakeup kick, you eat the wakeup kick and are quite possibly comboed out of the wall. The only "safe" wakeup option on the standard finisher is d+3, which beats out the wakeup kicks.

• On the other hand, the situation changes when someone tries to techroll. From Kirito's finisher of choice, you have less frame advantage upon techroll. The d/b+4 attempt was actively stuffed by mashing techroll and WS4 with any character. I couldn't get a WS launcher to hit, but it would be interesting to find out exactly what kind of leeway it is that we have. On the standard finisher, d/b+4 beats out EVERYTHING after a techroll.

• Toe kick recovery beats out the d/b+4 attempt in both scenarios.

Best scenario overall is if you're not going to throw out something to actively hit them on the floor like d/b+4, you can do a quick SWR after the standard finisher and then evaluate the situation. SWR dodges both mid and low wakeup kicks, allows you to wall splat them with a b+44 (s! into w! scenario) and do the combo again, and it dodges the low kick so you can do the same. If they tech roll, you can probably still keep pressure with d+3, 33 and such.

Curiosity was killing me. This post might not matter to any of you.

Last edited by Gandido on Jun 14th, 2017 at 23:00

Signature "Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur

Evolution 2008 Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection Runner-Up
KNITEMAREX
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 317
From: United Kingdom
#137 “Quote” Edit Post
Interesting, but I'll probably stick to max damage as it really is crazy how much you can get off every practical starter.

Also, how long has HAZ~f existed? Puts you in Snake Dash from HAZ, never seen it used ever.
igniz13
3rd Dan
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 35
From: United Kingdom
#138 “Quote” Edit Post
What is the point of white hole and is Buzz saw (qcf+2) complete garbage?
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Rezz
Dragon Lord
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 809
From: USA New York
PSN: RezzEternal
#139 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by igniz13
What is the point of white hole and is Buzz saw (qcf+2) complete garbage?


I don't know what white hole is but qcf+2 is most definitely NOT garbage. Granted it's not something you want to throw out every other move but it has it's uses if used smartly.
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igniz13
3rd Dan
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 35
From: United Kingdom
#140 “Quote” Edit Post
White hole is the vanish follow up she do after certain moves. Like df4,4,U
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