Flowchart, frametraps, etc: keep the offense going

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Sk37ch
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 509
From: USA New York
PSN: Sketchstation3
XBL: Sketch on 360
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
I am having a lot of trouble figuring out how to stay on people when they block.

Paul doesn't really seem to have much in the way of frametraps, but maybe I am missing something. All of his plus frame moves on block are so slow (ss1, f1+2, uf2, b1+2). b4 is decent as it is a standing low thats +1 on hit, but that is not much.

I find myself getting tired of having to play reckless at times just to gain some life lead. The phoenix smasher/demo man mixup works sometimes, but gets old after a while. Other characters seem to have faster mids that are +4 or higher on block, or fast highs on block. I think i get where Namco was going with Paul, as his attacks are really high damage to compensate for his frames on block possibly, but when you get to higher levels of play then you are faced with Mishimas f4/electrics or other characters with nice frame advantage. Pahl doesnt work well against that.

Whiff punishing with phoenix smasher, bone breaker, and ff4 at far range is the only reliable consistent strat i have. But thats only when ppl whiff. I find myself getting CH'd whenever i go for a frametrap with ss1 or f1+2 because the moves are so slow.

If i want to gain close range momentum, i usually find myself having to ss or hard guess a high and duck, or throw out a reversal. If i guess wrong, i lose half my life sometimes.

A couple things that do work:
-FC4 in ss in the background usually baits a whiff out of the opponent
-f1+2 into ss or backdash, then whiff punish. Thats IF i dont get CH'd when throwing out the f1+2.
-if opponent blocks my move and im negative, i throw out f1+4 because it has builtin ss

He doesnt have many delayable strings to make ppl hesitate or set up for a CH (it seems almost no one falls for the third hit of f2,3,1, even if you only do the first two most of the time).

Because of this, ive started to get more familiar with block punishing and trying to capitalize on any of my opponents unsafe stuff, especiay because Paul can launch -14 moves.

Share your thoughts. What do you do to keep Pauls momentum going?
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ViperSRT87
1st Dan
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
From: USA New Jersey
PSN: Vipersrt87
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
I have been trying to work on Tag 2, but I find myself just getting nailed no matter what. I have been using Paul since tekken 3. I always thought I was a decent player until I hit the online world in T6/TT2. I don't know what I can do to as you say keep the momentum going. Unless I just totally suck it does seem Paul is a far more limited character than I ever realized especially against these newer characters that are fast and just crazy with their move strings. Maybe its a mix of both. Heck I never run across another Paul player online. I find myself relying on dcb 3, 2,1 alot as well as the df+1 sway option. I try to avoid the Smasher because I know how easy it is to punish even though it is the staple of Paul's arsenal. I'd love to keep working to become a better player, but I don't know what to do from here. Sorry that really doesn't help answer your question sk37ch.
Signature Formerly Paul Phoenix 98.

bawsmaster3000
Kyu
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
From: Denmark
PSN: W3N33DS0M3W33D
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Ah, glad to see that I'm not the only one with this issue. It's frustrating to say the least. But, I find that b1+2 seems to draw out a lot of whiffs, as well as, d1 (along with the mix ups) and qcf4 or qcf3.

I'm usually against throws (hate it when people keep spammin' them), but if my opponent is constantly trying to keep Paul from his zone of destruction, then I simply start mixing up throws.
For instance, d1, b1+4 or if they're conveniently with their back to a wall a ff1+2 will do the job.

Surprisingly, a 1,4 will also do the job.

Sometimes, I also feel like it's kind of unbalanced in terms of what Paul can do against an opponent like Bob or Lars, who seem to always be on +frames as well as keeping me from ss due to their terrific tracking capabilities.

Bob, in particular, pisses me off due to his huge size and his ability to rapidly spam attacks that keep me from advantageously counterattacking. Although they all start getting cocky and start throwing out unsafe moves at one point or the other, which is where a 1,2,3 or d1 will be waiting.

To be honest, I have thought of shifting my focus away from Paul many times, but that raw strength coupled with the sound of a raging bear that is just urging to mate, is what keeps me sticking with Paul.

Last edited by bawsmaster3000 on Feb 5th, 2015 at 12:38

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ViperSRT87
1st Dan
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
From: USA New Jersey
PSN: Vipersrt87
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Howdy Bawsmaster. Welcome to the forums! Yes this sadly is an issue for us Paul fans. It seems that while many other characters have gotten upgrades to deal with these newer insane characters whose fighting styles are pure ridiculousness Paul has somehow gotten left behind. I think he has a great move list, but everything is just too risky to the point of making him unplayable as the top tier character that he once was. I hear you on wanting to give up. There is a rather extensive "I quit Paul" thread in the Tekken 5 Paul forum which shows this issue has been going on since Tekken 4 honestly. The best we can try to do is share strategies and hope we can unite an help each other out.
Signature Formerly Paul Phoenix 98.

bawsmaster3000
Kyu
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
From: Denmark
PSN: W3N33DS0M3W33D
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Thank you, Viper. I don't know about you, but I mainly use Paul solo. This indeed makes it more frustrating if I don't see the match going my way at all. Paul is very limited in what he can do, and I especially miss the d1,4,2 where the 4 actually was a sweeping low. I guess we gotta make do with what we have.

I forgot to mention that df2 also seems to make people whiff, as they don't know that it's safe on block and suspect that it's an unsafe move.

Something to look out for are reversals. I find it hard to fight a Jun or Asuka as they reverse almost every single poke I have. But that's where a qcb3 or a throw could be beneficial - that's if they don't see it coming.
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ViperSRT87
1st Dan
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
From: USA New Jersey
PSN: Vipersrt87
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Good points man. Honestly I have been working on a good tag team. I have had mixed results with the typical Paul/Law combo. I've begun experimenting with Paul/Baek. I figure a punisher character like Paul mixed with a fast character like Baek might work. Jury is still out though. Jun and Lili are killers. Asuka can be a pain too.
Signature Formerly Paul Phoenix 98.

bawsmaster3000
Kyu
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5
From: Denmark
PSN: W3N33DS0M3W33D
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
I've tried coupling Pual with Bryan with great results. Bryan, in my opinion, compliments Paul in more ways than one. Bryan is able to poke the hell out of a character and seems to be able to launch someone at any time making tag combos with Paul a breeze.

To my delight, I've battled a couple of Juns and Asukas and they all succumb to Bryan (Snake's edge when they try to do their reversal bs) as he uses a lot of elbows and knees, which makes him an even harder opponent.

The pacing of the battle also seems to change when I shift between Bryan and Paul, which toys a bit with the opponent's mind. It can go from slow to go in a second and that really compliments my playstyle with both charactes. Anyways, those were my two cents.
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ViperSRT87
1st Dan
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
From: USA New Jersey
PSN: Vipersrt87
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
I've heard they are a decent team. I'll have to look into that as well. Anything to help mix it up. I have to train on blocking lows as well. That seems to be a major weakness of mine and sadly Paul can't even capitalize as he doesn't have very many good low hits.

To make matters worse my controllers are killing me. For some reason I have a hard time doing qcf or qcb. While I am not making excuses I have indeed lost a match or two because I input qcf 2 and he just punched. Does anyone use any special controllers that might be more sensitive to inputs such as these?

Last edited by ViperSRT87 on Feb 6th, 2015 at 03:50

Signature Formerly Paul Phoenix 98.

Sugar Free
Raijin
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 610
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Paul is not really able to use frametraps, nor to make use of flowcharts, sadly.
At higher levels, he's reduced to a defensive whiff punisher, who sometimes hits and runs with 1hit safe moves.
This playstyle allows him to seldomly shift gears to surpise the opponent, but that gets very old and his horrible general framage allows only a very short offensive session, unless you feel like risking deathfist/demoman 50/50.

His best frametraps, except made for generic 1 jabs, all come from one move: d/f+1~b, which is a +3 on block and +9 on hit i14 mid, actually works and really fucks up opponents if used correctly, try it out.
ViperSRT87
1st Dan
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 19
From: USA New Jersey
PSN: Vipersrt87
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Thats exactly what I found sugar free. You have to spend your time trying to time punishers more than actually going on the offensive. It is tough because one wrong move and, especially with Tekken's obsession with juggling now, essentially means certain defeat.
Signature Formerly Paul Phoenix 98.

Sk37ch
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 509
From: USA New York
PSN: Sketchstation3
XBL: Sketch on 360
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
I dont mind d/f+1~b. The issue i have with it against high level players is that if you use any of the sway moves, theyre still not fast enough to interrupt jabs, even with the move @ +3, and some of them will eat a magic 4 CH.

If i see them block it, sometimes i have it in my mind to ss out of the sway and if the ss envokes a whiff, ill punish. If not, im blocking and im back to square 1.

Sometimes, i will d/f+1~b into SS cancel into f+1,2 to deal with ppl interrupting his sway mixups. I think if you just hold forward after the sway starts, it will cancel it into a regular move if the timing is right. That will get really smart players to start ducking the jabs, in which you can use d/f+1~b into SS cancel or forward cancel into a mid of choice.

You ever just harass ppl with d/f+1~b over and over? It scares ppl sometimes, haha.

I wilk start using it more to see if i get results.
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Mar
Shihan
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 118
From: Denmark
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Sway 1+2 crushes jabs and CH 4.
Exceptions: Highs with good hitboxes. EWGF, Steve b+1, Alisa CH 4...

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