Feng's Pressure Guide

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green)Lei
do it like old water
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#41 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kiwi
This says it all. He didnt know what you were doing but guess who won and who losted?

Everyone's favorite punching bag again, Feng.

Let me analyze it for you. Feng is strong in mix ups and pokes. He can be annoying when he goes crazy with mixups. But in the end, chipping 3% here and there vs jacks 70-90% juggle damage? Thats just not gonna work.

He can make 10 mistakes and it would cost him half the health bar.
You only need to make 2 mistakes and you have lost the match.

Thats the power of having high damage. About 80% of the cast has this advantage. The other 20% including Feng automatically have this DISadvantage. It sucks.

This is why turtling with Paul and Jack works. Because they can wait for an opening to pounce 70% of the bar.

Especially in a game like T6 where everything is about juggles and taking your opponent to the wall. From there its just a guessing game. Guess correctly, and you live with small health bar (to do what?). Guess incorrectly and youre gonna get pummeled again.

Playing with feng can be incredibly frustrating sometimes.


youre not wrong when u say Feng is relatively weak. but your argumentation becomes really irrational.
you know jack doesnt do 90% damage juggle, just as an example.


you mentioned Hao urself, he once became tekken god in korea. Yuu won the WCG qualification in japan.
this prooves that it is possible to be succesful with Feng. Furumizu with Lei in Japan as well.
if they can do it you can do it.
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OffInBed
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#42 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by green)Lei
not by far! Kaz is the best punisher in the game, so what?



d?you mean the skill the human player must have or the tools the character must have?


I was thinking of the skills a player must have, not the tools (not as much at least). It's up to the player to make sure they can punish to the best of their characters abilities. And yea, it's easier with some characters than it is with others, but Kaz won't win if he doesn't punish properly, meaning both execution and know WHAT to punish with are a factor.

That's my opinion of course.
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green)Lei
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#43 “Quote” Edit Post
what would you do if I play completely safe against you?
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OffInBed
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#44 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by green)Lei
what would you do if I play completely safe against you?


Well..it depends on the whole situation. Can't just put thoerize T6 fights. But if I had to answer, like..are you attacking but in a safe way? Cuz then I'd try to space you out and get some whiff punish in. If you're not attacking at all, I'd do my best to attack safely, and make you WANT to attack so I can try and exploit something. Throw some grabs in there and what not. Idk, when it comes to playing against a super safe player (omg Sluch first person i think of) I would try to poke and run. My health is higher so why attack if I'm in the lead? Let the clock run. If I get hit first then I'd have no other choice but to try to get some damage in.

Tough question. What would you say is more important than punishment?
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THE SCRUB ZILLA
Raijin
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#45 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by adipati
i'm gonna ask you guys.

what is the most important thing in Tekken?


The skill and determination of the PLAYER not the CHARACTER.

I put up plenty of my vids using Feng on youtube Kiwi. I even go to tournaments on a regular. As a matter of fact I will be attending one this weekend. As OffInBed stated you've fallen off somewhere along the way with Feng but not everyone deals with it the same way. Some of us are able to adjust while its obvious that some just can't. I'm far from being awesome but I'm sort of decent. Feel free to look up some recent footage of me.

BTW I'm interested in seeing your playstyle Kiwi. If you can I'd like to either get some games in with you or you could possibly record a match and upload it for us to view so we may get a better understanding of where you're coming from.
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green)Lei
do it like old water
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#46 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by OffInBed
Well..it depends on the whole situation. Can't just put thoerize T6 fights. But if I had to answer, like..are you attacking but in a safe way? Cuz then I'd try to space you out and get some whiff punish in. If you're not attacking at all, I'd do my best to attack safely, and make you WANT to attack so I can try and exploit something. Throw some grabs in there and what not. Idk, when it comes to playing against a super safe player (omg Sluch first person i think of) I would try to poke and run. My health is higher so why attack if I'm in the lead? Let the clock run. If I get hit first then I'd have no other choice but to try to get some damage in.

Tough question. What would you say is more important than punishment?


u see punishment requires unsafe moves by your opponent, that again means you dont really have influence on that. concentrate on things you can influence 100%
maybe u consider punishment as what Id rather summarize as anti-strategies, which of course is very important in T6.

the most important thing is that u base your decisions on how your opponent plays. this more like anti-strategies against your opponents mind

like Nin said when asked what is the most important thing in tekken:
"thinking faster than your opponent"
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OffInBed
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#47 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by green)Lei
u see punishment requires unsafe moves by your opponent, that again means you dont really have influence on that. concentrate on things you can influence 100%
maybe u consider punishment as what Id rather summarize as anti-strategies, which of course is very important in T6.

the most important thing is that u base your decisions on how your opponent plays. this more like anti-strategies against your opponents mind

like Nin said when asked what is the most important thing in tekken:
"thinking faster than your opponent"


Ahh. that's very true, although punishment is very important, thinking ahead IS the bigger picture. At the same time that's really broad. Also, that's pretty much a skill you can only develop through experience. What happens when two people are fighting eachother, and both are trying to think ahead of another @_@. that just all brings it back down to the player .-.
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green)Lei
do it like old water
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#48 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by OffInBed
What happens when two people are fighting eachother, and both are trying to think ahead of another


thats what happens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zPLcC-jwlc
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retsu_himura
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#49 “Quote” Edit Post
Character's tier plays a part, but ultimately it's the player's factor that contribute to the winning.

And about that feng is weak at offense issue, I think feng is average at offense, definitely not consider weak.
His juggle is also on the average, unless you are setting up for oki game.
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Kiwi
Shihan
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#50 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by retsu_himura
Character's tier plays a part, but ultimately it's the player's factor that contribute to the winning.

And about that feng is weak at offense issue, I think feng is average at offense, definitely not consider weak.
His juggle is also on the average, unless you are setting up for oki game.


Most of Fengs launchers are unsafe and slow. That makes his juggling abilities weak. Not average but weak.
Especially when you consider the reward: puny to average juggle damage.

His offense is just as weak. Most of his "long range" moves are predictable and easily blocked. Supposedly some of them are pretty safe on block but that does not make up for the fact that they have poor tracking and whiffs a lot. Youre just setting yourself up for CH.

Fengs real damage comes from his poking but his poking have no range whatsoever. df1, b4 etc are some of the better moves but you need to be like in your opponents face for that stuff. Anywhere outside of that and youre gonna whiff and punished.

Feng is a highly deceptive character. On paper his moves looks good with some of them being "safe" and shit. But his safe moves lack range and lack tracking meaning youre gonna get CH juggled a lot. Once youre starting to fall begind your opponent, fengs puny damage just means its going down the hill from there on. Its a losing battle.

Tier list is significant imo. Its quite easily understood once you pick a S tier character to play. You win more and with more ease.
retsu_himura
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#51 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kiwi
Most of Fengs launchers are unsafe and slow. That makes his juggling abilities weak. Not average but weak.
Especially when you consider the reward: puny to average juggle damage.

His offense is just as weak. Most of his "long range" moves are predictable and easily blocked. Supposedly some of them are pretty safe on block but that does not make up for the fact that they have poor tracking and whiffs a lot. Youre just setting yourself up for CH.

Fengs real damage comes from his poking but his poking have no range whatsoever. df1, b4 etc are some of the better moves but you need to be like in your opponents face for that stuff. Anywhere outside of that and youre gonna whiff and punished.

Feng is a highly deceptive character. On paper his moves looks good with some of them being "safe" and shit. But his safe moves lack range and lack tracking meaning youre gonna get CH juggled a lot. Once youre starting to fall begind your opponent, fengs puny damage just means its going down the hill from there on. Its a losing battle.

Tier list is significant imo. Its quite easily understood once you pick a S tier character to play. You win more and with more ease.


You make it sounds like all other character has quick and safe launcher and fast and good tracking long range move. But nope only a few characters has such abilities. Feng is definitely on the average with many others.

Tiers does play a part like I said, but it not the only winning factor.
Like wooden-man mentioned, if so every single tournament from the past till now would have won by the number one tier.
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wooden-man
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#52 “Quote” Edit Post
Yup, the average character launches at 15 frames. Only a few character has launcher faster than average.
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adipati
Raijin
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#53 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by adipati
i'm gonna ask you guys.

what is the most important thing in Tekken?


the most important thing in Tekken is

Defense.

Defense is the core of skills.

Lets make an example. In every high level tourney, like Korean Tekken Crash, what moments that leaves you in awe. What moments that makes you said that "this guy is goooood".
A match winning juggles from a desperate move? A taunt JU? Or a wall rape?
No. Its one time when someone managed to blocked an attack and turns the table around.
A time when a player managed stay calm, read his opponents moves, wait for an opening and takes it.

Yes, this game supports attacking character. Its easy to win when you use character with better attacking properties. But that doesnt make every player instantly win every times. A great player always has a great defense.

By defense, it not only blocking an attack, and punish. But it also ss-ing, bdc-ing, duck-ing, and throw breaking. its something that any character (high tier or low tier) could do.

Lets make an example again. The Ressurection. Consist of Knee and Hollowman. Both supporting Bryan and Lars. A heavy top character. But they rely to much on their attacking pattern. So, when a good player with unfamiliar attacking pattern comes, they faces defeat. In another example, JCDR has a great defense, but using a weak character. Armor King. But he, IMO, is the best player atm.

You all may knew it already. That its only takes an hour or so to learn a new character juggles, and starts winning with it. But it takes hundreds-thousands of matches to build up your defense.

Its easy to win a match with juggles even using any character you new of. Its not that hard to practicing Taunt JU, EWGF or iSW. And everyone can wallrape any body.

But to stay calm and rely on your defense? its a never ending process.
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OffInBed
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#54 “Quote” Edit Post
See, I could totally agree. I said punishment, including spacing, back dashing, breaking grabs and all that. But I guess defense is more true to the cause.


Man Kiwi you gotta stop posting in Feng threads, seriously dude you suck.
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adipati
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#55 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey guys.
i just want to tell you guys, that next week, in Indonesia, we're gonna held the WCG 2011 qualifier.
WTF is that has anything to do with me?, you possibly ask.

well, at the end of the week, we also gonna held a tournament called the PAN Asia Championship. Its an invitational event that participated around 13 countries in Asia. Including Korea and Japan. each countries WCG Tekken winner in asia will come and participate. i.e Yuu.
Yes, Yuu will be attending the tourney. if you dont believe me, just watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfxmcj8rHtE
Post macth, Yuu's got interviewed and he said he will come to Indonesia, and ready to fight untill the end.

So, as one of the PAN Asia tournament comitee, also a participant, hopefully i got the chances to "test" myself against the man himself, and doing some interview (FYI, i've interviewed Mr. Naps, Aris, Rain and so on) http://lzntekken.blogspot.com/2011/...-feat-rain.html

wish me luck.
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THE SCRUB ZILLA
Raijin
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#56 “Quote” Edit Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ8D...eature=youtu.be

Hey kiwi, when you get the chance take a look at this video. I attended a tournament recently and came in 9th place out of like 30 people plus I attended a team tournament which was hosted as a side event. I'm still fairly new compared to many of the guys who attend these events but I've been practicing hard with Feng. I advanced my team to the next part of the tourney which takes place in December.

The rules for this tournament was similar to Tekken Crash: Character locked if you win, random stages, first team to get 5 wins is the victor. The Feng that you'll see in this vid is me. As I have stated before I still have a long way to go and I have improved on some things since then but it still shows that Feng can be played at a competitive level and hold his own.
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Kiwi
Shihan
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#57 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by adipati
the most important thing in Tekken is

Defense.

Defense is the core of skills.

Lets make an example again. The Ressurection. Consist of Knee and Hollowman. Both supporting Bryan and Lars. A heavy top character. But they rely to much on their attacking pattern. So, when a good player with unfamiliar attacking pattern comes, they faces defeat. In another example, JCDR has a great defense, but using a weak character. Armor King. But he, IMO, is the best player atm.


The most important things in tekken is defense AND offense. If defense is the only thing that matters, the top tiers would all be turtles.

None of the S tiers are turtles. None of the A tiers are turtles. Not only that, but your view is too simplistic. Youre assuming that only turtles have defense when in fact some of the strongest S tier characters have almost just as good a defense as Paul, Jack or Feng.

You dont have to take my word for it, but anyone who has seen Rain, Nin, Knee, Sunchip, HOLEman (not hoLLOWman) Jcdr or other korean tekken gods play knows what I am talking about. Its quite simply stupid to think that only Feng has defense when Knee's bryan can barely get touched, plus he gets the full advantage of having MEGA OFFENSE. All it takes is just one slip and youre eating his taunts against the wall.

More over, if Tekken is all about defense, then how do you explain the fact that the first tekken gods were Bruce, Bryan and Bryan and than came the first turtle Feng. Hao remained tekken god for like 6 months or something and than dropped out. None of the full offense characters dropped out once.

So much for your "defense is the best" argument. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense. When bryan is pounding against the wall, he doesnt need defense, son. He doesnt care if our b4 is one of the best moves if we are eating jet uppers.

And since when is armor king a "weak" character. Man do you guys even know some basics of tekken? Armor King is probably the STRONGEST character in T6. And in T6BR he was STILL ranked A tier. What the fuck are you talking about when you say "weak" character.

@offinbed
Of course you would agree with him. Youre the same guy who thinks feng contributed "just as much" as Steve in the youtube video that I posted, when all Feng did was launch dragonuv in the air. It was Steve that took dragunov to the wall and it was steve that wallraped dragunov. The only thing feng did was launched dragunov in the air. Thats something that 40+ other characters could have done.

@scrubzilla
Your feng is pretty solid. You missed out on shitloads of damage though. But understandable since speed and just going batcrazy with feng is more important than following a strict strategy. But look at the characters you were fighting. Yoshimitsu, raven. lol they are almost as lowly ranked as feng is. The players playing them were pretty good but lets face it, they were all low tiers. If those players put as much effort in for example Lars as they would in C tier raven, you would probably have eaten dust.

Last edited by Kiwi on Nov 4th, 2011 at 22:16

THE SCRUB ZILLA
Raijin
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#58 “Quote” Edit Post
Its funny that you say that because again I'll state that I know of a Kuma player that usually ranks in the top 3 at the events I attend and please believe that there are a number of people who pick higher tiered characters (Lars, A. King). I've been getting better at this game and its not often that I've been ending up "biting dust". I promised to upload some footage and I'd like to see some of yours when possible.
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Kiwi
Shihan
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#59 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by THE SCRUB ZILLA
Its funny that you say that because again I'll state that I know of a Kuma player that usually ranks in the top 3 at the events I attend and please believe that there are a number of people who pick higher tiered characters (Lars, A. King). I've been getting better at this game and its not often that I've been ending up "biting dust". I promised to upload some footage and I'd like to see some of yours when possible.


Well tier just means that when two equal players meet, the one with the highest tier usually prevails. It doesnt say shit about low tiers not being able to win. If someone is truly an exceptional player he would win with any character.

BUT, if that exceptional player meets another exceptional player and they are both evenly matched, the victory usually goes to the higher tier.

I never said that low tier characters can not win tourneys.
Facing a higher tier like Lars in a tourney doesnt mean shit if that lars player is average. But face a Lars equal your skills, and you wont be gloating.
THE SCRUB ZILLA
Raijin
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#60 “Quote” Edit Post
No one's gloating. Those players that I fought were seasoned tourney players compared to me. I just got into the game a little over a year ago. My point is that you should stick with Feng regardless of what happens. I chose Feng because I like his fighting style and I think he looks cool. I'm not caught up in tiers for one I don't like easy characters. Feng is far from garbage despite what you may think. True, he used to be A tier but some things have been traded off. You just have to work with it. You seem to have a strong resemblance with a guy on youtube by the name of Elbotoo (or something like that.. I honestly think its you). I know its hard having your favorite go from S/A tier to B but we all had to deal with it and we all need to stick it through, you dig?
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