vs Ling matchup - how the fuck it work?

Page Splits
Share This Topic
Share
Subscribe/Jump Subscribe This Topic
< >
Reki
Kyu
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
From: Philippines
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
I've been playing against a couple of good lings since t5 and I'm still having the same problems against them: how to not live in fear of getting your shit Art of Pheonixed.

Just so that I won't get whiffed I have to play too respectful to the extent that I only have 5 moves left and all of them have to be done as reactive play or they too will get whiffed. f+3, b+4, d+4, ws+1 and hell sweep. I can't find any other moves that count as "productive" and the risk is higher than the reward.

Another problem is the complication of knowing when to even attack when both players are at +0 and ling is back turned. When and what are you supposed use when this happens?

Oh yeah, what the fuck is even godfistable? I used to be able to ssl her df+1 spam then she caught on and just bulldogged with 2,1 into backturn play. I can probably watch out for her backturn, hold db, ws+2 but I'm back to square one if she catches on and does something else.

Is there even a way to put any sort of pressure by any chance? Ling blocking a f+4 limits her options to an extent but I still can't get anything consistent to force her into a block state.

So what should be the "mindset" against ling? Block and throw escape everything while praying that your 5 moves won't get whiffed leading to your ass getting juggled?

Help pls
Lingmassacre
I failed.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4504
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: lingmass
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
ff2
Signature Dinosaur: "You could have saved Tekken!"
LM: "I tried."
Dinosaur: "YOU FAILED!"
Reki
Kyu
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
From: Philippines
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Lingmassacre
ff2

use ff2 on what?

help me guys, I've been up for a couple of days monitoring and I'm still ass-bleeding mad.
Shotokan
#Unity
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2771
From: Australia
PSN: ShotokanAU
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Use d+1 more, it's an excellent long range move with a low hitbox.
Signature Shotokan#U
willus259
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc45/snesfreak/unity.gif
Raiden
Mishima Xiaobatsu
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2031
From: United States
PSN: RaidenNC
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
f+3. It tracks to your left (her right), which is the direction that aop auto sidesteps anyway. Combine this with the fact that it has a crazy low hit box.

ff+2 tracks, scoops really low, and is good to discourage aop.

besides that, turtle and ssl. Her tracking is terrible. You're scared of getting aop'd. She should be scared of getting ss'd/sw'd and launched.

Unless you're a character like Nina, its hard to "put pressure" on Ling. She's built that way. She however, has a hard time putting any real fear into you if you block and break throws. Ling is my main, and I'm working on Hei as a secondary. To really get real damage on a turtling opponent a ling player almost has to fear over extending themselves. Her lows are more annoying than scary and her throws are average. Her real mixup potential comes from RDS, where her throws are unseeable. But even then, she has to first get into back-turned safely, and commit to guessing games that still sometimes favor the opponent.

So I would say as far as mindsets go, change your approach, and let her come to you. You have scarier lows and punishers.
Signature TTT2: Return of the Mishima Xiaobatsu:

~God Bless~
VargasTheSick
Tekken God
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1578
From: Canada
PSN: VargasTheSick
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
What shotokan said, d+1 is a great long range mid that will poke her out of AOP. Also don't forget to throw out the odd u,f+4 to low crush any of her shenanigans. Another good poke I use is simply d,f+4, it's quick and helps keep her in check.
Signature " Come back when you've learned how to fight. "
Lingmassacre
I failed.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 4504
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: lingmass
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
Please guys. Just stop.

Reki. FF+2. Repeatedly. JUST KEEP DOING IT. And when it lands, DO A JUGGLE.
Signature Dinosaur: "You could have saved Tekken!"
LM: "I tried."
Dinosaur: "YOU FAILED!"
Syn_SC
Destroyer
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 386
From: United Kingdom
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Ff2 goes through AoP?
Signature Dorya!
Raiden
Mishima Xiaobatsu
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2031
From: United States
PSN: RaidenNC
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Syn_SC
Ff2 goes through AoP?


I was testing it earlier. ff2 will hit more than low enough to scoop aop. But if ling does ssr aop then you will miss unless you delay it.

to test I recording ling doing 1,D+2, ssr AOP and tried to catch her in between. It actually avoided more than I thought it would (which as a ling player I don't mind...). ff2 was one of the few things that would catch her, but like I said it had to be delayed quite a bit.
Signature TTT2: Return of the Mishima Xiaobatsu:

~God Bless~
Syn_SC
Destroyer
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 386
From: United Kingdom
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
How did OTGF perform vs this setup?
(I'm not joking, this is genuinely my go-to power mid.)
Signature Dorya!
Reki
Kyu
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3
From: Philippines
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for the replies, I've been reading and labbing everything.

Originally posted by VargasTheSick
the odd u,f+4

Could you please clarify this. Is this a typo?

Originally posted by Lingmassacre
ff2 ff2 ff2

I apologize if you think I'm new here because I can't seem to remember my old account so please eat a dick. The move only works if the ling player is far away, does AoP then suddenly gets a seizure. Good lings will bait it out since it's too predictable due to multiple factors and I will elaborate why.

Originally posted by Syn_SC
How did OTGF perform vs this setup?
(I'm not joking, this is genuinely my go-to power mid.)

Never tried, sorry. I think the move is shit. Does it track?


I think I now have a good understanding on how the matchup goes and I conclude that it's ass bleeding hard if you're against good lings and I have moderate mishima skills even if I've been playing them since tekken 3.

Here's my findings:

Ling can ssr into AoP and be "invincible" to your linear shit EVEN on a fucking -5 disadvantage. To detail this "invincibility" which you think is exaggerated, get a ling player to do ssr then AoP and try to hit her with the 1st hit of hellsweep after she blocks your standing 2 ( +/- 0). Yes it whiffs even if you could clearly see the fucking leg passing through her body. If she's +2~3 she could even whiff generic d+4s.

To deal with this bullshit, you can catch her ssr with these requirements:
1) a full tracking move
2) not go over 19 frames
3) mid or low
4) has low hitboxes

If any of the above is missing she fucking glitches and it whiffs. For hei it's b+4 (devil jin's fucked btw because his is f+1+2). A good example of a move that you think will hit but doesn't is b+2 just because it's lacking 3 frames. Now here's the catch, b+4 is fucking risky because ling can beat it with a non ss AoP or magic 4 and both are juggle starters.

Another way to deal with her ssr AoP is to wait for the glitch's duration to finish around 5 frames then hit her with a low hitting mid. Unfortunately, because of that 5 frames of leaving her alone, you will inevitably run into annoying shit like AoP 2 mixups or worse AoP uf3,3 (safe on block m,h).

I can even go over how fucking annoying her backturn mixups also are to further complicate this glitchy matchup if anyone's interested.

If you want to play standard with hei against ling, you should only use d+1 and d+4. Note that both still have a high risk of getting whiffed (ling can juggle in reaction to the whiff). If the ling doesn't play standard, you can easily punish and get a lifelead to force her to play even more risky and give you opportunities. But here's another fucking catch, there's a difference between defending against a player that respects your defense and a player that doesn't. Good lings will know your options against her are horse shit and have little to no reward. The little shit will do moves that are risky against people with updated hitboxes and homing like lars but are stupidly safe against hei. Sometimes you'll never see her block even once and hei can't capitalize on it.

>luck
>tag button for your secondary character with a better matchup against ling
pick one
Kenshobu
Shihan
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 118
From: Norway
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Doesn't take a genius to figure out that Ling is a sh!t character designed for stupid players.

I know in fact, that Ling is "invincible", i have HIT her MANY times and it just passed through her body, when she does that roll, she gets invincible. ( Seen that female characters who can do similar stunts also get "invincible" ).

This is a huge FAIL, I hate fighting against Ling players, they have ZERO brain, ZERO skills, they just mash like a retard, why? BECAUSE THEY CAN!
They can because none of her moves have punishment, sometimes they do, sometimes not, WTF?
So i did Heihachi's 1+2 ( like Ka me ha me ha move, in case you're a ling player and don't know sh!t about Tekken inputs ) so i did that on Ling... Guess what? She rolled towards it, and i was like: idiot.
- BUT THEN, Nothing happened?... It just "whiffed", IT WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER BODY!
Head,torso/back, and arms, that's what i hit but it still missed.. ( it was a clear 100% frontal attack, she didn't "sidestep roll" it, it was a 101% hit ).

It seems that on some retarded sh!t "moves", the best you can do is DEFEND, if you try to fight against it, you will be Overruled by TEKKEN LOGIC ( it hit her face but she wore Nivea face cream so the fist just "slided" away ).

So kunt-imitsus duck got fixed ( used to dodge mid attacks by ducking ), but Ling's stupid sh!t hasn't been fixed yet, since Tekken 6 at least.

I feel you bro, but some character's are JUST designed for retarded people, they have a huge advantage with auto dodge ( the thing you call "invincibility", i call it auto dodge ).
Ling has some of the best auto dodge in THE Game, really annoying.
So sh!tty characters are easy to spot, their cheap, they auto dodge, almost never need to defend, that's your typical retarded character for retarded people.

Honorable auto-dodgers:
Jun, Law, Paul, Chreddy, Leo ( YEAHH!! ), and some other junkies.

Only a few character's fight fair with a good combat sport. ( and who actually have punishment and almost no auto-dodge ).

Hei is a very difficult character to learn, his combos are challenging, but it's worth it, he has so many cool moves and his mid range is good, use that to your advantage. And how can you hate on the dude? He's a"Old" bad-ass grandpa still kicking butt's to this day. I love that dude man. ZEHAHAHA!

Just put up with the sh!t and try to "hit" her when she's not jumping around like a idiot, i think d+1+2 with Hei can be good at close range against her, not sure tho, but i will try that next time.

Good luck my friend..
omara95
Destroyer
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 392
From: Ireland
PSN: pdomara
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
I find demon scissors to be really good when she is in AOP...
The Game
EMP The Game
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 19835
From: USA New York
PSN: DsSGame
XBL: TheSynGame
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Reki
I apologize if you think I'm new here because I can't seem to remember my old account so please eat a dick. The move only works if the ling player is far away, does AoP then suddenly gets a seizure. Good lings will bait it out since it's too predictable due to multiple factors and I will elaborate why.


Here's my findings:

Ling can ssr into AoP and be "invincible" to your linear shit EVEN on a fucking -5 disadvantage. To detail this "invincibility" which you think is exaggerated, get a ling player to do ssr then AoP and try to hit her with the 1st hit of hellsweep after she blocks your standing 2 ( +/- 0). Yes it whiffs even if you could clearly see the fucking leg passing through her body. If she's +2~3 she could even whiff generic d+4s.

To deal with this bullshit, you can catch her ssr with these requirements:
1) a full tracking move
2) not go over 19 frames
3) mid or low
4) has low hitboxes

If any of the above is missing she fucking glitches and it whiffs. For hei it's b+4 (devil jin's fucked btw because his is f+1+2). A good example of a move that you think will hit but doesn't is b+2 just because it's lacking 3 frames. Now here's the catch, b+4 is fucking risky because ling can beat it with a non ss AoP or magic 4 and both are juggle starters.

Another way to deal with her ssr AoP is to wait for the glitch's duration to finish around 5 frames then hit her with a low hitting mid. Unfortunately, because of that 5 frames of leaving her alone, you will inevitably run into annoying shit like AoP 2 mixups or worse AoP uf3,3 (safe on block m,h).

I can even go over how fucking annoying her backturn mixups also are to further complicate this glitchy matchup if anyone's interested.

If you want to play standard with hei against ling, you should only use d+1 and d+4. Note that both still have a high risk of getting whiffed (ling can juggle in reaction to the whiff). If the ling doesn't play standard, you can easily punish and get a lifelead to force her to play even more risky and give you opportunities. But here's another fucking catch, there's a difference between defending against a player that respects your defense and a player that doesn't. Good lings will know your options against her are horse shit and have little to no reward. The little shit will do moves that are risky against people with updated hitboxes and homing like lars but are stupidly safe against hei. Sometimes you'll never see her block even once and hei can't capitalize on it.

>luck
>tag button for your secondary character with a better matchup against ling
pick one


The man you are telling to "eat a dick" is actually one of the best lings in the US. Usually when he posts something sarcastic or not, he's usually on point with it. And he's right. wd ff+2 hits AOP constantly. Good lings might avoid it but smart hei players will learn how and when to use ff2.
Signature <pukey>: ddp had a better flair
Champion Law of America
Team USA
Top Tier DJ strat:
I'm new to the game but i find that the best way to win is to use f+3 then keep on using 3+4, f+1+2 until there dead.
Sasaki Kojiro
2nd Dan
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 21
From: North Korea
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
so, ff2 does well against ling. nice insight.

Kinda curious about how well ws1 does against ling and her AoP.

Anyhow, what's the best option against her when she's BT or in RDS? Her kangaroo kicks seem to go through a lot plus she has this punch parry thing from RDS. I'm guessing at the moment the bf+2,2 could be an option if the first hit is an "elbow" and if its fast/low-hitting enough.

I wish this thread could be renamed for something more general like "vs stance/unconventional characters match up". Curious too about heihachi vs capos.
Signature Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.
The Game
EMP The Game
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 19835
From: USA New York
PSN: DsSGame
XBL: TheSynGame
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
bt roll do f3. hits outta anything especially that annoying as parry.
Signature <pukey>: ddp had a better flair
Champion Law of America
Team USA
Top Tier DJ strat:
I'm new to the game but i find that the best way to win is to use f+3 then keep on using 3+4, f+1+2 until there dead.
Abigan2K
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 3850
From: Philippines
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
ling's AOP upclose is hella annoying as hei.. it goes under df+1 and she can crush your d+4 with an AOP u/f+3 launcher

you'll have to space really well

backdash ws+4 is a good tool you can start with as hei if ling aggresively bulldogs you
The Game
EMP The Game
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 19835
From: USA New York
PSN: DsSGame
XBL: TheSynGame
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
db2 on hit ff2 after if they go to aop. make the respect your frames. dont do it all the time.
Signature <pukey>: ddp had a better flair
Champion Law of America
Team USA
Top Tier DJ strat:
I'm new to the game but i find that the best way to win is to use f+3 then keep on using 3+4, f+1+2 until there dead.
BlackViper55
War Lord
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 718
From: Philippines
PSN: RenegadeBlade27
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kenshobu
Doesn't take a genius to figure out that Ling is a sh!t character designed for stupid players.

I know in fact, that Ling is "invincible", i have HIT her MANY times and it just passed through her body, when she does that roll, she gets invincible. ( Seen that female characters who can do similar stunts also get "invincible" ).

This is a huge FAIL, I hate fighting against Ling players, they have ZERO brain, ZERO skills, they just mash like a retard, why? BECAUSE THEY CAN!
They can because none of her moves have punishment, sometimes they do, sometimes not, WTF?
So i did Heihachi's 1+2 ( like Ka me ha me ha move, in case you're a ling player and don't know sh!t about Tekken inputs ) so i did that on Ling... Guess what? She rolled towards it, and i was like: idiot.
- BUT THEN, Nothing happened?... It just "whiffed", IT WAS RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER BODY!
Head,torso/back, and arms, that's what i hit but it still missed.. ( it was a clear 100% frontal attack, she didn't "sidestep roll" it, it was a 101% hit ).

It seems that on some retarded sh!t "moves", the best you can do is DEFEND, if you try to fight against it, you will be Overruled by TEKKEN LOGIC ( it hit her face but she wore Nivea face cream so the fist just "slided" away ).

So kunt-imitsus duck got fixed ( used to dodge mid attacks by ducking ), but Ling's stupid sh!t hasn't been fixed yet, since Tekken 6 at least.

I feel you bro, but some character's are JUST designed for retarded people, they have a huge advantage with auto dodge ( the thing you call "invincibility", i call it auto dodge ).
Ling has some of the best auto dodge in THE Game, really annoying.
So sh!tty characters are easy to spot, their cheap, they auto dodge, almost never need to defend, that's your typical retarded character for retarded people.

Honorable auto-dodgers:
Jun, Law, Paul, Chreddy, Leo ( YEAHH!! ), and some other junkies.

Only a few character's fight fair with a good combat sport. ( and who actually have punishment and almost no auto-dodge ).

Hei is a very difficult character to learn, his combos are challenging, but it's worth it, he has so many cool moves and his mid range is good, use that to your advantage. And how can you hate on the dude? He's a"Old" bad-ass grandpa still kicking butt's to this day. I love that dude man. ZEHAHAHA!

Just put up with the sh!t and try to "hit" her when she's not jumping around like a idiot, i think d+1+2 with Hei can be good at close range against her, not sure tho, but i will try that next time.

Good luck my friend..


In my experience Mishimas are easier to use than Ling. Although I'm quite trash (just started learning EWGF in T6BR), I can utilize Mishimas better than Ling (although I wanna pick up Miharu in TTT2). Personally I'd rather learn execution-based characters and get rewarded for it than to learn stance-based characters and risk defeat.
Signature My TTT2 Teams:
Males: Devil Jin/Armor King, Paul/Heihachi, Marduk/Jack-6, Lee/Hwoarang, Ancient Ogre/Jinpachi
Females: Miharu/Asuka, Michelle/Jun, Kunimitsu/Zafina, Jaycee/Anna, Lili/Nina
But I always pick different teams

 All times are GMT. The time now is 00:59

Page Splits
Moderator Tools
Forum Jump