#BuffLars - TTT2 Lars Matchup Analysis

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Demoyon
prisoner of desires
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2665
From: Philippines
#81 “Quote” Edit Post
What do you guys think about adding escape options to throw oki here? It'll list what you should do vs (character) if you successfully get grabbed by (insert throw here).

I have a few I can add, but I want to know if it'll be worth it to post everything here.
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|Galen|
In iWS1 I trust!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9568
PSN: Galen-SDT
XBL: Galen SDT
#82 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Demoyon
What do you guys think about adding escape options to throw oki here? It'll list what you should do vs (character) if you successfully get grabbed by (insert throw here).

I have a few I can add, but I want to know if it'll be worth it to post everything here.


It would actually be really really useful. Throw oki is naaaasty from some characters.
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Morninglord
Synthetic Insanity
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2496
PSN: Morninglord
#83 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dr4g0n
They can get away at the ranges I'm using it. I use db4 as a keep-away tool. I suppose that's why I'll backdash away, even on hit.

*shrugs*

I'll agree that close up, WS2 has the amazing range; but at max range of db4 (I'm talking like the very tip of Lars' ballerina toes), it'll get them if they don't move, but most characters can backdash out of the way.


Ah. I used to do that until people started running in and low blocking and collecting their free juggle.

Now I'm more cautious about it. Especially since at the distance you are talking about you don't get a juggle anyway so it's really not worth the risk.
Signature Zhan: The real enemy is yourself.
Demoyon
prisoner of desires
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2665
From: Philippines
#84 “Quote” Edit Post
I guess I'll start with the throw oki thing. I don't remember everything though, so I'll post a little bit at a time. Also, I don't know a good format for this, so if anyone can suggest a good one, that would be great. For now, I'll post the character, throw, your options, and what you lose to.

Note: sideroll left means rolling toward where your character's left side is. Same goes for right side.
Example: 1P side, FUFT position. Sideroll left is rolling to the background, sideroll right is rolling to the foreground.

Roll away means rolling away from your opponent, be it front roll or back roll.
Rolling toward your opponent (after getting thrown) is stupid and should almost always never be done. You will get floated by pretty much anything.



Avoiding Throw Oki



1+3 - leaves you in FUFA position
Do nothing: loses to d+4, df+3, and qcb+4
Quickstand: loses to f+1+3_f+2+4 (back throw)
Sideroll left: loses to db+3 and df+3
Sideroll right: loses to d+4, df+3, and qcb+4
Roll away: loses to run up f+1+3_f+2+4 (back throw), may also lose to run up 3,3,2 (from behind)

My suggestion: Sideroll left is the safest option and allows for the least damage before you get up safely.

2+4 - leaves you in FDFA position and really close to Bryan
Do nothing: loses to d+4, df+3, and qcb+4
Quickstand: loses to d+1 (float) and db+2 (float)
Sideroll left: loses to d+4, df+3, and qcb+4
Sideroll right: loses to db+3 and df+3
Roll away: loses to dash db+2 (float)

My suggestion: Sideroll right and DO NOT GET UP. The d+1 float option can be followed up by ws+3, which floats you if you try to get up after the sideroll.

ff+1+2 - leaves you in FUFA position with a slight diagonal angle
Do nothing: loses to d+4, df+3, and qcb+4
Quickstand: loses to f+1+3_f+2+4 (back throw)
Sideroll left: loses to dash db+3
Sideroll right: loses to d+4, df+3, and qcb+4
Roll away: completely safe

My suggestion: Roll away. You're safe from any follow-up, but will probably be on the defensive if Bryan dashes in and attacks.

FC df,d,df+1+2 - leaves you in FUFA position and at the same distance as his 1+3 throw.
Refer to the 1+3 throw for oki options.

Left side throw - leaves you face-up with your left side next to Bryan
Do nothing: loses to d+4, db+3, df+3, and qcb+4
Quickstand: ???
Sideroll left: ???
Sideroll right: ???
Roll away: ???

My suggestion: I honestly don't know what to do here because I very rarely get hit by this.

Right side throw - leaves you in FUFT position far away from Bryan
Quickstand: completely safe

My suggestion: just quickstand. Other options aren't worth exploring because quickstand is safe and gets you back to parity faster.

Back throw - leaves you in FUFA position far away from Bryan
Quickstand: completely safe

My suggestion: just quickstand. Other options aren't worth exploring because quickstand is safe and gets you back to parity faster.
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dr4g0n
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 653
From: Australia
#85 “Quote” Edit Post
Sorry for being AWOL, guys. Work is a bitch.

@Morninglord: No juggle, but then again, you screw over people who like to WD into your face, and make you guess, so I'll take that anyday. Used sparingly (so I'm not too predictable), of course, but it's an option.

@Demoyon: Good shit. Cos of the word limit restriction thingy, I'm gonna have to just put a link to that post, but what you're doing is awesome. Appreciate it
Signature Requirements for PA: Must tie shoelaces, and give head

FC.df1+2; uf1+2

...CLOSE ENOUGH
LuizWsp
Virtuoso
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 212
#86 “Quote” Edit Post
What are Lars weaknesses? If he has any...

I can't really think of a good strategy to keep out his pressure, mixed up with those safe launchers, sooner or later they are going to hit me, and it's all so safe, I feel like I can't to anything about it.

Whenever I play a Lars, they keep pressuring me with those safe mid's with ton of range that track both sides and hit eihter my AOP, RDS and even capo's RLX. They mix up with grabs and those fast lows.

I can't CH him efficiently, since he usually evades everything and outranges me more often than not, but erytime I get CH or floated, it's an easy combo with high damage and good oki and I'm dead.

And there's also the problem of that uf4. Playing as Lars, what are you afraid or when you throw that out? getting jabbed, or whiffing it?

I feel like I need to know Lar's weaknesses to get around this game, and try to play him where he is weaker.
Bopper
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2056
From: Sweden
PSN: MAGUNITO
#87 “Quote” Edit Post
He has a really hard time tracking SWR. Basiclly all hes got is d+4 and delay tactics. uf+4 has 0 tracking in either direction, just SW it or block.
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LuizWsp
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 212
#88 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Bopper
He has a really hard time tracking SWR. Basiclly all hes got is d+4 and delay tactics. uf+4 has 0 tracking in either direction, just SW it or block.


Capos have really hard time with linear characters cause their ss is very bad and their SW is nonexistant
Bopper
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2056
From: Sweden
PSN: MAGUNITO
#89 “Quote” Edit Post
uf+4 is still avoidable with a simple SS, as well as being -9 on block meaning offence over. I dont really see the issue with that move. If capo SS is too bad to SSR Lars df+1 (it shouldnt be) then yeah i guess its a tough matchup.
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dr4g0n
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 653
From: Australia
#90 “Quote” Edit Post
@Luizwsp: For the record, uf4 is only really good if the lars player is either already in your head, or you're really scared. You can easily jab it for float. Or, if it whiffs, you have enough time to go out, order a coffee, drink it, have an interesting chat with a random stranger, THEN come back and launch it.

That move is TERRIBLE on whiff.

Of all the things you mentioned, only db2,1 hits Capos RLX/Ling's AOP. And then, only the first hit connects. If you feel pressured, Capos b1 string is amazing. As is random RLX, watch stuff whiff, then punish accordingly.

Also, if your opponent is jab-happy, df2 is your friend. It has a few frames (enough frames) to beat out jabs, and you get a free qcf3 afterwards. If they twitch, you get the b3,3 into whatever juggle you feel like.

As a dude who has played Lars almost since I started playing this game, I can confidently say, I freaking hate playing vs Capos.
Signature Requirements for PA: Must tie shoelaces, and give head

FC.df1+2; uf1+2

...CLOSE ENOUGH
|Galen|
In iWS1 I trust!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9568
PSN: Galen-SDT
XBL: Galen SDT
#91 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dr4g0n
@Luizwsp: For the record, uf4 is only really good if the lars player is either already in your head, or you're really scared. You can easily jab it for float. Or, if it whiffs, you have enough time to go out, order a coffee, drink it, have an interesting chat with a random stranger, THEN come back and launch it.

That move is TERRIBLE on whiff.

Of all the things you mentioned, only db2,1 hits Capos RLX/Ling's AOP. And then, only the first hit connects. If you feel pressured, Capos b1 string is amazing. As is random RLX, watch stuff whiff, then punish accordingly.

Also, if your opponent is jab-happy, df2 is your friend. It has a few frames (enough frames) to beat out jabs, and you get a free qcf3 afterwards. If they twitch, you get the b3,3 into whatever juggle you feel like.

As a dude who has played Lars almost since I started playing this game, I can confidently say, I freaking hate playing vs Capos.


Speaking of hating capos... have you had a chance to try dick punching d+3,3 or WS1,3?

Remember: dick punch CC d/b+2,1 d/b+2~f SE d/f+1 OR I think you can even do dick punch CC 1 f+4,1,2 d/b+2~f SE d/f+1 (I'm not completely sure about the second one, but I think it should work.)
Signature In iWS1 I trust!
Battle Jitni- @Galen: (imagine that's a middle finger instead)
Mr. Taxi- "Galen, I don't consider you an Anna player. I have this theory that all Anna players like penis. So until you S a D you aren't an Anna player"
Dilly a couple months after he found out he was expecting- "Galen, Sith, in 9 months I'm challenging you both to diaper matches. Loser buys diapers for the winner. "
dr4g0n
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 653
From: Australia
#92 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by |Galen|
Speaking of hating capos... have you had a chance to try dick punching d+3,3 or WS1,3?

Remember: dick punch CC d/b+2,1 d/b+2~f SE d/f+1 OR I think you can even do dick punch CC 1 f+4,1,2 d/b+2~f SE d/f+1 (I'm not completely sure about the second one, but I think it should work.)


Actually, I have, and it works (the first one, anyway). Sorry, I haven't updated the MU analyses in a while. I've really been swamped at work.

Not sure about the second. I feel like the timing will be a lot tighter, but I'll give it a go when I get the chance.
Signature Requirements for PA: Must tie shoelaces, and give head

FC.df1+2; uf1+2

...CLOSE ENOUGH
LuizWsp
Virtuoso
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 212
#93 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for the tips guys. The basic reason I hate Lars is cause his optimum distance of play is exacly the distance I play, so I end up just in the range of beeing hit by uf4, and db2,1 punishes my whiffs on both stances, far and close, and its safe. I just have to adapt I think, try to fish a whiffing uf4 and punish it, or just pressure without the stances.

BTW, whats dick punishing? Dick punching?
Bopper
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2056
From: Sweden
PSN: MAGUNITO
#94 “Quote” Edit Post
Dick punch = generic d+1
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Katt
Berserker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 407
From: Norway
PSN: iMKatt
#95 “Quote” Edit Post
To be more precise; a 1-jab from full crouch.

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