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IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3031
From: Canada
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Post your vs strats here, edits and updates will be made over time.


Characters covered so far:

Jun
Asuka
Paul
Lei - Thanks to Dynasty
Unknown
Bob/Slim Bob
Lars
Baek - Thanks to Budding Fighter, NEEDS EDITS AND UPDATES.
Capos (Eddy, Christie and Tiger)
Ancient Ogre
Bruce
Bryan
True Ogre
Dragunov
Leo
Jack 6/P.Jack
Marshall and Forest Law
Ling - Thanks to MADAXES
Hworang
Ganryu
Lili - Thanks to MADAXES
Anna - Thanks to MADAXES



Vs Jun.

Frame Data:

http://rbnorway.org/jun-ttt2-frames/


Key Moves/Punishment:

1,3: i10, -1 on NH, -12 on block hl.

1,2,4: -12 on block hhm string.

1,4: Jab into leg cutter, easier to LP than 1,3.

1,1,4_d4: Asuka's 1,1 series into either cancans or sweep. Asuka also has 1,1,3 as a mid ender. Both low options are delayable so look for that and LP.

f1,4_d4_3: i20 mid into low, mid series. See above. f1,d4 combos on CH. f1,3 is -5 on block.

2,1,4: i12, -12 on block hmm.

2,1,4,1: -10 on block hmmm. Punish the punch.

2,1,4,3: -12 on block hmmh. Duck the kick.

1+2: i14, ch launcher with breakable stun, -11 on block.

1+4: i14 lh 'Three Ring Circus'/'White Heron Dance' string. Crouch jab after the 4 on block or NH to nullify 1+4's canned options.

f2~5 'Tooth Fairy': i17, -20 on block, taggable. Never, ever whiff against Kazamas because of this move but on block df2,1~5 is very free.

db4,4,4_db4,3_db4,4,3 etc: i22, 'Leg Cutter' series: Fuzzy guard the mid cartwheel and LP the second sweep either on block or hit after the first one. -11 on block. If the second or third hits of Leg Cutter RC with ~d they become -7 on block.

df1,1: i13 mm poke string. Not NC, -9 on block, +4 on hit. df1 is +8 on hit - 3 on block.

df2,2: i17 mm delayable homing move. df2 is -10 on block, df2,2 is -13 on block.

df3: i18 w! splatting mid. -11 with major pushback.

d4,4: i15 lh string. Take the first low on NH, crouch and launch the second hit on whiff.

d3+4~5: i14 'Cancans'. Low high CH launcher which jails after taking the first hit. The low is -25 on block the high is -6.

db2: i20, +2 on NH, -12 on block TC low.

db3: i22 +4 on NH, KND on CH, TC low, -15 on block.

b2,1,1: i14, -13 on block mhm. Punish the punch.

b2,1,4: mhh. Duck the kick.

b2,3: -19 on block. Hopkick or df2,1~5.

b3~5: i16 -23 on block evasive high/low crush taggable launcher with pushback. Punish with b1+2 for a full combo.

b4,2: i13 punisher. -13 on block mm HC string +5 on NH, second hit combos on CH.

b1,2: i29 TC low attack throw. Very slow so either hopkick, LP or block punish at -12.

uf4,3: i16 hopkick. uf4 is -20 on block, uf4,3 is -13. There is no delay so punishing the first hit isn't a problem.

ff2,2_3: i18 series. ff2 is -13 on block, ff2,2 is -17, ff2,3 mh.

ff4: i15~i16 CH launcher like Jin's f4. -14 on block.

2+3: i28 punch parry. 0 on block.

ws4: i11, -12 on block with no pushback.

ws1,4,2_1+2: i15 ws1,4 series. ws1,4,2 RC and is -16 on block. ws1,4,1+2 is -20 on block. ws1,4 is -11.

ws2,1: i14 mh. Duck the second hit and launch.

ws3~5: i19, -20 on block taggable launcher. Pushback so either qcf2~5 or ff3 block punish.

ws1+2: i21 mid, cancelable CH launcher. TC during later frames. -2 on block.

ss2: i16 ss punch similar to Asuka's ss2 but less evasive. -12 on block.

ss4: i18 mid axe kick. +5 on block OC. +7 NH OC, KND on CH.

FC df2: i16 TC, -11 on block low. 0 on NH, launch on CH. Take the hit and either crouch jab_d3, or swr.

FC 3+4: i21 TJ. -6 on block +5 OC on hit.

FC 3+4,3: Jun can hold ~d to RC. 0 on block OC. Jab_CH4 to interrupt and float the second hit or sw it to either direction.

b1+3_b2+4: Counter. Asuka's can be extended by holding b1+3_2+4. Cannot counter lows_throws_headbutts knees or elbows. See chickening*.

f1+2 IZU: i23, +7 on block high homing attack into IZU stance options.

b1+2 GEN: i14 TC evasive backstep into GEN stance options. Passive movement that auto-parries lows and auto-counters throws like Anna's 'CAT Stance'.



Stances:

Jun can enter her GEN and IZU stances maunually with b1+2 for GEN and f1+2 for IZU. f1+2 IZU is an i23 +7 on block high homing move. All GEN options are safe on block with GEN 1 being a +3 OC NH low and GEN 4 being a +4 on block TJ high.

String transitions into IZU and GEN. The same strings can also be sw cancelled. Because IZU is a high attack once you can ID the transitional strings you can duck IZU and launch punish it.

1,2~f1+2_b1+2_u_d:
b2,1~f1+2_b1+2_u_d:
1+4~f1+2_b1+2_u_d:
f3~f1+2_b1+2_u_d:


GEN. Manually entered with b1+2:

GEN 1: i20 TC low, -13 on block +3 on hit. Can be hopkicked, trades with crouch jabs.
GEN 2: i16 mid, -8 on block, +5 on hit. Cannot be interrupted.
GEN 3: i17 mid, -4 OC on block, +4 OC on hit, combo on CH.
GEN 4: i26 high, homing TJ attack. +4 on block, KND on hit. Can be floated with jabs/hopkicks or ducked.


Notes for + frames into GEN:

A common setup for GEN is 1,2 on hit into GEN - Note that when in GEN stance Jun can autoparry lows and counter throws. On + frames into GEN, none of its options can be stepped or bd.

You can fuzzy guard GEN 1_3_4 but not GEN 2.


1,2 on block into GEN:

GEN 1: Jab/ch4, any quick mid or sw
GEN 2: See above
GEN 3 See above or swl
GEN 4 See above or swr - despite it being a homing move!


Vs GEN:

If you see GEN off a blocked string you can push buttons. On hit, fuzzy guard the low/high options or take the mixup.



IZU. Manually entered with f1+2:

IZU 1,2: i13 hm jab string. -7 OC on block, +6 OC on hit. Crouch jab after IZU.
IZU 1,4: IZU jab into Leg Cutter series. Crouch jab after IZU.
IZU 2~5: i23 mid taggable launcher. -17 on block. Crouch jab after IZU.
IZU 1+2: i21 b! mid out of IZU. -6 OC on block. Crouch jab after IZU.
IZU 3~5: i16 launcher, crushes high and low.
IZU 3+4: i14 cancans, crushes low.
IZU 4,1: i27 Juns 'Hell Sweep'. The low is -37, the mid -14. Crouch jab after IZU.
IZU 1+4_2+3: Break both throws with 1+2 or crouch jab after IZU.


Vs IZU:

Crouch jab all of IZU's options until they start using IZU 3_3+4 to crush it. At that point fuzzy guard the cancans or guess the b3 and block punish with b1+2. Learn to ID all the strings into IZU so you can duck and launch. The throw breaks are always 1+2. The goal is to limit Jun to IZU 3_3+4. Where a well planned LP or b1+2 will end her.



General Strats vs Jun:

As with Asuka swr generally avoids most of Jun's options. Her tracking is pretty decent with f4 being a +3 on block high that leads to a full combo but she, just like her niece is not very good at breaking down turtles lacking a quick + on hit low with decent risk/reward.

vs Kazama scrubs, Changs are very adept at dealing with 'counter spam' with elbow to close the gap and df3 to knee them out of ducking so that a crush move/more counters can't be thrown out to get under a throw/low attempt. Being able to launch punish Kazama b3 with Changs b1+2 eliminates the threat of that move. Jun's i12 punishment is pretty poor so risking hopkicks and shotgun,2 can be on the table. ss3+4 is a bad idea thanks to f2~5.

Being that 1,3 is now -1 on hit you can retaliate with jabs/ch4 - making it like T5/DR all over again in this matchup. Or just play it safe and turtle some more.


*Chickening:

To 'chicken' a counter buffer either f1+3 into a left limb attack with 1 or 3, or f2+4 into a right limb attack with 2 or 4, eg. d,df1~f1+3 (mash) to buffer a chicken into shotgun or, uf4~f2+4 (mash) to buffer a chicken into the first hit of Chang's hopkick. On double button press moves like b1+2_d1+2 its f1+3 for simultaneous hits otherwise you have to look at the animation of the move to see if the left or right limb leads eg. Asuka's 1+2 requires a f2+4 chicken as her right hand leads first.



TL; DR:

As you may have noticed, Jun's block frames are pretty terrible. Study her moves or even go through your punishment flow chart and she'll be dead (again) in no time.

Last edited by IRON LOBSTER on Aug 26th, 2013 at 14:01

Signature A split second is only 30 frames.
IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3031
From: Canada
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Vs Asuka.

Frame Data:

http://rbnorway.org/ttt2-asuka-frames/


Key Moves/Punishment:


See the Jun guide above for shared moves eg. 1,3_b3_f2_1,1_d4_f1d4_ws3_leg cutter series_1+4_FC df2_cancans_counters_chickening etc.


1,2,4: i10. -14 on block no pushback. If you duck the 1, 2,4 is NC.

2,3: i12, -19 on block. 2,1 doesn't jail, is hh and +8 on hit.

b1+4: i12 NC, +5 NH hl that is safe on block at -8. LP the second hit so you won't have to put up with b1+4,4_3.

uf4: i20 hopkick. -13 on block.

1+2: i16 safe mid launcher. -9 on block so retaliate with either df3 or MA to stuff counter setups.

db2~5: i24, -13 on block TC launching mid. Very evasive, taggable.

db3: i21 low. Doesn't TC +4 OC on hit. -12 on block. Tracks right.

ss2: Very evasive i13 mid, built in ss either side to add to its evasion. -12 on block punish with 2~b2+3.

d1+2: i20, -18 on block KND low with no range despite her Jack hands.

ff2,1_1+2: ff2 is -13 on block. The followups are HC'able with 1+2 being -13 mid and 1 being a safe high at -5 on block. ID the mid and punish, ID the high and df3_ff1_throw_space.

db4,3~5_db4,4,3~5_db4,4,4,3~5: i22 Leg Cutter series. The 3 is a taggable CH launcher of CH db4,3. db(4),4,3 is NC. Scrubs abuse this string. Duck and launch.

b4,2: i15, NNc. b4 on it's own is a really good meaty CH fish. b4 is -8 on block +8 NH. b4,2 is -6 blocked, +5 OC.

3~4_3~4_db: i24 TC low that can be cancelled into FC. ws4 punish the cancel and ws1~5 the low.

d2: i18 meaty stance killing mid. -4 OC on block, +8 OC on hit, combo on CH. ws3 and buffer a chicken with ws3~f1+3 (mash) to track any sw launch_counter setups on block.

db1,2: i14, TC ml string, NCc, -13 on block, +3 OC NH, KND on CH.. LP the second hit. db1 is -9 on block, +4 on hit.

f4: i19, +3 on block homing high. Combo on hit.

ff3: i20 TC homing mid. -9 on block gives w! Junknown share this move too.

ws1,4: i15 mh NC string, -12 on block. Duck and launch or punish.

ws2,1: i14 mh NC string into Asuka's 10 hit combo. Duck and launch/ws4.


Strats vs Asuka:

As with all Kazamas in this game, headbutts, knees and elbows destroy counter and crush move spamming scrubs. Elbow to enter, df3 to lockdown so you can start abusing throws (see vs Jun for the overview).

Asuka is however much safer on everything so beware of counter setups (see Jun for chickening counters) after safe moves on block like 1+2_3+4_b4,2. Asuka can hold her counter window for a lot longer than other counter characters which can make chickening easier.

ss2 gets around elbow and shotgun pretty reliably too so bait and block punish with 2~b,2+3 along with b1+2 for b3. Like Jun, Asuka has a hard time breaking down turtles although db3 is a notable low being i21 +4 OC on NH. It it suseptible to ch4 if not spaced correctly however.

Another problem unique to Asuka's offence is that because her character model has big hands, her throws are easier to break - no troll I promise!

Like Jun, from FC she can CH combo from FC df2 or use her 'Falling Rain' launcher throw to deal with pressure from high attacks so don't abuse 4's too much. Asuka can also get very good punishment on Chang's hopkick and shotgun,2 with 2,3 at -12 for 39 damage and a potential w!

Her block, whiff and pushback punishment from -12 upwards is very effective this time round with 2,3 never failing on getup 4's and f2 punishing Chang's ss3+4 so whiffing or taking a pushback risk will hurt.

Asuka can technically punish Chang's 4 with her 2,3_2,1 string.

Again, like Jun, Asuka's w! pressure is pretty average, no w! splatting throws (unless it's to their back with FR) and no splatting lows although d1+2 will give a guaranteed 3+4 if they don't tag crash.


TL; DR:

Don't ever whiff, swr, enter with elbows and wait for that crush move.

She has big hands...

Last edited by IRON LOBSTER on Feb 12th, 2013 at 12:55

Signature A split second is only 30 frames.
IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3031
From: Canada
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Vs Paul.

Frame Data:

http://rbnorway.org/paul-ttt2-frames/


Key moves/Punishment:

QCF2 'Deathfist': i15, -17 on block at all ranges with varying pushback. Punish with ff1,4 (100% reliable), d1+2_4~2>1_qcf2_ff3, in descending order of reliability. Michelle gets ff1+2 at all ranges too.

d1: i14 meaty mid poke. -9 on block, +3~+4 OC on hit.

d1,2: i14, -17 on block, no varying pushback, ff3 will always reach. It's also possible to sw the second hit in either direction or jab interrupt it.

d1,(hold)2: +20 on block GB, sw the Deathfist.

d1,4,2: d1,4 is death on block, d1,4,2 -14 on block. sw after the d1 then hold b to take the tracking low then block the mid for ff3 punishment.

d4:2:1+2 'Demolition Man': i15, d4 is -31 on block, d4:2 -18, d4:2:1+2 -17 with pushback.

ff2: i15-16, -18 on block.

ff2,1: mm -12 on block.

ff2:1: mh duck the high -4 on block, creates enough space for d1+2 to TC highs.

ff2,1~b: The cancel is -23 i14 df3 or i12 shotgun are your quickest options.

3,2: i15, mh, duck the second hit.

ws3,2: i13, mh, duck the second hit.

d1+2 'Barge'/'Shoulder': i12, -16 on block. Hopkick or df2,1~5.

f1+4: Paul's evade barge. -14 on block.

uf3,4: -13 on block hopkick.

ff3,4: -16 hopkick out of a dash/wr hard to ID so take your i12~i13 punishment.

ff4: -2~+4 on block meaty forward TJ roll, hard to step. On block swl most of his options.

ws2: -14 on block with pushback.

FC df2,1: Both mm hits -17 on block.

FC df2,2_df2,2~b_ff2,2_ff2,2~b: ID the i19 on block low and hopkick, ID the ~b cancel and hopkick.

qcf1+2: -12 on block low launcher - very ID-able.

qcf1: -7 on block high taggable launcher.

df2: i15 NH launcher +5 OC, -8 on block, very good range and TC during certain frames.

ss3: +3 on NH low, -13 on block.

df1~b SWY: df1 is i14, when cancelled into SWY it becomes +3 on block. In TTT2 Paul can input SWY options at any time during the SWY animation now.

qcb2: Safe mid w! -8 on block.

qcb3,2,1_3: lmh_lml, fuzzy parry the third low or ws launch the high.

qcb4: +3 on block high homing move, combo on CH.

qcb1+2: -14 on block taggable mid launcher.

qcb1: OC on -2 block mid.

b3: i14, -9 on block high launcher.


Strats vs Paul:

In TTT2 the 135% scaling buff to single attacks really makes Deathfist a threat in this game vs characters who cannot punish it well and Chang's losing the full combo off ff3 affects this thanks to the increased pushback. Julia has the slight edge as ff3,f2+3 gives her a solid 50/50 on the ground but if ff3 fails then Paul can launch it with b3 for a full combo. In short, ff1,4_d1+2 is the go-to Deathfist punisher in this game if you're having a bad ff3 day. It is worth noting that if you have the execution, iwr1 will block punish Deathfist - too hard for me but a free beard to anyone who masters this.

That said, Paul is still incredibly unsafe and still has very bad recovery on his safe moves so you can df3 afterwards to stuff any counter/isw launch setups. Don't be fooled by his ff2,1~b cancels at the w! either. It's -23 so you can do what you want if you're quick or just df3 just to play it safe. ff2:1 still recovers badly so duck and ws1~5 and the same goes for 3,2 and his new ws3,2. If you do block ff2:1 at the w! the push back will be enough for Paul to d1+2 highs so if you are going to push a button - make sure it's a mid one. Alternately, keep it simple and crouch jab everything after ff2 on block as it will beat ff2:1_ff2,1_ff2,2_ff2,1~b. You have to crouch jab as soon as you block the ff2 to interrupt ff2,1 or you will get hit.

His tracking still sucks although it is reccomended to swr just to get around df2. As in T6, Paul's df2 still crushes highs at certain points - I've had it go under iwr1. Note that good Paul players compensate for this by being a lot more patient and using the ss_sw to realign themselves with their opp to deal with his tracking issues. Changs have excellent whiff punishment options vs whiffed Paul anything with hopkick_df2,1~5 and ff3. Just remember that Paul does have some of the best/most reliable block and whiff punishment in the game. Both Changs and Paul are very high risk/high reward.

Also Paul needs to be up in your face to break down turtles with Demoman. Until then, you have no real need to duck. Thanks to ch4 and shotgun, Paul has a hard time getting in on Changs, he basically has to get close to you and try to step those moves and df2 and that's when you can start tracking him with b4_chb3. At the w! you will be in trouble if he has the advantage as on top of his qcb2_Demoman mixup, he can w! you off his ff1+2 throw for a full combo or his df1+3:qcf2 throw, if he screws up the JF from this throw you can block the Deathfist and launch punish. If the w! is to Paul's right, he gets extra damage off his 2+4~b throw. b1+4 gives w! to his back for extra damage too.

Perhaps the biggest boon to Paul's game in TTT2 is the addition of qcb4 and that he can now input his SWY options off df1~b at any time now. Before in T6 if you saw the SWY off df1~b you could sw everything or even jab or ch4 him out of some of those moves on block. Now, thanks to SWY4, he can track sw with a high +3 on block homing move and net a CH combo off it. Also, because he can control the SWY inputs, he can make a jab or 4 whiff. eg. Blocked df1~b~immediate SWY4 can be jabbed/ch4'd. Delay SWY 1_2_4 can whiff punish the jab_4. Elbow and shotgun are your quickest options but you have to be fast and they won't beat everything. Or Paul can 'Hayashida Step' and whiff punish with Deathfist - df1~b SWY is more in his favour now.

Because of SWY 4 and the cancel buff, Paul can track you at the w! and get a w! mixup with SWY 4 for steppers and SWY 2 for people ducking SWY 4. That said Paul has no low w! option out of SWY still on NH so just wait. Like everything vs Paul a good read will end him and SWY 4 recovers badly on whiff while SWY 2 is -8 on block which kills his momentum. Aside from that, in TTT2, Paul is better at the w!

Breaking down Paul with Changs isn't too much of a problem, he has no fast magic 4, no mid that beats shotgun or elbow on frames and a pretty average ss and bd so you can get in pretty easily. The rest is up to how good the Paul player is at spacing, throw breaking and block punishing. Note that he gets excellent block punishment on hopkick and shotgun,2 with d1+2 so those are bad risks to take. Unlike Kazamas he can't punish ss3+4 particuarly well, needing to be on point with qcf2_ff2:1. Note that Paul does have a chickenable counter so buffer f1+3 into your shotguns should your opp start using it (see Jun for chickening).

Up close, ch shotgun and magic 4 will ruin a paul pushing buttons not to mention df3 tracking him if he steps right and b4 to track him both ways. You want to use elbow_shotgun_isw_4~2,1 to stop Paul from bd and force him to step so you can track him with df3_b4_elbow and isw. The latter two can track with their 'ff'_'f~ff' inputs.

On the ground Paul doesn't have anything particularly fast and scary to hit you with so don't be in a rush to get up straight away as the last thing you want is to tech into a Deathfist/Demoman mixup.


TL; DR:

Stay on top of him, keep walking him, you have better ch options and don't take any risks, block punish Deathfist to stop him from using it and he loses all momentum off most of his safe moves on block. Netsu aside, you're probably better off taking Demoman at the w! over a full combo from qcf2_qcb2_d1+2 w! etc.

Last edited by IRON LOBSTER on Feb 12th, 2013 at 12:56

Signature A split second is only 30 frames.
Insane Axes
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Insane Axes
Berserker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 334
From: United States
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
what does TC mean?
Mingriah
Make TZ Great Again
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Tech crouch

Or

Topic creator
Signature Please; call me FreeChaolan

Apparently Eliza's not in TTT2 because drunk Japanese can go super saiyan.

that feel when...laggy TV
Insane Axes
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
thank you
PrimalCarnage
Shihan
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Good thread, Iron Lobster. If anyone can, some vs advice for the Jacks and Mishima's would be appreciated.
Signature Come on, Changs for T7!
Insane Axes
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
yeh, I need strats vs zafina, leo, hwo/baek, bobs, capos, laws, ganryu, bears, kuni, lars, lei
DYNA$TY
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
What problems were you having fighting against Lei?
Signature Team Next Generation
Insane Axes
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DYNA$TY
What problems were you having fighting against Lei?


Just don't have a general sense of how to fight him and I've been this way since 5.0

don't know how to handle him when he's rushing me down and if he's doing all that "lay on the ground" stuff...I don't know what to do then either. I try to be cautious vs Lei but I get impatient and lose.
DYNA$TY
Deity
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 695
From: USA New Jersey
PSN: Akushitsu
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
vs Lei:

Stance Legend : PHX-Phoenix, DRU-Drunken, CRN-Crane, DRG-Dragon, SNK-Snake, TGR-Tiger, PNT-Panther, CS-Coiled Snake, BT-Backturned, PLD-Play Dead(fuht), KND-Knockdown(fuft), SLD-Slide(fdht), FCD-Facedown (fdft)

Key Moves/Punishment:

2,1_2,1,3+4: i10 hm_hmm -8 on block, +3 on hit, 3+4 is delayable and -11

d/b+1: TC low 0 on block, +8 on hit, and leaves Lei in Coiled Snake. You can option select the transition on hit or block and jump over Coiled Snake and punish him w/ bt d+4_bt d+2+3

ss 2,2_ss 2~b: mh Duck the 2nd hit of ss 2,2. ss 2~b leaves Lei in bt +1 OC on block, -1 OC on hit.

ss 4: mid Taggable launcher -8 on block

b+2_b+2~f DRG: i17 TC mid b+2 is -7 on block +4 on hit, b+2~f DRG is -9 on block +2 on hit

d/b+4_d/b+4~f DRU, ~u SNK_d/b+4,4: TC low -24 on block

fc,d/f+2,1,4: i18 llm low parry the 2nd hit, fc,d/f+2 is -12 on block -1 on hit, used to be -17 on block. The last part of the string is 0 on block and leaves him in PHX.

b+1+2: TC Mid -4 on block +5 on hit, ass stun on ch so tech or else you'll be missing a lot of red health

u/b+4:TJ i15 mid, -18 w/ pushback

d/f+3: Homing -10 mid w/ pushback

fn4,1_fn4,1,2,2~f DRG_fn4,1,2,2,2~f PNT: i12 hm_hmmm_hmmml -1 on block, if they try to step after the string use b+4, if they finish the string then go into DRG they are -4 and Lei has no low crush in DRG stance so you can go for a high crush if you think they're going to do DRG 4,1 or shotgun. The low ender is -1 on hit -17 on block.

f+3+4: DRU transition as well as punch parry. After DRU parry, leaves you facing towards the screen and Lei to your side, nothing Lei does is guaranteed but his jabs will beat out anything. Make sure you hold back or else Lei can 2,1,3+4 your side.

f+3,1_f+3,1,2: 16 frame delayable string, 1st hit is -12 so 2~b,2+3, duck the 2nd hit, the 3rd hit is -12 so 2~b,2+3

bt 2: i20 homing mid -10 on block, knocks down on hit

f,f+3_f,f+3~b_f,f+3,4: TJ mid m_mh f,f+3 is -14, f,f+3~b is -8, and f,f+3,4 is -13. Duck and launch Lei if he finishes the string. f,f+3 will punish both f,f+3 and f,f+3~b.

bt d+1: TC i11 low -6 on block +5 on hit

Razor Rush fn1,u or d SNK (-8 on block -2 on hit)_fn1,2, u or d DRG (-12 on block +2 on hit)_fn1,2,1, u or d PNT (-11 on block however Lei crouching_fn1,2,1,2, u or d TGR_fn1,2,1,2,4, u or d CRN_fn1,2,1,2,3: i14 mmmmm_mmmml mid ender is -7 and steppable, low ender is -17. Each string can be delayed, if he goes into stance on block he is at least -12 except for SNK and TGR which are safe, hopkick him if he transitions to PNT on block.

d/f+1_d/f+1,1,1: i13 mid d/f+1 is -4 on block +7 on hit. d/f+1,1 is -9 on block now and no longer jails, used to be -10 and jail. The last part of the string is delayable and -10 on block.

d+4_d+4~d SNK_d+4,4: i12 l_lm d+4 is 0 on hit -12 on block, d+4~d SNK is -1 on hit-13 on block, d+4,4 is -15 w/ pushback so punish accordingly w/ qcf+2~5_f,f+3.

u/f+3: TJ mid leaves him in CRN, launches on ch, +11 in stance -9 on block if he cancels the stance on block

u/f+3+4: TJ mid Lei is -1 bt, ssr will avoid most options, he can bt d+1 or d/b ws 3+4 you for being aggressive

3~4,4,4_3~4,4,4~d PLD: Mid if Lei ends the string bt he is +3, if he lays down in PLD he is +4 but the same situation as d/b+1 where you can jump over him to avoid the mixup

ws3+4: -15 w/ pushback, punish accordingly w/ qcf+2~5_f,f+3

f+4,2: TC hm ch launcher 0 on block, if finishes the full string f+4,2,1,2,4_f+4,2,1,2,3 treat as you would Razor Rush.

d/f+1+2~f TGR: Lei is -3 but he can parry highs and mids or ssl SNK any linear ws moves, ws3 will catch lei if he tries to move, lows and elbows beat parry. He is +6 after a successful parry.

fn2,1,2,1: fn2,1 is 0 on block, 3rd hit is steppable

d+2_d+2,2: i18 m_mm d+2 is +4 OC on hit -3 OC on block, d+2,2 is ncc +6 on hit -10 on block and delayable, and ch (d+2),2 is knd on hit. If you don't think he'll commit to the 2nd hit, ws3 will catch him stepping, f,f+1 will catch step and backdash. Delayed d+2,2 is steppable to the left.

SNK
1,2,1: ill hmm +5 on hit -5 on block and leaves Lei in PNT, if Lei ops to do SNK 1,2 he stays in SNK w/ less advantage
4: i15 low -13 on block -2 on hit and leaves Lei in SNK
1+2: mid -10 on block knd on hit, used to stop people from hitting buttons on SNK
2,2,2_2~f DRG: i15 mml 2,2,2 is a hc nc that leaves Lei at 0 in PNT at 0. Lei can cancel either of the 1st two hits into DRG.

DRG
1_1~b: Grab can be cancelled w/ back to bait grab break which then gets crushed by DRG 2
2: TC Mid CH Launcher i17 +4 on block
3: TC Low i16 -16 on block and +1 on hit. Can transition to CRN but he is at disadvantage on hit.
4,1: i10 hm see fn4,1

TGR
~f: High/mid parry
1: i16 Mid +2 on block and hit, launches on ch
3: TJ Mid i17 -12 on block, knd on hit
4: TC Low i15 -29 on block

CRN
1: Mid +5 on block and leaves Lei BT, knocksdown on hit
3: i14 Mid -5 on block +6 on hit. First part of CRN 3,4,2,3 string, low parry the 4. Last part of string is -12.
4: i21 Low -19 on block

PHX
b+3: i14 safe mid knd on hit, juggle on ch
2: -10 OC on block, unlike f,f+2 PHX 2 launches on hit
4: low -14 on block +2 on hit
b+4,4,4: see 3~4,4,4

DRU
1+3: Grab, both parts are 1+2 break even though they appear to be 1 or 2.
2,2_2~b: See ss 2,2
3,2,4: i17 lmm 3 is -12, 3,2 is -1, and 3,2,4 is -21 with pushback. He can stay in DRU from 3 or 2 by holding forward however anything he does can be interrupted.
4: i18 Mid launcher -12 on block
b+1+2: TC/TJ Mid Just as evasive as b+1+2 and leaves Lei in SLD, juggle on hit

PNT
Panther autoblocks lows but Lei cannot block mids, as he is crouch status in PNT, unless he cancels PNT.
~f: AutoLow Parry
1_1~2:l_lh i11 low, panther 1 is -13, panther 1~2 is -24

2: i15 tag-able launcher, -10 on block, tracks well on both sides
3_3~b: i20 low -12 on block -1 on hit, Lei can make it safe by doing PNT 3~b PHX and then cancelling PHX stance.

Manual Transitions
SNK: 3+4_f+2+3
DRG: 3+4~1
PNT:3+4~2
TGR: 3+4~3
CRN: 3+4~4
PHX: b+1+4
DRU: f+3+4_1+3+4_2+3+4
PLD: d+2+3
KND: d+3+4
FCD: d+1+4
SLD: d+1+2

Step Transitions
From Attacks
ss2+3 SNK_ss1~f TGR_ss1~u or d DRG_ss3+4 BT_ss2~b BT_ss2,2~f DRU

From Stance
SNK
ssl
TGR
ssl
DRG
ssl
SNK
ssr
PNT
ssr
CRN
ssr
SNK

Lei cannot block in PNT, CRN, and PHX.

Strats vs Lei:

4~2/f,f+2/ f,f+3+4 stops ground shenanigan

Check Lei if he tries to move after a blocked Razor Rush, transitioning into stance after rush is unsafe except for SNK and TGR (TGR~f will parry any high or mids). If he transitions to SNK or TGR use d/f+3_f,f+1 to keep him honest.

Lei's mids in DRG (right) and TGR (left) are steppable to one side, he will have to use a risky low, TGR 4_DRG 3, to catch sidestep on his weakside.

Last edited by DYNA$TY on May 2nd, 2013 at 18:49

Signature Team Next Generation
IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3031
From: Canada
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Vs Unknown.

Frame Data:

http://rbnorway.org/unknown-ttt2-frames/


Key Moves/Punishment:

See the Jun guide above for everything else but here's Unknown's notable differences/new moves:


1+2: i80-300, This 'snapback' move on hit forces your partner to tag in. Because of it's slow startup and the fact that Unknown cannot control it's area of effect (AoE) you can simply dash in and launch her as she's completely vulnerable during those 80-300 frames. Or you can sw and run in or back dash and wait. If you're caught in it's AoE for too long you will get smakced by the big 'Asuka Hand' summon spell.

uf2,1_2: The extensions of this new string can also be accessed from b2,1,2,1_b2,1,2,2_b3,2,1_b3,2,2_ws3,2,1_ws3,2,2_uf
4,3~u on hit. The uf2 part of this new series is -28 on block and -18 if Unknown goes for either the uf2,1_2 extentions. This means than whenever you block the first uf2 either on it's own of after any of her other strings that lead into it, simply df2,1~5 before the second hit comes out. You can even sw the second hit but as you get a free launcher on block you have no need to. If Your opp is throwing out uf2,1_2 at a distance, again just sw, run in and launch. Off a blocked uf4,3, punish it as you normally would with your i12~13 punisher.

uf2,1 is -24 on block so should you block it Unknown is dead again. uf2,2 will drop the purple icicle of gooey death behind your character so launch Unknown on her -10000 whiff frames from uf2. Should you endup blocking it from far away, Unknown's either at +2 or -7 OC but too far away to pressure you at all with anything other than a very obvious looking 1+2 Kazama big hand of doom - sw, run in and launch.

ss2_ss2~b: On NH ss2~b will summon the Asuka hand to pimpslap Unknown's opp back towards her for oki. -12 on block, 2~b,2+3 (2~b,1+2 with Michelle) to punish.

b1+3_b2+4: Unknown's counter can only counter hm punches and kicks and gives a pushback animation similar to A.Ogre's counter but no where near as good. Cannot be chickened, gives low damage.


TL; DR:

Beyond that fighting Unknown is identical to Jun - don't whiff, average lows etc. They share the same hit/block frames and weakness to swr. Her combo options are a little better but her new moves are slow, linear, very unsafe and interruptable.

Last edited by IRON LOBSTER on Feb 12th, 2013 at 12:58

Signature A split second is only 30 frames.
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Against Paul's ff+2 'mix-up' you can option select and interrupt everything he does with a duck jab (on block of course) . It'll go under ff+2:1 and interrupt ff+2,1, ff+2,2 and their cancels respectively. Also 'punishes' ff+2.
With the duck jab I know it's not much damage, but you get the momentum and you're in FC right away, yadda yadda yadda.
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
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IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3031
From: Canada
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks man, updated. You do have to be spot on with the crouch jab to beat ff2,1 otherwise you will get hit.
Signature A split second is only 30 frames.
IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3031
From: Canada
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Vs Bob/Slim Bob.

Frame Data:

http://rbnorway.org/bob-ttt2-frames/

http://rbnorway.org/slim-bob-ttt2-frames/


Key Moves/Spam/Punishment:

1,1,2: i10, -12 on block, -1 on hit. If your opp is just throwing this move out, punish with 2~b,2+3. On hit he is at -1 so you can jab back or ch4 if you think they will follow up with a quick mid or another jab string. Note that uf1+2,1+2 will crush your jab_4.

1,2,1+2: -12 on block. The low ender to this string has now been replaced by an easy to punish mid.

1,3,3: hlm. The last two hits of this string are -16 on block. LP the second hit.

1,d4: hl, -12 on block, -1 on hit. Essentially with all the above strings, after blocking the first jab hold 'df' to fuzzy parry the low options.

4,3,3+4: Jab after blocking 4,3 to float Bob out of the 3+4.

1+2: 1+2 on its own is -13 on block OC. You can crouch jab him out of 1+2~f on block into his forward roll options. Hopkick launches everything except 1+2~f1 where it will trade and float 1+2~f3+4. Chase him after 1+2~b on block with either wr1_wr3_isw or shotgun. Note that Bob is safe after this roll so the most you get is a mixup. wr1 will beat 1+2~b, ws4, run in shotgun_wr3 will beat 1+2~b,TP.

1+2,1+2: -20 on block with pushback if you don't neutral guard so punish with ff3 or qcf2~5 if your back is not to the w! as neutral guarding won't block certain strings.

f2,3: Bob's i12 punisher, hm, -15 on block. Because the second hit is HC, expect it at the w! Block and hopkick.

f1+2: i15 'Belly Butt'. -15 on block. Slim Bob's f1+2 on block will cause him to fall back at -37 so you'll have to run in then hopkick or df2,1~5.

df1,2: i14, mm, delayable poke string NCc, -12 on block, +1 on NH, breakable stun on CH. df1 on it's own is -3 on block, +5 on NH. Tracks to his left.

df2: i15 CH launcher, -8 on block, +8 NH OC. Tracks to Bob's right. If you block this at tip range, another df2 will crush your jab (female jabs in Tekken don't have the greatest range or hitboxes) so either df3 or shotgun to keep him honest.

df3 series: Fuzzy parry after blocking df3 as all followups are either low or high. df3,1,1 is -10 on block. df3,4,4 is -13.

d1: Ah the mighty d1. No longer i14 and 0 on block. These days its i18, -9 on block but still hits grounded at +8 OC with Bob RC, tracking to his left. When you block d1 treat it like his df2 and go for your quickest mids to start with so he doesn't go for ws2,1 (TP).

d2,1,2,2: Delayable NC string. First two hits NC, last two hits NC. -21 on block with pushback, punish with b1+2 for a full combo.

d1+2,2,1: The 'RAARH!' String. i15 KND. The last hit is -16 on block and duckable so take your pick with df2,1~5_ws1~5.

d3+4: -20 on block 'Sammo Flip' with pushback. ff3_qcf2~5 will punish it. michelle gets an easy f3~1.

db3: i20, +2 on hit low that tracks to Bobs left. -13 on block.

db4,4,4_db4,4,3,3: Fuzzy guard the the third low and high hits of these strings. db4,4 is lm -12, db4,4,3,3 is lmhm at -12. Crouch jab will stop everything after the db4,4.

db1+2: Was -17 on block in T6, now -13 and taggable. i17 TC launcher. Beware.

db3+4>3+4: Probably Bob's best buff in TTT2. Having lost is block stun, db3+4 weighs in (pun intended) at i19, +6 on hit, -27 on block with a delayable second hit with db3+4,4 at +8 OC, KND on CH, -28 on block. Because of the delay, even if db3+4 is blocked Bob gets a mixup because you will be waiting for the second hit. Actually the thing is if you block db3+4, you can ws1~5_uf4,3 when you see the delay to block punish him. If you get hit - don't push buttons. The whole string tracks to his right.

b2,2,4,4: mhmh, You can duck the second hit and hopkick but realistically speaking, d1_ws4 is more practical. Most Bob's will just do b2,2_b2,2,4 to test the waters and waste your time. b2,2>4 is delayable and -9 on block.

b1+2,1,2: The last hit is -16 on block and high. If they stop doing it the third is -11 and mid so crouch jab just in case they do the last hit.

ub3: -21 on block 'Sammo Flip' with pushback. Punish with b1+2 for a full combo.

uf3: i20, -13 hopkick. Don't let the i20 fool you, Bob's hopkick has savage range and makes for one almighty Hail Mary. Despite being a left limb attack it tracks to his right. swr to get around it.

uf1+2,1+2: Still delayabe, no longer HC. i16, -17 on block with no pushback. uf1+2 on its own is TC/TJ and -11 on block So only jab punish once the delay window is over. Excellent damage, especially in rage when mixed up with his HS. More linear than before. Note that Slim Bob's uf1+2,1+2 causes him to fall back on block at -39. Run in and uf4,3_df2,1~5. Also it's important to know that uf1+2 is -3 on NH and CH now so Bob cannot enforce a mixup on hit after the delay window is over.

ff2: Horribly good move. i15, -8 on block, savage range meaty mid that gives w! and despite being and overhead right it decepitvely tracks to his left.

bb4: Safe, mid, evasive TJ launcher - stupid character.

bf1: Evasive CH KND w! attack used to be -17 on block, -11 now.

ws1,2_ws1,3: mh, duck the second hit and launch. ws1,3, mm, -14 on block.

ws2,1: Bob's TP (Twin Pistons). i14, -16 on block. Tracking well both ways and being TC makes this another widely used Hail Mary amongst Bob players the world over so don't get too eager with highs and throws. Can swl the second hit and launch.

ws2,2: -12 on block OC. Punish with ws4. FC df2 if his back is to the w! for a combo.

FC 2,1,1+2_2,4,1+2: Was -16 now -13 on block.

ss1+2: Like ff2, another horribly good move. -5 on block OC and w! Bob's ss1+2 shares similar properties to Asuka's ss2 where Bob will step out differently and punch with a different limb making it more evasive creating more space on block at tip range. Chang's homing ws3 is a good choice here to stop him from doing another one.

ff4,4: -14 on block mm homing move.

f4: High homing move, safe on block very good range, no w! splat, attack throw on CH.

uf3+4,4: Bob's 'Tatsu', lhh, duck the last hit and launch.


BAL (Roll Stance), input f3+4:

BAL 1: -8 on block mid.
BAL 2: -11 on block KND mid.
BAL 3: + on block high.
BAL 4: -26 on block sliding tackle which leads to a full combo.
BAL 3+4: -15~18, OC on block TJ mid. Not to be confused with his +8~15 on block wr3+4. Punish with hopkick.


cd series:

cd1: High CH launcher, -2 on block, watch out for iTP_df2 setups after to crush jabs.
cd2: Bob's 'SRK', super TC, -20 on block. Full screen Hail Mary, bait and punish.
cd3,2: mh, -12 on block. Fake blockstun and it jails so you have to 2~b,2+3_1+2 it with Changs.
cd4,1+2: MASSIVE range i18 HS. Tracks right, tracks to his left reasonably well. Both hits are death on block. Bob doesn't have the 50/50 afterwards like he did in T6 so on hit you're free to tech/stand but the oki is still in his favour at the w!. Slim's HS has less range.
cd1+2: -10 on block power mid. The delayable version is -7 on block.


Throws:

ff1+2: Bob's Launch throw is taggable and gives him a full combo. Slim's does not.
FC d,df,d,df1+2: Bob and Slim can score a w! combo off this throw.


Strats vs Bob/Slim Bob:

As basic/retardedly simple as this character is to use, fighting him does require a fair bit of knowledge. The main differences between Bob and Slim Bob, are that Slim can't get a combo off his ff1+2 throw, his HS has less range (so only a little less lethal then) and anything involving Slim's belly, eg. uf1+2,1+2 has incredibly bad recovery on block but you must run in and launch. On hit Slim's belly won't give him a good w! combo or the ability to enforce a mixup after a KND.

Bob has a fantastic pressure game. His jab has huge range being able to punch you in the face at the start of the round stuffing any ch4 attempts. It's meaty hitbox makes it a little harder to step should he jab, then jab again or jab~ff~jab despite it having no tracking. Because of its range, Bob's jab is a great keep out tool too.

Although considerably weaker than before, d1 does have a massive hitbox, therefore still able to 'check' moves at a certain range much like Bruce's 'BLACK 2'. When it comes to breaking down turtles Bob has db3_db3+4,4_HS and a launching throw not to mention a ton of delay, HC strings with a variety of mid, low variations to chip away at his opponents bar or intimidate them into pushing buttons for CH damage if they are unfamiliar with them. And because his ability to control spacing with so many solid ranged mids and unseeable lows, Bob can end the round like no one else.

It's also hard to pick a weak side vs Bob. d1_df1_db3_cd1_ssl 1+2 and ff2 all track to his left. df2_db3+4,4_hopkick and ssr 1+2 cover his right. TP and HS will cover both sides pretty reliably too. Generally, Bob's more damaging options track right with his tracking pokes covering his left so depending on your opponents playstyle, swl vs a poking Bob, swr vs a 50/50 Bob.

d1 being nerfed in this game is something you must take advantage of. As soon as it's blocked, Bob is at -9 so he's lost all momentum so df3 or shotgun to stuff his FC game so next time you can start throwing as Bob users will go for that FC TP setup to crush jabs/throws. His df1 is i14 too which means that Changs win the close range battle with CH4_elbow_d3 and shotgun but because he has so many delayable strings in close range you do have to wait to avoid being CH should he have the advantage/mash out a string.

He has lost the HC on uf1+2,1+2 but it is still delayable so attempting to punish the uf1+2 on block prematurely can still get you killed especially with your back to the w! It also works as an excellent ranged whiff punisher so don't mess up 4~2>1.

His 50/50 game in TTT2 has been buffed. db3+4,4 losing its blockstun and db1+2 being -13 now. Thanks to this, making mistakes against 'Rage Bob' along with uf1+2,1+2 will end you. It is also worth noting that while Bob can't launch you from standing until -20, the 135% scaling buff means that risking bow & arrow kicks or a sloppy 4~2>1 with Changs means you will eat 50+ dmg from uf1+2,1+2 not taking rage into account so his -16 punishment is solid not to mention 1,1,2 for -10 and f2,3 giving w! for -12. At -15 Bob can also punish with d1+2,2,1.

Offensively getting into Bob requires you to use elbow and shotgun purely to stop iTP and SRK's going under Chang's high pressure with wr1 and isw. The former can and will go under a lot of mids in this game. Defensively, Bob is such an effective 'Hail Mary' character as iTP~5 and SRK will deal with high and certain mid pressure respectively and his hopkick has massive range so bait these and punish when closing the gap. That moment when you think it's time to MA, jab or isw? No, either do another mid from a frame trap or bait that iTP/SRK. Punishment wise, Bob has all the damaging options to deal with Chang's riskier tools. In general vs most of the cast, Bob's punishment covers all bases with the only exception being no standing launch punishment until -20.


Easy df1 OC, 2~b,2+3_1+2:

In open play on these characters df1 OC, 2~b,2+3_1+2 is guaranteed for when you're having a bad df1 OC, ff3 day and it's 100% reliable.

Bobs
Kuni
Lars
Bears
Jacks
Ogres
Capos (including Christie)
Kings
Marduk
Ganryu
Miguel
Jinpachi
Raven
Alisa


TL; DR:

'Bobs' or 'Slobs' have all the tools to close the gap and control his opponents movement, his 50/50 game can be enforced from range 3-0 and he has no particularly weak side at close range with very good high and low crush tools and excellent +frames on hit. Unlike Lars his lows make you want/have to duck even when he's not in rage. His best throw options at the w! both require a 1+2 break. In this matchup, Changs have the edge in close range and in closing the gap with elbow and shotgun, plus very strong block and whiff punishment options against Bob's unsafe tools. Where as you have to think about spacing 4~2>1 correctly, he can mash out db3+4,4_HS at the same range and keep you honest with ff2_ss1+2 while you attempt to space. Bob players are more effective in this range with less to think about as his tools cover more ground with less/no execution. Learn his strings, punish everything correctly because he is quite unsafe and get in up in his grill and steal his lunch money before he does the same to you - pun intended.

Last edited by IRON LOBSTER on Feb 12th, 2013 at 14:17

Signature A split second is only 30 frames.
Insane Axes
Berserker
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 334
From: United States
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
I knew my hatred for bob was warranted
IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3031
From: Canada
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Vs Lars.

Frame Data:

http://rbnorway.org/lars-ttt2-frames/


Key Moves/Punishment:

1,1,1: -12 on block.

1,4: hl, + 1 on hit, -12 on block. Like 'Bobs' and Miguel's jab, low strings it's a little more reactable than Asukas so slighty easier to LP.

2,1,3: -12 on block hmm. 2,1,4 is safe and hmh.

1+2_1+2~b: 1+2 is -10 on block mm. The cancel is -9 so you can hit Lars out of any move he attempts from it.

f1,2,3_f1,2,3~d DE: f1,2,3 is -12 on block. If you see the DE transition, crouch jab.

f2,1~f SE: Whenever you see SE, hopkick whether Lars has +frames or not.

f2,4: i12 punisher hh, -12 on block. Duck and launch the second hit or 2~b,2+3_1+2.

f4,1,2,1: -14 on block mmmm string. f4,1,2 is -10 on block.

f1+2: i15 taggable mid launcher, tracks to Lars' right, -14 on block now.

f1+4: i13 mid barge, -18 on block.

df2: i15 mid ch fish. +2 on NH, -9 on block. Bad recovery, quick mid or throw.

df3,3: -20 on block 'backflip' attack. ff3 to punish. df3~d DE transitions into DE so crouch jab.

df1+2: i24, +3 on block OC mid.

d2: 0 on block OC mid.

d3,1: lh, duck on hit and launch punish the high. If the low pushes you back you can hopkick the high on whiff.

d1+2: i24, TC -20 on block low with good range. Gets a free ff3+4 afterwards. Linear.

db1,3_db1,3~d: lh, NC, -1 on NH, both hit are -12 on block. If Lars does the db1,3~d cancel, hopkick him out of everything.

db2,3: mm NC, -13 on block. db2, Hold 3 is +8 on block but you can CH4 him in between it.

db4: i21, TC low, -21 on block, +2 on NH, combo on CH. Tracks to Lars' right. If he lands this when you're on P1 side you can't swr to his weak side.

db1+2: -12 on block evade back, CH, TC launcher.

b1: i15 mid homing move, -9 on block. Bad recovery so do what you want just not a high. +3~4 on NH so so can bd after if your movement is on point.

b2,1: 'Gilbert Smash' is now -10 on block.

b3,4_b3~f SE: b3,4, mh, -12 on block. b3~f SE, hopkick him.

b1+2: mm homing move, -11 on block.

uf3: Ah the dreaded uf3...i16, TJ, TC, -21 on block. Doesn't high crush (TC) as well as it used to and tracks a little to his left but you can still easily sw it in both directions if Lars isn't at +frames. The trick to punishing this move is noting that it has no block stun so as soon as you block it/hear the block sound, either uf4,3_df2,1~5. Don't wait for Lars to touch the ground or uf3 will have recovered. Nerfed tracking makes this move way less threatening than it was before.

uf4: i25 TJ, safe taggable launcher. The trick with this move is that it jumps backwards a little during its opening animation making it a great 'Hail Mary' against opponents pressuring when at low +frames or with moves that don't cover much distance, wich also makes it very hard to float with jabs (Unless you're Bob). It is weak to sw and -9 on block, so as with df2_b1, use a quick mid like df3 or shotgun to stuff any uf3_iws1 attempts and then start throwing next time.

ff2: -13 on block ranged launcher for whiff punishment. Tracks to Lars' right.

ff4,3: i21 meaty, 45 damage string lm, with decent range. The first low hit is -31 on block the second being -16. Better than 4~2>1 and Demoman damage without the need for spacing. Weak to CH4 and shotgun and swr (tracks to Lars' right). -3 on NH so df3 to hit Lars out of any uf3_uf4 setups afterwards.

ff1+2: Big elbow, huge range, gives w! tracks right, combo on CH, -11 on block with pushback. Either go for a 4~2>1_isw or play it safe with elbow_shotgun or df3 to close the gap.

ff3+4: Low sliding tackle, -15 on block, 0 on NH OC. Tracks to Lars' right.

fb2,1: Lars' i14 'Jet Upper'. -16 on block, the first hit is -12 on block. Not delayable or HC. b! on NH.

ws1: i15, TC taggable launcher. -12 on block.

ws2,1_ws2~f SE_ws2~d DE: ws2,1 is -12 on block OC so either ws4_FC df2 at the w! to punish. Hopkick Lars out of SE. ws2~d into DE in this instance will be retreating so catch him with a quick elbow on block or bd_swr his options on hit.

ws3: i20, +7 on block high with a visible block stun.

FC df1+2: i18 ll string from FC. +1 on NH, -12 on block.

Opp down d3+4: Lars' ground stomp is -14 on block.

uf3+4 (Hold) air throw: As with Kunimitsu, hold~d to break the air grab.

uf3+4,1: The low is -15 on block. The uf3+4,4 mid is safe.


Stances:

DE (Dynamic Entry - The Ghetto wave dash stance - TC):

f3 manually enters DE. Can also be entered from f1,2,3~d_df3~d_ws2~d (DE will go backwards).


DE1~f SE: h transition into SE. Hopkick SE.
DE1,2: hh, safe on block, duck and launch.
DE1:2: See above for the JF.
DE2: Safe mid CH launcher. +7 on NH, -7 on block.
DE1+2: -3 on block OC mid b! move.
DE2+3: Break the throw with 1+2.

Crouch jab option selects all DE options and transitions into DE but you have to be fast.


SE (Silent Entry - The skid low stance - TC):

Can only be transitioned into from f1,2~f_f2,1~f_db2~f_b3~f_ff2~f (on hit only)_ws1~f (on hit only)_ws2~f_d3+4~f (opp grounded) DE1~f:


SE 1: -10 on block with pushback.
SE2: -17 on block low, puts opp in FDFT on NH for oki.
SE3: TJ mid, taggable launcher. -14 on block.
SE df1: Mid b! move. -16 on block.

Option select SE as soon as you see Lars skid across the ground after blocking any string into SE with a hopkick or df2,1~5 if you're feeling fast.


Strats vs Lars:

Although he's taken a buff in combo damage and has excellent launch~5 and TA! options covering all bases, Lars in TTT2 is much less of a threat than he used to be in part thanks to the tag system (I know! Ironic right?!). In T6 the main threat came from a rage Hail Mary involving uf3_uf4_ssf1+2 or ff4,3 but now if that happens, you can always tag out/tag crash, re-adjust and win.

Lars lacks a power low that can knd and make you want to duck unless he's in rage so until that happens you never really need to duck against him. db4 took a massive nerf on +frames being only +2 on NH so you're free to either sw or risk pushing a button. Also as you may have noticed from the above listed moves, he is very weak to swr and his safe moves have very bad recovery on block (as was the case in T6). Just bear in mind that Lars players like to throw out a safe mid eg. df2_uf4_b1 and then crush a jab attempt with uf3_uf4_iws1 but because of those -9 recovery frames you will be good to fire in a quick mid to stop any setups, or simply block, swr and force a whiff. Despite his weaker tracking in TTT2, b1 is still a very good homing move. Bait it, block it and start pressuring him again.

He's a little more unsafe in this game too so take advantage of Changs having strong i12 block punishment. That said use Julia's b2,1+2 for the 43 damage and wait. You'll be at 0 with Lars in crouch where uf3 will go under a Dejavu/MA attempt and a mashed out crouch jab will beat elbow, shotgun and df3. vs Lars it's always better to go for KND over a frame trap thanks to his crush game (rather like facing Kazamas). Especially with Changs where outside of landing df3 they don't get strong +frames, it is always worth hitting Lars and waiting just to see what the player is likely to do as his crush arsenal is great against over zealous MA and isw attempts and uf4 will go over shallow elbow and shotgun attempts...go deep...


Easy df1 OC, 2~b,2+3_1+2:

In open play on these characters df1 OC, 2~b,2+3_1+2 is guaranteed for when you're having a bad df1 OC, ff3 day and it's 100% reliable.

Bobs
Kuni
Lars
Bears
Jacks
Ogres
Capos (including Christie)
Kings
Marduk
Ganryu
Miguel
Jinpachi
Raven
Alisa


TL; DR:

Punish everything, swr, take the lows and pressure cautiously. It's still Lars so one mistake can still lead to taking a lot of damage. KND him at every possible opportunity over frame traps and make full use of his bad recovery to take the fight to him or walk to his weak side to bait whiffs as his crush game still makes him a dangerous character to tackle head on. His tracking is much weaker in this game.

Last edited by IRON LOBSTER on Feb 12th, 2013 at 14:18

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#19 “Quote” Edit Post
I've jab punished b+1.
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#20 “Quote” Edit Post
No you havent.
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