T6BR Lei Frame Data

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green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1281
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#41 “Quote” Edit Post
good contributions, keep it up!

do you take the frames from this google spreadsheet?
Signature ---> Lei general guide

---> and combos traps wallgame

"you cannot outsmart that which doesnt think"
Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#42 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by green)Lei
good contributions, keep it up!

do you take the frames from this google spreadsheet?

Well, I just returned to Tekken after a 6 year hiatus, so I'm currently in "study mode"!!
I have been making myself a Totally Complete list of frame data by comparing, testing, and compiling the info provided here...
Ina Tekken's Frame Data (Translated to English) - Just copy and paste the following link into your browser making sure there are no spaces (I see a space between livedoor. and jp%)---> translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.livedoor. jp%2Finatekken%2Fd%2F%25a5%25ec%25a5%25a4%25b8%25c
7%25cd%25ad%25b5%25bbTBR
with the information provided here...
Ina's Frame Data Translated @ Avoiding the Puddle and here... Google Spreadsheet of T6BR Lei's Frame Data - by Kakitajamie
and I use the move properties listed here...
Tekken Zaibatsu's Tekken 6 Move Lists
to help understand some of the side-notes and move properties listed on Ina's website.

Another someone in a previous post listed this as well...
Links to some data from an Arcadia issue

I've found a couple errors and contradictions between the lists. I assume they are most likely typos.
I will be adding some more "contributions" soon. I enjoy analyzing the data/numbers and creating theoretical situations to then go and test. I think I've come up with some cool stuff that I can share with you guys. It's probably stuff everyone already knows, but it's almost ALL new to me.

Last edited by Ei8hTy SiX on Oct 18th, 2011 at 09:05

Signature Rip - "So... does Dragunov have any stances?" Aris - "No. He's heterosexual."

Steve - "Don't be jealous." Lei - "Know how Sergei got that scar on his mouth? Haha!"

LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#43 “Quote” Edit Post
I have just discovered something by accident that is very interesting. I've been trying to do tests on this, but am finding it very difficult. I'm under the impression that noodalls is the man to go to when dealing with something this technical and complicated. Here is the frame data I have (via InaTekken and testing) and what I'm dealing with...

Lei's basic standing right jab:
2 = 12 damage, i10, +1 on block, +7 on hit
2,1 = 12,15 damage, natural combo, -8 on block, +3 on hit

It is well known that when f+2 is input, the right jab is slower but will do one more point of damage. The data listed is:
f+2 = 13 damage, i12, (it's assumed to be the same on block and hit as above, but not confirmed)
f+2,1 = 13,15 damage, natural combo, (also assumed to be the same as above, but not confirmed)

Lei's basic standing left jab:
1 = 8 damage, i10, +1 on block, +8 on hit
1,1 = 8,14 damage, natural combo, -8 on block, +3 on hit
1,2 = 8,14 damage, natural combo, -1 on block, +6 on hit

The left jab can also has different properties depending on the input. This is the move in question and the move that we will be studying. Here is the data I have, but I'm not sure if it is completely accurate (I'll explain later)...
f+1 is considered the same move and = 8 damage, i10, +1 on block, +8 on hit
f,f+1 is listed as the same move, but is i11 (because of the extra "f" input)

The data listed here -->Lei Wulong Basic Skills says that b+1 is also the same left jab...
b+1 = 8 damage, i10, +1 on block, +8 on hit
But we know for a fact that the move b+1 is NOT the same. This is easily proven by looking at the extension b+1,1. At first glance, it appears to be the same move as 1,1. They DO after all have the same animation. But...
b+1,1 = 8,7 damage, natural combo, (frame data unknown, but opponent has considerably better recovery time when looking at 'hit analysis' in practice mode. The opponent appears to have + frames leaving Lei negative on hit?!?!)
Not to mention, the data listed here -->Lei Wulong 10-string Skills contradicts the data given in the first link ("Lei Wulong Basic Skills"), and says that b+1 is NOT the same as Standing 1...
b+1 = 8 damage, i10, +1 on block, +7 on hit
The extension b+1,2 is without question a different move (with a completely different animation than 1,2), because it is the entry to his 10-string. Data for this move is irrelevant, but I will give it anyway...
b+1,2 = 8,9 damage, natural combo, -22 on block, -11 on hit, KNDc if b+1 whiffs, and leaves Lei BT.

So, we can say definitively that there is something different about b+1. Not only does it start the 10-string, but there seems to be some debate/confusion as to what the recovery time is after b+1 hits the opponent. We've been given two values... +8 and +7. Now, if you don't already have a headache, here comes the real brain teaser...

After much experimenting, I believe that BOTH of the above given values for b+1 on hit are inaccurate. I have been able to make b+1 combo with itself! Annotation is b+1,b+1,b+1.... !!!!!!
Let me say that this is not some "training mode glitch" because I've tested it in matches and got it to work. I can not get the normal 1 jab or the f+1 jab to repeat themselves in this way. Is it possible that b+1 is i9 and +9 on block?
I'm not sure if this can be done infinitely or not. I've made it combo up to four hits before my timing failed me and the combo stopped. Damage is 8,8,8,8... I'm also not sure if this is a natural combo, or if so, for how long. I've not even attempted this with the training dummy set to "stand to block" because it normally takes a few hits before I start to get the timing down.
When in practice mode, I've had the most success when putting the dummy in the corner although I've also done this in the open (Manji Valley, Hidden Retreat, etc.). Once I start the punches, I continue to hold BACK the entire time, which makes it considerably easier. I've also noticed that when Lei performs b+1, he slightly moves to his left. When you continually do b+1's Lei circles around the opponent ever so slow. For this reason, I thought that it might be necessary for Lei to be slightly off-axis for the combo to work, but I've made it happen straight on as well. Practicing this makes me feel like Lei is punching a speed bag repeatedly with only his left hand.

Could this be a Just-Frame infinite combo? If so, it's near impossible to do at all, nevermind consistently!

In the end, I've come to the conclusion that the b+1 jab is not only the start of Lei's 10-string... it's also a fucking mystery! A mystery that I'd like to solve. My problem is that I do not have a programmable game pad to reproduce this with consistency, nor do I have a capture device that can record at 60 fps.... which is why I'm asking for help. I understand that this would take a lot of time to do and test. You may be too busy to look into this. I also understand that this game is about to be replaced by TTT2, and for that reason, it's possible you may not have any interest to look into this at all. So, anyways, thanks for the time you took to read this and SUPER THANKS if you decide to investigate. Besides, I don't see why this won't all still apply in the new game.

Last edited by Ei8hTy SiX on Oct 4th, 2011 at 05:50

Signature Rip - "So... does Dragunov have any stances?" Aris - "No. He's heterosexual."

Steve - "Don't be jealous." Lei - "Know how Sergei got that scar on his mouth? Haha!"

LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
noodalls
Moderator
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2404
From: Australia
PSN: noodalls
#44 “Quote” Edit Post
http://www.mediafire.com/?qt3vgl0qmb1mn74

View with avidemux or sony vegas.

Visual analysis

b+1 i10
P1 dark until F26
P2 dark until F34
Input F1-11


1 i10
P1 dark until F26
P2 dark until F34

f+1 i10
P1 dark until F26
P2 dark until F34

b+1,1
i23
Input window F31
P2 dark until F31
P1 dark until F47

b+1, 1 input on F25 hits on F37 as predicted by buffer window.

Used PStick and couldn't find an input opportunity where b+1 would combo into b+1.
Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#45 “Quote” Edit Post
Sir, I thank you very much for taking the time to do that. You have given a great visual analysis of the frame data for:
1 = +8 on hit
f+1 = +8 on hit
b+1 = also +8 on hit
b+1,1 = -16 on hit

I am however disappointed that you were unable to get b+1 to combo with b+1.
I suppose that I'm going to have to record myself performing the b+1,b+1,b+1... combo.
I hope that my visual evidence will help others that might try, as well as prove it's possibility.

Originally posted by noodalls
b+1, 1 input on F25 hits on F37 as predicted by buffer window.

I assume that this was for the b+1,b+1 test (not for the b+1,1 combo) because you noted that the Input Window for the extension in the b+1,1 and b+1,2 combos is between frames 1-11 (with b+1 being input on frame 0).
The important thing is...
b+1, with b+1 input on F25 is what we are trying to test.
I would actually suggest trying the second b+1 on F24 (or even F23) in order for it (a i10 move) to connect while dummy is still blue (on F33 or F34). I'm unsure if your P-stick was holding B after the first b+1. If so, then the commands were input correctly. If not, it may be necessary to hold B while inputting the moves, but I just checked your video again and it appears that you did that (though I'm unsure).

Maybe, it is necessary to be slightly off-axis. As I said before, I've got this to work in the open and when aligned straight with the opponent. But Lei naturally moves side to side when left in neutral, and I may have actually been slightly off to the side. After watching and trying TONY-T's Lei Wulong MAX DAMAGE combos, I know that the hit-box's can act strangely when slightly off-axis (or after a side-step). I first discovered the b+1,b+1,b+1 combo while in practice mode with Lei against Lei. I suggest however, that you practice this against a character that does not have movement while left neutral. A stationary dummy will help limit the variables, if doing this combo off-axis is indeed necessary.

Maybe, if you were able to try this with the training dummy's back against a wall, you might find success. I stated that I have been successful performing this in the open, but I find it much easier with the dummy against a wall or in a corner. This may have to do with the push-back and spacing. I play on Xbox and when we (Xbox players) go into practice mode, we have to select a stage. I was unaware of that cool looking open stage in the PS3 training mode.


Again - thank you for investigating and attempting this!

I have a very low quality capture device and I haven't used it for a couple years. Allow me the time to get the stupid thing hooked back up and upload a video to youtube. I believe it may trigger your interest and convince you to retry.

EDIT: I just realized I can record this on my TV screen with my phone camera. So I apologize ahead of time for the poor video quality, but this will be easier and get the job done the fastest.
coming soon...

Last edited by Ei8hTy SiX on Oct 4th, 2011 at 00:02

Signature Rip - "So... does Dragunov have any stances?" Aris - "No. He's heterosexual."

Steve - "Don't be jealous." Lei - "Know how Sergei got that scar on his mouth? Haha!"

LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
noodalls
Moderator
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2404
From: Australia
PSN: noodalls
#46 “Quote” Edit Post
http://www.mediafire.com/?77f4b719abn5c7l

There ya go. Not entirely sure what's going on, but something is going on.

Ok, I had a detailed look. It seems when the preceeding b+1 is input on F28, it will alter the way that the hit stun occurs.

e.g. b+1 on F0, then b+1 on F28 will hit on F38. The subsequent b+1s if done with the same timing should combo. If you look at the colour of the characters there is no difference in terms of recovery, but if you look at the life bar it remains damaged for a longer period of time (and conversely it refreshes at the appropriate time when the hit does not occur on F38).

Will try to look into this more tonight. Seems like it is a JF, input on F28 only.

Last edited by noodalls on Oct 3rd, 2011 at 22:18

Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#47 “Quote” Edit Post
Nice! Thanks again for your time and efforts.

I just recorded this and put it on youtube. link to watch ---> CLICK HERE
Right before I started recording, I got it to combo 6 times for 48 damage and was doing it in the open!!
Once I got my phone propped up on some boxes and started to record, I didn't get more than 3.

Looking at your frame by frame pictures was very interesting. Here I thought that I was inputting the second b+1 at F23 or F24. In reality, it was on F28 ?? It seems then that the opponent has 3 active frames that they can either duck or block. This would mean that the combo is NOT natural and my dream of actually discovering an infinite JF combo has been shattered.

We have instead discovered a JF fake combo. (unless you can do this to a dummy set to 'stand to block')

I was trying it with the dummy set to crouch. I would first hit the dummy with a Razor Rush 1 because f,n,1 gives Lei +11 on hit when opponent is crouching. Then, I was trying to combo b+1,b+1.... The opponent kept ducking under my second b+1 attempt. I wasn't sure if my timing was off, or if it just wasn't going to work. It seems that those 3 active frame windows ruin it.

I know it's pointless, but it would be hella cool if you programmed the stick to do this infinitely, and then posted a video of Lei winning a round after doing this 23 times. 23 hit combo - 184 damage! Would leave a lot of people scratching their heads.

Last edited by Ei8hTy SiX on Oct 4th, 2011 at 06:27

Signature Rip - "So... does Dragunov have any stances?" Aris - "No. He's heterosexual."

Steve - "Don't be jealous." Lei - "Know how Sergei got that scar on his mouth? Haha!"

LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#48 “Quote” Edit Post
After a few hours of scanning the forums and reading other threads, I found some more useful Lei information given to us by noodalls. I am re-posting these here so that others will not have to spend the same amount of time that I did searching for different answers about some of Lei Wulong's frame data. Thank you noodalls for all the time you've spent assisting the community!! Thank you Brahma, for asking the questions noodalls was kind enough to answer here. I hope this re-posting does not break any forum rules...

Last edited by Ei8hTy SiX on Oct 22nd, 2011 at 00:13

Signature Rip - "So... does Dragunov have any stances?" Aris - "No. He's heterosexual."

Steve - "Don't be jealous." Lei - "Know how Sergei got that scar on his mouth? Haha!"

LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#49 “Quote” Edit Post
Frame Data for Standing from Default Grounded Positions (not Lei's special grounded stances)

Originally posted by noodalls
Standard disclaimer: M2TS files. View with avidemux and analyse frame by frame. Viewable on PS3 or with VLC. PStick used where necessary.

http://www.mediafire.com/?oheu8ko3m2zy86z

Retested this with PStick and Hauppauge. Pressing up is considered F0. Couldn't connect on F1 of SLD (if you watch the movie, you'll see that db+3 actually hits on F2, meaning that is has more than 1 active frame), otherwise all frames are vulnerable.
RP appears on the frame where P2 db+3 is input to help understand timing. May vary by 1F on occasion.

KND
F1-10 vulnerable
F11 can block

PLD
F1-10 vulnerable
F11-15 OB
F16 can block

SLD
F1 invulnerable
F2-5 vulnerable, remains SLD
F6-15 vulnerable, change to KND
F16 can block

FCD
F1-5 vulnerable, remain FCD
F6-18 OB
F19 can block

Last edited by Ei8hTy SiX on Oct 14th, 2011 at 19:02

Signature Rip - "So... does Dragunov have any stances?" Aris - "No. He's heterosexual."

Steve - "Don't be jealous." Lei - "Know how Sergei got that scar on his mouth? Haha!"

LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
noodalls
Moderator
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2404
From: Australia
PSN: noodalls
#50 “Quote” Edit Post
Generally good search strategy is "term you want to know about" & "noodalls"

Tried with the pstick today, inputs on F0, F28 and F56 and it didn't seem to work. Not sure why not.
Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#51 “Quote” Edit Post
I've been working out the frame data for Lei's attacks from the default grounded positions. Most of these attacks are universal, so I assume they will apply to many other characters. I hope you find this usefull when studying Okizeme. I will be updating constantly, filling in the blanks and '?' symbols as I go. Here is what I currently have.


KND / Knocked Down Position (aka Face Up, Feet Towards)

Low Kick (3): LOW(hits grounded from some angles), 12 damage, ? to impact, -12 on block, +? on hit, JGc

Mid Kick (4): mid, 21 damage, ? to impact, -12 on block, +? on hit, KNDc

Ankle Kick (d+3_4): low, 6 damage, ? to impact, ? on block, ? on hit, ? on CH

Cross Chop (b_f,1+2): mid, 18 damage, +? on block, KND

Spring Kick (b,3+4): mid, 24 damage, -? on block, KND

Tech-Forward (~F): mid, 15 damage, ? on block, ? on hit, ? on CH


PLD / Play Dead Position (aka Face Up, Feet Away)

Low Kick (3): LOW(hits grounded), 12 damage, ? to impact, -13 on block, +? on hit, JGc

Mid Kick (4): mid, 12 damage, -14 on block, KND


FCD / Face Down Position (aka Face Down, Feet Towards)

Low Kick (3): LOW(hits grounded), 8 damage,
Low Kick (3 clean hit): LOW(hits grounded), 12 damage,

Mid Kick (4): mid, 12 damage, -16 on block, +?, KNDc
Mid Kick (4 clean hit): mid, 18 damage, -16 on block, KND

SLD / Slide Position (aka Face Down, Feet Away)

I believe the data for these moves are the exact same as those in FCD position.
The only two differences I've found:
Low Kick 3 will NOT hit grounded opponents
Clean Hit modifier (for both 3 and 4) is very rare to get when in SLD, but much more common in FCD.

Rolling Forwards or Backwards from the Grounded Position

Low Kick (3): LOW(hits grounded), 12 damage, ...

Mid Kick (4): mid, 21 damage, ...

Some of this may not be 100% accurate. It's a work in progress. If you have found anything above to be inaccurate, or reason to believe something is wrong, please post the data that needs to be changed. The only other place I've seen this data posted is couple other spots, but don't believe the data to be true.

Last edited by Ei8hTy SiX on Oct 16th, 2011 at 06:11

Signature Rip - "So... does Dragunov have any stances?" Aris - "No. He's heterosexual."

Steve - "Don't be jealous." Lei - "Know how Sergei got that scar on his mouth? Haha!"

LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#52 “Quote” Edit Post
Frame Data for Lei's f+3+4 and Dru~f Punch Parries

This data gives the active parry windows and shows how soon the parries can be repeated.
Originally posted by noodalls
f+3+4 Frame 5-25
DRU F+3+4 Frame 5-25.
DRU~F+3+4 first input on F33. (Note, you can't seem to do f+3+4, it will give DRU 3+4, you actually have to press the f for at least a frame before 3+4. The F33 refers to the 3+4 part, with the F from F32.)

DRU~f = Parry window 1-20.
First accepted input from F32 after f+3+4 on F1.

So, f+3+4 and DRU F+3+4 both become active after 5 frames. You could do f+3+4 then f on F32, followed by F+3+4 on F52, which by my thinking would parry on F5-25, 33-52 and 57-77. Give or take a frame.
After parry DRU~f on F32, Lei can attack on F34, opponent on F68 (+34?).

Last edited by Ei8hTy SiX on Oct 10th, 2011 at 03:13

Signature Rip - "So... does Dragunov have any stances?" Aris - "No. He's heterosexual."

Steve - "Don't be jealous." Lei - "Know how Sergei got that scar on his mouth? Haha!"

LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#53 “Quote” Edit Post
Frame Data for Lei Side-Stepping vs Jabs

Originally posted by noodalls
Paul was set to either press LP (left punch) or RP (right punch) on F10 (frame 10), which will connect on F20. Lei was set to press d on a single specified frame. The two characters were walked together to prevent distance or allignment playing a role.
Where results were inconsistent, the first result to occur three times consecutively was used (e.g. if on a specified frame sometimes the punch was avoided, and sometimes it connected, whichever of hit or avoided occurred three times in a row was used.)

F3 ? Earliest frame Lei is able to avoid a LP by sidestepping towards it (corresponds to length of sidestep) = pressing d on 1P side
F12 ? Latest frame Lei is able to avoid a LP by sidestepping towards it (corresponds to speed of sidestep) = pressing d on 1P side

F3 ? Earliest frame Lei is able to avoid a LP by sidestepping away from it (corresponds to length of sidestep) = pressing d on 2P side
F13 ? Latest frame Lei is able to avoid a LP by sidestepping away from it (corresponds to speed of sidestep) = pressing d on 2P side

F2 ? Earliest frame Lei is able to avoid a RP by sidestepping away from it (corresponds to length of sidestep) = pressing d on 1P side
F13 ? Latest frame Lei is able to avoid a RP by sidestepping away from it (corresponds to speed of sidestep) = pressing d on 1P side

F4 - Earliest frame Lei is able to avoid a RP by sidestepping towards it (corresponds to length of sidestep) = pressing d on 2P side
F12 - Latest frame Lei is able to avoid a RP by sidestepping towards it (corresponds to speed of sidestep) = pressing d on 2P side

The important data that I get out this is that Lei can successfully side-step a 10-frame jab from his opponent if he is -2 or better by stepping to the same side as the jab. Lei can successfully side-step a jab from his opponent if he is -3 or better by stepping to the opposite side as the jab.
Lei can anticipate a left jab and successfully sidestep to either side up to +7 frames early. Lei can anticipate a right jab and successfully SSL up to +6 frames early, and can successfully SSR up to +8 frames early. Any sooner any Lei gets hit.

Lei's non-blocking options for when you feel like a jab (or similar quick attack) is coming next:
- if Lei is -2 or better, then you can safely side-step to avoid all linear moves (look out for homing moves)
- if Lei is -4 or better, then you can safely DRU parry to avoid all high and mid punches (look out for lows, kicks, elbows, knees, heads, etc.)
- if Lei is -9 or better, then you can safely duck to avoid all high attacks (look out for mids and lows)
- if Lei is -? or better, then you can high crush with ? to avoid highs (look out for mids and lows)

Last edited by Ei8hTy SiX on Oct 28th, 2011 at 08:41

Signature Rip - "So... does Dragunov have any stances?" Aris - "No. He's heterosexual."

Steve - "Don't be jealous." Lei - "Know how Sergei got that scar on his mouth? Haha!"

LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#54 “Quote” Edit Post
Frame Data for Blocking From BT Position

Originally posted by noodalls
Note this is work in progress. I need to go back through and achieve consistency in the reported inputs.

BT FAQ
Figures of 7F and others are often suggested in terms of how long it takes to turn around from BT. I decided to have a look at how long it takes using my standard methods.

Methods
Playstation 3 and Tekken 6
2P programmable stick for command entry
Hauppauge HD PVR for 60fps capture
AVIdemux for visual analysis
Lei and Lili vs Jack6

Basic tests
Lili BT with b+3+4
Lili holds B F0-6, blocks F7
Lili hold B F0-5, hits F6 turn to face
Lili hold B F0-3, hits F4 turn to face
Lili hold B F0-2, hits F3 remains BT
*Same result with Lei b+3+4

Intermediate tests
Lili db input for 1F
If input the frame before the high hit connects, it will be ducked.
If input the frame as the high hit connects, it will hit.

Advanced tests
Holding DB from BT
Holding DB for 5F will remain in BT
Holding DB for 6F will turn to face opponent

DB~B slides
BT DB for 1F then B for 6F causes hit
BT DB for 1F then B for 7F causes block

BT DB for 5F, B for 6F causes hit
BT DB for 6F, B for 6F causes block
BT DB for 7F then B for 6F causes block
BT DB for 8F then B causes whiff

Pressing f~N (f~N~B gives same results)
Press f on F0. Can be hit up to F5. Can block from F6.

Holding DB versus lows
DB F0-10, connects F11 remains OB
DB F0-F11 connects F12 turns to face
DB F0-19, connects F20 hits turns to face
DB F0-F20, connects F21, blocked

DB to turn around
Hold DB for 6F (F0-F5). Can block on F12.
Hold DB for 6F (F0-F5). Will be hit on F11.

b to turn around then low block
BT b on F0, db on F14 will get hit by low on F15
BT B on F0, db on F15 blocked low on F16


So by pressing BT~f, Lili is able to turn and block one frame faster. This BT blocking trick is unavailable to Lei because BT~f results in Lei walking forward.

Lei (and Lili) needs 7 frames to block from BT by holding ~B.
Lili needs only 6 frames to block from BT by inputting ~f to turn and 'neutral block'.
Lei (and Lili) needs 21 frames to block low moves from BT by holding ~D/B.
Lei (and Lili) needs only 16 frames to block low moves from BT by inputting ~b~D/B.

-3 BT is COMPLETELY safe from all punishment by simply holding ~B.
-4 BT is safe from WS i11 punishers by simply holding ~B.
-4 BT is only safe from standing i10 (and Lee and Lei's WS i10) punishers by inputing ~f,N or ~f,B. (This blocking trick is NOT possible for Lei)
-5 BT can be safe from all WS i11 punishers with ~f,N_B. (This blocking trick is NOT possible for Lei) Check and see if FC jabs will be in range to punish.
-5 BT is NOT safe from standing i10 punishers OR Lee and Lei's WS i10 punishers.
-6 BT is NEVER safe.

Basically, subtract 6 from your BT frame data to get the equivalent of blocking while facing forward...
e.g. 1+2,1 leaves Lei -5 in BT
-5 minus 6 equals -11
Lei can not block his opponent's i11 (or faster) moves.
Lei can however still duck under highs or jump over lows.

What I'm wondering is...
How many frames would it take Lili to successfully block a low by inputting BT ~f,D/B ?
and
Versus throw attempts... How many frames after holding BT~B will a back-throw occur? Is there a frame where a side-throw occurs? What frame does the front-throw occur? After how many frames of holding BT~B to turn around does it take to successfully duck under a throw/high attack?

Last edited by Ei8hTy SiX on Nov 1st, 2011 at 05:23

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LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
RoadBlaster
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1231
From: Sweden
PSN: joe_harley
#55 “Quote” Edit Post
hie!


does anybody know what the the frame situation is when razor rush punches are blocked but you dont actually transfer into a stance but just stop and block

after each punch i was thinking

like if the 3rd is blocked and i dont wanna risk animal transition, will i have the option break the rush and block without punishment?
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Ei8hTy SiX
Drunken Master
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 157
From: USA Iowa
XBL: Ei8hTy SiX
#56 “Quote” Edit Post
FRAMES ON BLOCK

f,n,1,2 is -12
f,n,1,2,1 is -12
f,n,1,2,1,2 is -14
f,n,1,2,1,2,3 is -17 (WS punisher)

f,n,1 is -2
f,n,1,2,1,2,4 is -7
Signature Rip - "So... does Dragunov have any stances?" Aris - "No. He's heterosexual."

Steve - "Don't be jealous." Lei - "Know how Sergei got that scar on his mouth? Haha!"

LUYG Ep.7 24:40-25:12
RoadBlaster
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1231
From: Sweden
PSN: joe_harley
#57 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Ei8hTy SiX
FRAMES ON BLOCK

f,n,1,2 is -12
f,n,1,2,1 is -12
f,n,1,2,1,2 is -14
f,n,1,2,1,2,3 is -17 (WS punisher)

f,n,1 is -2
f,n,1,2,1,2,4 is -7


if that is then how come its possible to enter a stance, break the stance into a safe block??. they should be able to punish all stances into break except maybe into snack after first rush on block
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Ultimat
Iron Fist God
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1275
From: USA Kentucky
PSN: FireKungFuHero
#58 “Quote” Edit Post
I really want to know what are the frames on hit and block for FC d/f+2 and FC d/f+2,1? It would really help me if I found out some way to know that!

Those hits would certainly be useful for WS/crouch recover/ frame followup setups!!!
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green)Lei
do it like old water
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1281
From: Germany
PSN: GreenLei
#59 “Quote” Edit Post
according to frame data, both are launch punishable on block. on hit it should be around 0
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