T6 BR Wang!!!

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sithlord
THE EMPEROR
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8640
From: USA Nevada
#241 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Lacuna_Loki
Here we go !

I guess some corrections are necessary, I'll update my tables as soon as I'll detect a mistake.

I'll also work on throw frames.



This desrves it's own topic.


Feel free and do the honors.
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Pzikoo
Sage
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 453
From: Sweden
PSN: MBOLIBOMBO
#242 “Quote” Edit Post
Too many errors in this frame data. Have you actually looked stuff up yourself or just copied from Ina Tekken?

WS+2 string is all wrong for example. You have forgot to name ws+1+2. FC d/f+4,3 is -17 on block. Like I said, too many errors in this frame data.

I actually did his frame data yesterday with a friend and it's 98% complete because I forgot simple commands that doesn't exist in the movelist like d+1, FC and so on. I will post the correct frame data in the near future together with proper juggles (because the ones posted are often crap). I will also give insight to his sabakis/parries. Which frames they are active. Guaranteed stuff after certain knock downs.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but I must say "STOP!" before misleading stuff turns into "truth".

/ JFK
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ryokim
6th Dan
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78
#243 “Quote” Edit Post
hello there i'm super noob..
I would ask..
is doing the d+1+2 combo after fd.fd+2+4 guaranteed
if it is why i don't see wang players abuse it like king players abuse his giant swing althogh wang can cause more damage ...??
Draakur
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1423
From: Australia
#244 “Quote” Edit Post
d/f,d/f+2+4 is called Waning Moon, so we refer to it using the acronym WM around here

The d+1+2 followup is guaranteed on the vast majority of characters, yes. It's easily in the top 5 tools Wang has available to him (a semi-recent Korean tier commentary mentioned they think it's the only thing that's really any good about him), and I abuse it as much as I can without pushing the risk factor through the roof, but it's not as spammable as King's GS because:

1) the break window is even larger than the window on a generic throw, while the window on GS is smaller than that of a generic; WM is a very easy throw to break on reaction for pretty much anyone of intermediate skill upwards

2) King has a mixup with iSW (f,f,f+2+4) that shares the same throw initiation animation (left hand forward). They can both be done from a dash, and it forces people to make a pure 50/50 guess as to the break input if applied correctly, and iSW is a great throw in its own right... Wang has no such throw mixup available to increase the likelihood of WM getting through
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sithlord
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: USA Nevada
#245 “Quote” Edit Post
Pzikoo: Check your PMs.
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Lacuna_Loki
Shihan
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 124
From: France
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#246 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Pzikoo
Too many errors in this frame data.


That's for sure. I warned everybody about those tables, but I'll update it.

That's why it's written 'Frames (work in progress)' ...

It seems obvious to me.

Whatever, I'm waitin' for your data. Guess it'll be helpful.
ryokim
6th Dan
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78
#247 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Draakur
d/f,d/f+2+4 is called Waning Moon, so we refer to it using the acronym WM around here

The d+1+2 followup is guaranteed on the vast majority of characters, yes. It's easily in the top 5 tools Wang has available to him (a semi-recent Korean tier commentary mentioned they think it's the only thing that's really any good about him), and I abuse it as much as I can without pushing the risk factor through the roof, but it's not as spammable as King's GS because:

1) the break window is even larger than the window on a generic throw, while the window on GS is smaller than that of a generic; WM is a very easy throw to break on reaction for pretty much anyone of intermediate skill upwards

2) King has a mixup with iSW (f,f,f+2+4) that shares the same throw initiation animation (left hand forward). They can both be done from a dash, and it forces people to make a pure 50/50 guess as to the break input if applied correctly, and iSW is a great throw in its own right... Wang has no such throw mixup available to increase the likelihood of WM getting through

Thanx for the info dude.. so i may have to learn some setups for the wm besisde doing it from sneak dash..
maybe you all know that but i notice that wangs normal throws (( do you name it generic ..??)) 1+3.2+4 put you in good position to okizime at least you can use ss+1+2
and the b+1+3 or b+2+4 reversals...
tl_crow
Shihan
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 105
From: United States
#248 “Quote” Edit Post
Does anyone know what frames of WS1+2 autoguard?

I was trying to think of some practical applications for this, but without a record function (Thanks again Namco!) it's kind of hard to test something like this. If it autoguard's at frame 1 then I could see some pretty dirty stuff resulting from it, like...

D+1(Block), WS 1+2
44 (block), WS1+2
D+2(block), WS1+2
etc... anything that leaves him in crouch safely. IF it works like that, it'd force people to freeze after any of those setups, and then the mixups begin. WS1+2 is -10 and pushes out on block, too. The pushout on hit is pretty perfect for a qcf+2 scare, too. It could also potential provide a decent mixup for F+1+4~db against people that try to hit him out of the UB.

This is all speculation of course, since I don't have online or anyone to test it with atm

Last edited by tl_crow on Nov 11th, 2009 at 05:56

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Jordyce
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4711
From: New Zealand
PSN: Jordyce
#249 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Draakur
It's easily in the top 5 tools Wang has available to him (a semi-recent Korean tier commentary mentioned they think it's the only thing that's really any good about him),


Lol that's bs and I'll back up why it is later. I've still yet to post up my massive long essay on why Wang is actually the greatest Tekken character since TTT Jin. bah, if only I wasn't stuck on a 360 controller.
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GosTanMan
Deity
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 651
From: Malaysia
#250 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Jordyce
Lol that's bs and I'll back up why it is later. I've still yet to post up my massive long essay on why Wang is actually the greatest Tekken character since TTT Jin. bah, if only I wasn't stuck on a 360 controller.


I would love to read that essay to improve my game play.
Draakur
Iron Fist God
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1423
From: Australia
#251 “Quote” Edit Post
Hah which part is bs?

Agreed on the latter of course, it's definitely not the only good thing about him.
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Barracuda
Sage
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 524
From: Philippines
#252 “Quote” Edit Post
To Wang players:

Is the launcher (I don't know it's notation, maybe d+1+2) guaranteed after his grab that leaves the opponent backturned? How can I escape it?
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kloude
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1252
From: Philippines
#253 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Barracuda
To Wang players:

Is the launcher (I don't know it's notation, maybe d+1+2) guaranteed after his grab that leaves the opponent backturned? How can I escape it?


its guaranteed! if dash are not delayed after WM..
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Barracuda
Sage
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 524
From: Philippines
#254 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by kloude
its guaranteed! if dash are not delayed after WM..


Well that sucks! Hahaha! Thanks BTW.
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FeAR-ThEgEEk
Shihan
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 122
From: Singapore
#255 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey, could someone please give me wang's punishers? I have no idea what to use besides 1,4 and b21 lol

thanks loads in advance
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kloude
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1252
From: Philippines
#256 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by FeAR-ThEgEEk
Hey, could someone please give me wang's punishers? I have no idea what to use besides 1,4 and b21 lol

thanks loads in advance


f+2 2

perfect punish for (exmple)

paul's d+1, 2

nina's b 1+4
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0lddM@n
Raijin
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 613
From: Philippines
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#257 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by FeAR-ThEgEEk
Hey, could someone please give me wang's punishers? I have no idea what to use besides 1,4 and b21 lol

thanks loads in advance


some punishers against Julia:

- punish with

FC, d/f+4,3 - d/f+2,1_u/f+3_u/f+4

d/f+2,1 - d/f+2,1

f,f+3 - 1,4_2,3

u/f+4,3 - 1,4_2,3_4

FC, d/f+2 - 1,4_2,3

4~2,1(this move is sick,i wish they'd nerf it) - u/f+4_u/f+3_d/f+2,1


i get to play the best Julia(naturelover) here in Phil,. most of the time.

btw, i noticed there's no punishment thread for Wang, is there?

Last edited by 0lddM@n on Nov 17th, 2009 at 07:53

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0lddM@n
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#258 “Quote” Edit Post
guys,question

have you tested f,f+2 after B!, is it possible?..

on bigs?..

thanks

and the frames for f,f+1+2

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0lddM@n
Raijin
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Philippines
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#259 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by kloude
f+2 2

perfect punish for (exmple)

paul's d+1, 2

nina's b 1+4


it's not nc ,right? only 1st will connect

how bout d/f+4?, can't remember punishing those moves in my game.

i think you can ss after blcking paul's d+1, then 2 will whiff

don't get to play w/ a lot of ninas and pauls here in our turf

Last edited by 0lddM@n on Nov 17th, 2009 at 06:58

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kloude
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1252
From: Philippines
#260 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by 0lddM@n
it's not nc ,right? only 1st will connect

how bout d/f+4?, can't remember punishing those moves in my game.

i think you can ss after blcking paul's d+1, then 2 will whiff

don't get to play w/ a lot of ninas and pauls here in our turf


im not sure if its not nc

but most of the time f 2 2 connects all.

for example

heihachi ff+2

and chreddy d/f 3+4

i use f 2 2 for punishing.
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