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dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1701
#61 “Quote” Edit Post
These Pakistanis are damn good. They made their way to the top. But yeah, Knee didn't want to win. At this point, he's being the wise old master, letting the young 'uns come up and get a taste of winning at the big stages. Or he's being full of himself and plain overconfident in picking marduk and kazuya and shit. Looked to me like he was sandbagging hard though.

Can't wait for Season 3 to come and mess up everyone's comfort zones.
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SSfox
Foxstepman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3311
#62 “Quote” Edit Post
Fun fact: It's not first time Knee played VS Awais, they already played in OUGaming 2018 aka the tournament where Arslan was put on the map by beating Knee 5-0. And this was actually a pretty close set!!

Losers Bracket - Knee (Kazuya/Steve) vs Awais (Josie) - OUGaming 2018 - Season 2 Dubai - Tekken 7
dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1701
#63 “Quote” Edit Post
I don't know man. To me, it sometimes doesn't seem convincing when Knee plays against these dudes. Knee missed quite a few opportunities to attack and punish this guy, I was screaming inside my mind, "WTF is going on here... Has Knee has taken some of that big oil money to take losses against these guys?"

Then again, Knee must be above 30 years old or something now. Maybe he's showing signs of arthritis or someshit from all those years of playing tekken. The pakistanis are still early 20s... prime of their tekken lives. JDCR is also over 30. Nobi must be close to 30.

Nobi came so close to beating this guy though. Kudos to Awais for bringing it back from the brink of death.
Signature Bring back [kunimitsu] for T7!
Fernandito
Sweet Spanish Macho
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2438
From: Spain
XBL: Steam:FerDeSantander
#64 “Quote” Edit Post
You better return to Bryan and stop using everyone Knee. And I am a multiple character kind of player too, but you know, I don't attend events where a lot of $$$ is on the table, case in which I'd for sure stick with the character I like the most/play the best.
Signature Long Live the King of Iron Fist, Heihachi Mishima.

wrazor
Champion
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 273
#65 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by SSfox
Fun fact: It's not first time Knee played VS Awais, they already played in OUGaming 2018 aka the tournament where Arslan was put on the map by beating Knee 5-0. And this was actually a pretty close set!!

Losers Bracket - Knee (Kazuya/Steve) vs Awais (Josie) - OUGaming 2018 - Season 2 Dubai - Tekken 7

Do you mean awais hani was in this tourney? The link you gave is of awais iqbal playing as josie vs knee.
Fernandito
Sweet Spanish Macho
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2438
From: Spain
XBL: Steam:FerDeSantander
#66 “Quote” Edit Post
Of course Knee being older is another fact to his undoing at long last. He must be around 28 or so, maybe 30, and that has an impact on you always. I too was a killer in every game I liked to play back then in the arcades when I was a boy. The moment in entered my thirties (way before that actually around 26 or so) I began to realize I was no longer as fast on reflexes and at making fast decisions in videogames as I were from 6-27 or so years old.

Life is life. Body and brain begins to wear out little before your thirties. Knee should end his career in all of his superior skills with Bryan, and perhaps retire with a big win at next Evo against this new generation of kids.

And then there's JDCR..., oh well. Long time no see him winning anything, and he must be around 25-26 or so.., I mean on the verge of his inevitable decline/twilight too, just like Knee.

Anyway, the twilight of a God continues to be nothing like ours, mere mortals. Even when folks like Knee have reached the bottom, they will still be galaxies beyond the ability of the rest of us. There's a difference in this.
Signature Long Live the King of Iron Fist, Heihachi Mishima.

dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1701
#67 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, true that.

I just looked it up... Knee is 35 or something. Qudans is 33 or something. JDCR is 31 or so. Nobi is 28. I'm guessing a lot of the other top Koreans and Japs are atleast late 20s.

JDCR is probably going through a mid-life crisis or someshit. If I understood correctly, he's been reconsidering his future, which could mean he might play less and less of tekken going forward.

Knee competing at 35 and consistently showing up in top 3 is damn good though. And I sometimes think he's showing commitment to the game and career by playing so many different characters at a high level. He could as well be competitive into his 40s. Or it could be signs of boredom with the game and the lifestyle.

What do you think, guys? Will most of most of them have moved on from professional tekken by the time we see Tekken 8? I personally don't see a reason for them to move away. Because the skills needed for high level tekken are built over so many years, I think game knowledge and meta strategies acquired over the years would somewhat balance out the gradual loss of reflexes and physical and mental speed... that's if it happens. There are legit ways to retain you capabilities and skills at any activity even into late middle age... maybe even old age.

But if people do tend to move away, I hope they move from playing tekken professionally to something like making tekken professionally. Inputs of these legacy players could be valuable in designing the gameplay systems of T8.

Last edited by dodecadozen on Aug 26th, 2019 at 15:38

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Fernandito
Sweet Spanish Macho
Joined: Sep 2009
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#68 “Quote” Edit Post
woa knee 35. Then yes he might at any time announce he no longer plays this seriously when t8 is released or something like that, for then play more casual. And this presuming t8 might still be as conservative as always, assumption still in the air.

I don't lose hope T8 will reject all this 2d stuff we have had to eat for breakfast, such as armor and that. T7 has still been some sorta experimental crossver, very probably in anticipation for txsf.

But yes sure by T8 people like Knee, Qudans and old the "old" ones will move on to another thing, or again just playmore casually. Knee's last desire (perhaps strategy) to play with every character in t8 might be legacy stuff already before he moves on.

I'm not sure if there'll be another folk to win as many times as Knee has won in tournaments, let alone he has ended up controlling the entire roster, let alone using them in events for $$$ (that speaks volumes of Knees true skill in a game so complex like tekken). This will take time and perhaps another generation to beat.

For now, and until some many years have passed, Knee has proven to be the best and will continue to be so in retirement. His case is like Cristiano Ronaldo's career en el Real Madrid. Numbers speak, and that would be all that matters when you have to point at that one who truly is the best.
Signature Long Live the King of Iron Fist, Heihachi Mishima.

SSfox
Foxstepman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3311
#69 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by wrazor
Do you mean awais hani was in this tourney? The link you gave is of awais iqbal playing as josie vs knee.


I though it was the same guy, if he isn't apologize then.
enko
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 313
#70 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by SSfox
Not to diss Awais in anyway but i suspect Knee was more of experimenting than trying hard to win the tournament, it's not a master event and he's guarantee at this point to qualify to twt finals, as he stick with Marduk the whole 1st set (cool marduk btw), and didn't even pick or tried with Steve, Geese, Paul, Devil Jin or some others of his best characters. He picked Bryan VS rickstah and didn't tried with Bryan here either.

Anyways GGs though and also won't change that this Awais is indeed legit.


I will give Awais credit. Arslan told before they don't have super strong Marduk, so maybe Knee tried to take advantage of it. In the first set of the match, knee could have won that but drop a combo. So Knee might have felt that has a good chance with Marduk. But when knee lost again he might have felt that switching character is too late now as Awais might adopt to it. SO knee saved changing character on the reset.

Knee might be reluctant to use Steve against a Pakistani player cause he knows Pakistani has Heera Malik( a super good Steve player). Many Pakistani even consider Heera Malik as their best player. The last time Knee used Steve against a Pakistani thing did not go out well. Knee's Devil JIn is also not performing well. Knee nowadays uses Paul as counter pick against Jack. Previously when things are not working out well(like in this tournament), KNee tried Paul against Book(TGU that book has won) and it did not work out.

After the tournament Knee has a long set with Awais(not the one that won the tournament). This Awais uses Katarina and beat Knee(including his steve) 18/9.
enko
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 313
#71 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dodecadozen
These Pakistanis are damn good. They made their way to the top. But yeah, Knee didn't want to win. At this point, he's being the wise old master, letting the young 'uns come up and get a taste of winning at the big stages. Or he's being full of himself and plain overconfident in picking marduk and kazuya and shit. Looked to me like he was sandbagging hard though.

Can't wait for Season 3 to come and mess up everyone's comfort zones.


After the cause knee's trophy got destroyed we came up to this. No to excuses dude. Awais played better against Knee. Credit to him. It is absurd to think knee did not want to win. Why knee did not allow the euro players or anakin to win that will propel them? as i told, no with excuses. I will give Awais a credit. His Akuma is insane and has beaten Arslan before.

After the tournament Knee has a long set with another Awais(not the one that won the tournament) and has beaten Knee(inluding his Steve) using Katarina. The score is 18/9. Knee commented that Katarina is so hard to play against.

Wait for Heera Malik(many Pakistani consider him as their best). This Heera Malik has beaten Arslan and Awais Honey.

Last edited by enko on Aug 27th, 2019 at 03:52

dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1701
#72 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm not making excuses for Knee. I don't gain anything by it. Read all my posts fully. I'm speculating based on what I saw.

Of course credit to the Pakistanis. They obviously did damn well. I'm just saying that the finals with Knee didn't convince me because Knee not only dropped match winning combos, but was also slow on whiff punish and attack opportunities. Whether it was genuine nerves or something else is up to you to tell.

I look forward to watching more Pakistanis on the big stage though.
Signature Bring back [kunimitsu] for T7!
Fernandito
Sweet Spanish Macho
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2438
From: Spain
XBL: Steam:FerDeSantander
#73 “Quote” Edit Post
I do use Knee's age as an excuse, as well as to another fact we all should know well that consist in that when you're doing the same thing for many years, which is playing tekken in this case, in the end you reach a peak and from there it is all free falling?, reasons to this?, of course again age but also the inevitable ocupational hazard.

So what?, ain't that true?, of course these Pakistan guys outperformed him, but first they are all way younger which is a plus when it comes to brain and reflexes, and second, I don't think they play all the roster like Knee does, let alone have the balls to probe it at events where $$$$ is the thing.

Are these guys good?, of course, but they still have a looong long way to achieve what Knee has achieved due to the fact they are still young, and aagin like Ronaldo's example I used before, the numbers they still don't have in order to prove it.

We still need like a decade or so to come to conclusions. Until then, Knee is the best and most complete tekken player the scene has ever seen.

And don't tell me I'm using this post as an excuse to look down on Arslan, Awai or whoever, if you wanna have healthy conversation with me after this. I mean.., Dodecadozen wasn't excusing him too, but oh boy facts are facts. The first one is very clear age/generational gaps, and second but not less important, "ocupational hazard" caused by time doing the same thing.

Hail to the new generation of youngster to dominate the scene?, hail, but again until at the very least one decade has passed and we begin to gather and analize numbers, Knee will still remain as number one.

Fernandito has spoken. Knee-L
Signature Long Live the King of Iron Fist, Heihachi Mishima.

enko
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 313
#74 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dodecadozen
I'm not making excuses for Knee. I don't gain anything by it. Read all my posts fully. I'm speculating based on what I saw.

Of course credit to the Pakistanis. They obviously did damn well. I'm just saying that the finals with Knee didn't convince me because Knee not only dropped match winning combos, but was also slow on whiff punish and attack opportunities. Whether it was genuine nerves or something else is up to you to tell.

I look forward to watching more Pakistanis on the big stage though.


Knee dropped combos before and played worse than this before(maybe cause of pressure). Knee dropped a crucial combo at twt finals against rangchu(and he dropped combos at other tournaments as well). in this tournament chanel and ulsan also dropped crucial combos against knee in this tournament. so dropping combo can happen to anybody(specially if you are feeling the pressure). failing to do whiff punish is also common if you are pressured or suffering from nerves.

knee must be feeling the nerves of winning against a high profile pakistani player not only because of awais tremendous pressure but also cause his match against awais(a pakistani) is a high profile match and the tekken world is watching.
enko
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 313
#75 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Fernandito
I do use Knee's age as an excuse, as well as to another fact we all should know well that consist in that when you're doing the same thing for many years, which is playing tekken in this case, in the end you reach a peak and from there it is all free falling?, reasons to this?, of course again age but also the inevitable ocupational hazard.

So what?, ain't that true?, of course these Pakistan guys outperformed him, but first they are all way younger which is a plus when it comes to brain and reflexes, and second, I don't think they play all the roster like Knee does, let alone have the balls to probe it at events where $$$$ is the thing.

Are these guys good?, of course, but they still have a looong long way to achieve what Knee has achieved due to the fact they are still young, and aagin like Ronaldo's example I used before, the numbers they still don't have in order to prove it.

We still need like a decade or so to come to conclusions. Until then, Knee is the best and most complete tekken player the scene has ever seen.

And don't tell me I'm using this post as an excuse to look down on Arslan, Awai or whoever, if you wanna have healthy conversation with me after this. I mean.., Dodecadozen wasn't excusing him too, but oh boy facts are facts. The first one is very clear age/generational gaps, and second but not less important, "ocupational hazard" caused by time doing the same thing.

Hail to the new generation of youngster to dominate the scene?, hail, but again until at the very least one decade has passed and we begin to gather and analize numbers, Knee will still remain as number one.

Fernandito has spoken. Knee-L


i am not even telling that you are making excuses regarding age. i am not even pointing about what knee achieved. i am just pointing the absurd excuse. what i told is Dodecadozen telling that knee did not want to win is an absurd excuse.

speaking of age at recent tournaments, knee has beaten a young strong player like ulsan, but has trouble against strong pakistani players. knee in his tweet mentioned that the reason pakistani are very good at tekken is cause of its popularity in pakistan(arcade scene). late at night and there are still 20-30 players at pakistan playing tekken at arcades. tekken used to be big at arcades in korea.

all time ranking(knee is arguably the best). but the current best player is arslan. and with opportunity given to these pakistani players, they are showing the world how good they are.

Last edited by enko on Aug 27th, 2019 at 10:56

enko
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 313
#76 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dodecadozen
Yeah, true that.

I just looked it up... Knee is 35 or something. Qudans is 33 or something. JDCR is 31 or so. Nobi is 28. I'm guessing a lot of the other top Koreans and Japs are atleast late 20s.

JDCR is probably going through a mid-life crisis or someshit. If I understood correctly, he's been reconsidering his future, which could mean he might play less and less of tekken going forward.

Knee competing at 35 and consistently showing up in top 3 is damn good though. And I sometimes think he's showing commitment to the game and career by playing so many different characters at a high level. He could as well be competitive into his 40s. Or it could be signs of boredom with the game and the lifestyle.

What do you think, guys? Will most of most of them have moved on from professional tekken by the time we see Tekken 8? I personally don't see a reason for them to move away. Because the skills needed for high level tekken are built over so many years, I think game knowledge and meta strategies acquired over the years would somewhat balance out the gradual loss of reflexes and physical and mental speed... that's if it happens. There are legit ways to retain you capabilities and skills at any activity even into late middle age... maybe even old age.

But if people do tend to move away, I hope they move from playing tekken professionally to something like making tekken professionally. Inputs of these legacy players could be valuable in designing the gameplay systems of T8.


I don't think knee or jdcr will move away from tekken anytime soon as this is their source of income. in his interview ,knee told that few years ago(2015) that he is thinking of moving away from tekken cause there is not enough money at it for a decent living. but now knee told that he is earning better from streams, youtube channel and tournaments.
dodecadozen
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1701
#77 “Quote” Edit Post
@enko: Like I said before, read my posts fully.

What you're saying is mere speculation too.

First, this is not TWT where the prize money at stake is huge. This is some event in malaysia. Not even his TWT entry is at stake here. Next, Knee has been competing for a loooong time at the top level. You don't think he'd be accustomed to taking wins and losses in his stride? Losing at this level is not new to him. You think he'd be prone to nervousness like a kid? The guy plays against high profile players for breakfast, lunch and dinner even when he isn't competing. Now, I'm not saying he's completely above feeling nervous or pressured, but more likely than not, that's not the case.

You're saying it's common to drop combos or not punish well for someone of knee's experience. No, man, it's rare. He's competing, not playing casually. And you're saying Knee picked Marduk and Kazuya just because Arslan told him Pakistan doesn't know how to play Marduk well. It looked to me like even knee didn't know Marduk well. To me, all of this is absurd.

Honestly, I love seeing the koreans dethroned by some dudes that came out of nowhere. But I also suspect things aren't as straightforward.
Signature Bring back [kunimitsu] for T7!
Fernandito
Sweet Spanish Macho
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2438
From: Spain
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#78 “Quote” Edit Post
In Ryan Heart's words: "Knee breathes Tekken; Knee is tekken"

Knee sure also wipped the floor with which would be my generation but there in his Korea. Now he faces same generational switch as well against Arslan and others, and sure he will have to quit sooner or later. It's just life. You get old eventually, and to continue the fight against much younger guys whose brain is still working as intended in terms of speed and flexes proves to be challenging at all times.
Signature Long Live the King of Iron Fist, Heihachi Mishima.

enko
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 313
#79 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by dodecadozen
@enko: Like I said before, read my posts fully.

What you're saying is mere speculation too.

First, this is not TWT where the prize money at stake is huge. This is some event in malaysia. Not even his TWT entry is at stake here. Next, Knee has been competing for a loooong time at the top level. You don't think he'd be accustomed to taking wins and losses in his stride? Losing at this level is not new to him. You think he'd be prone to nervousness like a kid? The guy plays against high profile players for breakfast, lunch and dinner even when he isn't competing. Now, I'm not saying he's completely above feeling nervous or pressured, but more likely than not, that's not the case.

You're saying it's common to drop combos or not punish well for someone of knee's experience. No, man, it's rare. He's competing, not playing casually. And you're saying Knee picked Marduk and Kazuya just because Arslan told him Pakistan doesn't know how to play Marduk well. It looked to me like even knee didn't know Marduk well. To me, all of this is absurd.

Honestly, I love seeing the koreans dethroned by some dudes that came out of nowhere. But I also suspect things aren't as straightforward.


Saying Knee does not tried to win is an absurd excuse.

These are other absurd excuses i heard from knee fans.

1. he is friendly
2. his trophy got destroyed
3. he is poisoned


Knee is human, nobody is exempted from nerves. have you not seen how knee reacted at evo against arslan and anakin? he is shaking his head, taking a deep breath moving his body a lot. he is feeling the nerves. as i told, knee dropped a critical combo against rangchu at twt finals. i have seen knee before failing to punish properly and dropping a combo. no human is exempted from these..

Awais is a tremendous player. I give him credit for making knee play like that. Awais does not even have his own gaming stick and just borrowed. and this is awais first twt tournament and he has beaten nobi, ulsan and knee at top 8. i will give awais a tremendous credit and not absurd excuses.

Knee also picked Kazuya against Arslan. The last time knee tried a steve user against a pakistani, he got 0-6. This awais has beaten Arslan plenty of times. knee used marduk against chanel in this tournament and has beaten chanel. knee also tried marduk in the richest tekken tournament in history against qudans(trying to counter pick). why knee does not allow chanel(he has so many wins against chanel) to win here? again stop with these absurd excuses. awais is a tremendous player.

knee mentioned he joined this twt to be able to compete against these pakistani players. knee even mentioned he wants to go to pakistan to train and improve. he has given arslan credit as arslan improved his game. if knee is competitive at casual and ranking matches, what more with tournaments where the world is watching him against a pakistani player. it is a disrespect to knee, to the game and to pakistani players with that absurd idea.

Last edited by enko on Aug 28th, 2019 at 02:45

enko
Lone Wolf
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 313
#80 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by fernandito
Knee sure also wipped the floor with which would be my generation but there in his Korea. Now he faces same generational switch as well against Arslan and others, and sure he will have to quit sooner or later. It's just life. You get old eventually, and to continue the fight against much younger guys whose brain is still working as intended in terms of speed and flexes proves to be challenging at all times.



well except against the pakistani players ,knee it seems does not have problems with the top young players today.

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