You vs the world: TTT2 Baek vs thread

Page Splits 12>
Share This Topic
Share
Subscribe/Jump Subscribe This Topic
< >
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Hello people. This guide hopes to answer your question, "OH MY GOD HOW DO I DEAL WITH, like, PAUL or whatever?"
Each post will be dedicated to 3 characters, and be in the following format:
1) Punishing list (NOTE: I don't know if I should include duckable/LP'able strings or just block punishing)
2) General playstyle of character (EG: Armor King is a spacing character, Kazuya is a punishing character and so on)
3) Matchup discussion and what you should do to beat the character

This is going to be crazy difficult to finish by my own, so any help will be appreciated.

NOTE: HUGE THANKS to Iron Lobster and his guide for inspiration as well as for him to borrow anti-character strats. Check it out here

TABLE OF CONTENTS
1) Alex/Roger Jr; Alisa
2) Ancient Ogre; Angel
3) Anna Williams; Armor King
4) Asuka; Baek
5) Bob/Slim Bob; Bruce
6) Bryan; Chreddy(+Tiger)
7) Craig; Dr. Bosconovitch
8) Devil Jin; Feng
9) Laws; Ganryu
10) Heihachi Mishima; Hwoarang
11) Jacks; Jaycee
12) Jin Kazama; Jinpachi Mishima
13) Jun Kazama/Unknown; Kazuya Mishima
14) King; Kuma/Panda
15) Kunimitsu; Lars
16) Lee Chaolan/Violet; Lei
17) Leo; Lili/Sebastian
18) Ling/Miharu; Michelle Chang
19) Miguel; Nina
20) Ogre; Paul
21) Raven; Dragunov
22) Steve; Wang
23) Yoshimitsu; Zafina

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Dec 11th, 2013 at 06:22

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
1)
Alex/Roger Jr
(1)Punishing list:
Both character moves
1+2,3: 1+2,4
1+2,4: CC, CD+3
3+4: 1+2,4
f+4,3: df+2 or 2,2 (will be explained later)
f+4,3,2: df+2
f+1+2,2: 2,2
f+3+4: ?
df+1,2 (no delay): 2,2
d+1,n,2: 2,2
d+2: WS 4,4,3~f
d+1+2: 4,3,3~f
d+1+2,1+2: 2,2
d+1+2,1+2,2: 4,3,3~f
d+3+4_FC df+4: WS 2,1 (on max range WS 4 - the second hit of the axe kicks will whiff)
db+3: CC, CD+3
b+2,3: CC, CD+3
b+2,3,3+4: FC d+2
b+4: 2,2
uf+4: 4,3,3~f
ff+2: 4,3,3~f
Ali kicks (While running 4,4,4): CC, CD+3
WR 4,2: df+2
WS 2,2: WS 4,4,3~f
FC df+2: 4,3,3~f
FC d+1+2: df+2
ROC 1+2: df+2 or CD+3
BOB 2: CD+3
CD 1 (AGF): df+2
CD 1+2: 4,3,3~f

Alex Specific Moves
db+1+2: 4,3,3~f

Roger Specific moves
db+1+2: 4,3,3~f into combo (it floats)

(2)General Playstyle:
Range 0.5, 1 poking

(3)Matchup discussion:
(I'll only be naming Roger here but this strat applies to both Alex and Roger, unless mentioned specifically)
- Roger's pokes are really good. A good Roger will be playing T4 with you and doing a lot of SS 2,1, SS df+1>2, SS grab, and will be looking for SS hopkick or backdash ff+2 if you're near a wall. Unfortunately Baek cannot really handle that kind of pressure extremely well, so the best I can tell you is to try and predict what the opponent will do and then punish him for it (eg SS into 2,1 -> duck and WS 4,4,3~f before the second hit comes out etc)

- 1+2 followups are seeable. Learn to see them on reaction. The low (4) is way, way slower than the mid (3).

- f+4,3 is like Jaycee's double hopkicks. f+4,3 is launch punishable, but if you try that you'll eat the (f+4,3,)2. So option select with a 10 framer (2,2 but I personally heart 1,1).

- ROC (Rocket Stance) 1+2 does not B! anymore so staying down is a less risky option should you see him charge. ROC 3 is an actual safe low which gives cray cray +6 on hit, and ROC 3+4 (the butt bump) gives him solid + frames and W!'s (at the wall, whatever you do you're wrong and you either take massive damage or more pressure).

- Roger's grab game is really solid (but he doesn't have an iSW), so learn to break GS and DDT based on the throw animation and not the arms (not that his tiny arms allow for good throw breaking anyway). The throw mixup is especially nasty when his back is to the wall as both grabs switch sides on hit (not on break).

- Most Roger players will use the range 2 df+3_d+3+4 mix-up. df+3 is a homing move so there's no stepping it. d+3+4 is launch punishable but at tip range you only get WS 4 - the second one whiffs right in his face.

- Roger doesn't have the best panic buttons (he doesn't even get a B! off of his magic 4 - Alex does - and SS 4 got super nerfed because it only launches on CH) unless you're near the wall (CH 1,2,3 W! into nastiness). Also his range is real ass, so backdash and hunt for some CH 4 juice.


Alisa Bosconovitch
(1)Punishing list:
db+3: WS 4,4,3~f

(2)General Playstyle:
Range 1.5 poking, keepout

(3)Matchup discussion:
Turtle back and Alisa shuts down (funny because she's a robot)

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Dec 29th, 2013 at 04:49

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
2)
Ancient Ogre
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:
Punishing and whiff punishing

(3)Matchup discussion:
- AO is very much not the beast he once was in Tag 1. He does have some stuff in this game but overall he's very unsafe and has very bad tracking.

- From range, sidewalking right will evade most of the stuff AO players will use at that range, eg f+2. db+2, another key move to look out for (i27 and -17 on block) can track you and give him a FC mixup (which BTW you can evade everything but FC df+1 and WS 2 after eating it by sidewalking left). The homing moves he does have are risky, and everything else doesn't track. df+3 is -12 on block, db+2 as mentioned above is -17 on block and WS 2 is -16 on block.

- Learn to punish whatever you can (and that's a lot) because otherwise you're giving away free damage which is definitely something you should not be doing. Keep the ball in your court for as long as possible (AO's offense is risky but good 50/50).

- Where AO is very punishable, he does have boss punishers. His i10 punish gives good frames into his silly 50/50 guessing games, his i12 does insane damage at 47, and he has a hopkick at i15 (which he can convert into red life with most of the cast). f+2 covers pushback.



Angel
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:
Punishing

(3)Matchup discussion:
- Angel does not have a good backdash at all so it's very hard for her to backdash out of situations where other characters can. Also, her fastest mid is 15 frames, which is her df+1 that's a part of her df+1,2 string. These two combined, Angel's poking game is very bad, because neither does she have the ability to back away from poking wars, nor does she have a mid to use for such purposes.

- Angel overall is an extremely punishable character, so like against AO, punish whatever you can.

- Angel does possess the basic Mishimas tools of 1,1,2, 1,2,2, f+4, EWGF, HS and a wavedash. So, just like against all Mishimas, don't whiff or you'll die. Don't let her punish you because you'll eat a chunk of damage.

- Sidewalking left defeats a lot of her options and the options she does have to track are punishable. She is very bad at keeping people off of her so stay up in her grill.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Dec 11th, 2013 at 08:55

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
3)
Anna Williams
(1)Punishing list:
db+3: CC, CD+3

(2)General Playstyle:
Range 0 offense and poking

(3)Matchup discussion:
- Anna functions basically like Nina but she has some notable weaknesses. First of all her main standing poke low, df+4, is launchable. Combined with the plethora of other standing lows she has that are punishable for not that much reward, and Anna's lows aren't really that great, and she has nothing quite like Nina db+3. She does compensate for this however, by having very good highs that are + on block, like ff+2 (her homing move that gives +5 on block and KND into free df+4 on hit) and qcf+1 (an elbow that gives +2~5 on block, +4~7 on hit and combo on CH). This makes it so that she relies on her highs to make you duck.

- Just like her sister, Anna has range issues and functions really well only in range 0, where her moves like df+1,2, jabs, df+4 hit. The further away you get from range 0 the less scary her offense gets.

- She also possesses a top tier FC mixup game with FC df+2 mixed up with FC f+1_WS 2, both of which are launchers. In predictable situations you can SWL to beat this mixup, but if the Anna goes into FC as you techroll, you pretty much have to guess. The ultimate high risk high reward mixup.

- Anna doesn't have the best punishers in the game by any means, and her -10 to -13 is mediocre damage and she gives up frames for it. She does have a wallsplat at -14 but she doesn't have a 15 frame launcher. It's just as bad from WS for her, as her fastest WS launcher is i18, and her i11 to i17 punishers aren't very scary. However her ff+3 is a good whiff punisher.



Armor King
(1)Punishing list:
1+2 (~b): 2,2
1+2,4: 4,3,3~f
3+4,2: d+4,3,3,3~f
f+2: 2,2
f+2,1: 2,2
f+1+2: 2,2
f+1+4: df+2
df+2: 4,3,3~f
d+3: WS 4,4,3~f
d+4: WS 4,4,3~f
d+1+4,1+2: CD+3 (difficult)
d+1,n,4: 2,2
d+3+4: WS 2,1
d+3+4,3: df+2 or b+4 from far
db+2: 2,2
db+2,3: b+4 (only in close range)
db+3: CC CD+3
db+4: d+4,3,3,3~f
b+1,2: 4,3,3~f
b+2,1: 4,3,3~f
b+4: 2,2, except at max range
b+1+4: 2,2
uf+4: 4,3,3~f or df+1,3 (depending on the situation)
ff+4: 1+2,4
ff+3+4: 2,2
ff,n,2: WS 2,1
WS 1: 2,2
WS 2: 2,2
CD+2: 2,2
SS 2: 2,2
SS 2,1: 2,2
SS 4: 4,3,3~f
BT 3: CD+3
BT 4: 2,2

(2)General Playstyle:
Spacing and punishing; grab-heavy

(3)Matchup discussion:
- Armor King is diet King and diet Mishimas. He can sorta enforce a WD mix-up with DU_grabs/hopkick, but he has no great low out of crouch dash (CD ali kick coming soon). He can also play very grabby, mashing grabs left and right. His GS vs DDT mix-up is really tough, so you just have to guess (arm issue vs both grabs looking really identical in the opening animation)
Overall, he's much more defensive. An AK is looking to whiff and block punish everything you do, and with Baek being the master of eating punishment, you have to be a bit careful. Also, AK himself is punishable on his core moves (ie DU, shoulder, hopkick), and you just cannot let him away with any of his punishable moves.

- Duck jabs are not as good on AK as it is on other 'Mishimas' because of his hopkick. So you have to be careful with your duck jabs. They can work, because AK is reliant on highs/throws, but it is a bit more risky.
Also, the anti-Mishima strat of ducking after whiffing everything doesn't work as well on him because of his hopkick.

- When AK whiffs something, he hangs out for quite a long time, so you just need to be on point.

- df+2,1 is AK's staple poke (alongside df+1) so you HAVE to duck and launch (preferably hopkick as it'll crush the low should he go with the full tenstring); don't let him get away with that move ever.

- d+1,n,4 will piss you off to no end as it's his extension after duck jab (and duck jabs are really good panic buttons against Baek). A lot of AK players try to grab off of it (it looks a bit hard to break).

- If you duck a grab, dash_CC CD+3 him. He messed up big time, and you should take full advantage.

- Also, his tracking is kinda bad. His only main rewarding tracker to his left is WS 1, which is out of crouch. Other than that, you can step a lot of his stuff with b+3.

- Punish him back, and try to stay standing and break those grabs, and you should be okay. It'll be tough, but you can do it.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Dec 11th, 2013 at 09:54

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
CaCarmen
Iron Fist God
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1078
From: China
PSN: cacacarmen
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Cool idea, I like this.

I don't know about including strings with highs or that are low parryable, but strings one can b1_b3_b2 (maybe even punch parry? But that might be too much) out of might be cool, since thats very Baek specific (theres certain things he can avoid that other characters can't, like if I remember correctly, Baek can b3 the low ender of Lili's jab string, which can't normally be stepped).
Signature "老外的LEI很烦人了"
"还是换人吧"
"你心中怨念深重,怒火冲天门。导致你铁拳技能急速下降"
"我早就说过,你换几个普通角色你就发现你也很弱。。 "
"卡波拉门"
Mr.Taliban
5th Dan
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 48
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
great work budding fighter. i would like to help you by sharing some stuffs i know

alisa - b+3+4 3+4 can be stepped in between, and also, it can be ducked. How I punish this is block the first hit then duck(baek will go under the kick and it will miss causing both characters to be backturned with each other) into quick turn around WS 3444. I hope you understood what i meant. My english is not so good.

christie - b+1,4 is b+1 interruptable(block b+1 then before the 4 comes, interrupt with b+1. the 4 is float status so b+1 will bound. press 5 to go directly to TA!).

Ill add more later. I forgot the other. LOL
Signature Was wŁnschen Sie?
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
4)
Asuka
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:
Annoying school girl

(3)Matchup discussion:
- I used to think this was a really really horrific matchup until recently. SSL 2 beats a lot of Baek moves and SSR 2 even has the power to sidestep d+4 on rare occasions. To stop her from abusing SS 2 you have to whiff punish it (because the block punish outside absolute point blank you do get off of it is pathetic to say the least).

- Asuka by herself doesn't break turtles really well. She has db+3 which is okay by itself but it's slow. Her mids, especially stuff like 1+2, is totally worth not ducking for. Also her lows aren't any good except for d+1+2 but that is very easy to avoid. Her pressure is mostly about you panic buttoning so she can crush them.
That is the saving grace of this matchup, really. Get a life lead and turtle back. Force Asuka to play your game.

- Kazama full crouch game by itself isn't really scary, because she doesn't have a good launcher from it, but it can be annoying. A well timed b+3 will evade every option from her FC. Even if you do eat anything, especially the FC df+2 (0 on hit), don't panic and b+3. Most players use her FC game from f+2~d, so ID the cancel, and by the time you do, b+3 can evade all FC tools (if you're not really slow).

- Be aware of her awesome crushing tools. Cancans (d+3+4) is an i14 lh move that crushes at frame 4-5 and launches on CH. Mostly used as a spacing tool. If you eat the low you can't duck the high so take it as chip damage and rush in (not mindlessly). b+3, an evasive launcher that crushes lows at frame 10 (a frame slower than generic hopkicks); punish this please, or the Asuka player is getting away with murder. Also, her reversals may seem like a headache, and they are, but you can bait them out and either low them to keep going or punish them.



Baek
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Dec 25th, 2013 at 08:25

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
5)
Bob/Slim Bob
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:
Poke poke poke sidestep; keepout; CH fishing

(3)Matchup discussion:
- Bob is a very annoyingly good character. His jabs, first of all, have extremely good range and almost act as magic 4's, except they trade the CH launch for speed and recovery. So your main concern when trying to get in an a Bob is to thread the needle and go between his jabs (which of course he can mix up how many jabs he wants to do).

- Bob's range game is also good due to a bevy of his moves reaching super far, like CD+1, uf+1+2,1+2 (for whiff punishment), ff+2, and because you as Baek have very few options, and even less that are safe, it's a tough road ahead of you.

- When you get up close, Bob's SS 1+2 is like one and a half sidesteps together. That, coupled with the fact that Baek's tracking is not the best in the world, really limits your options up close in a broader sense. Also because if you try to do your tracking moves more often, Bob's df+2, which is a great CH tool, will catch you, so it's about reading the opponent and deciding what he will do and go ahead accordingly. To beat df+2 you must either SSR or mash faster. To beat SS 1+2 you can either backdash or advance with a ff+4. It's all about being able to predict what the Bob player does.

- When Bob is on offense, it's rough. That is because his df+1 will catch SSR and df+2 will catch SSL, in a very basic sense. SWL against a poking Bob (df+1, db+3, jabs etc), and SWR against a more risky Bob (Hellsweep, df+2 etc). You need to play smart, make reads and try to establish your own momentum.

Bruce:
(1)Punishing list:
1,4,3: df+2
d+4: WS 2,1
d+3,4: Block low autoduck the high, WS 2,1 or CC df+2. If low hit and high blocked, go to 'How to deal with MTS'.
db+3,4: See above
f+2,4: 4,3,3~f
f+2,3: WS 4,4,3~f
1,2,1: 2,2
1,2,1,2: 4,3,3~f
1,2,3 or 2,3: 2,2
1,2,d+4 or 2,d+4: WS 2,1 or low parry.
3,2: 4,3,3~f
3,2~f: db+1 (punishes and interrupts)
4~f: FC d+1
f+4,3: 2,2 or db+1 to go under (f+4,3,)4 and punish f+4,3
f+3,1: Duck and WS 2,1, else safe
df+1,2: 2,2
df+1,4: WS 4,4,3~f
df+1,2,1,4: 4,3,3~f or duck the third hit and WS 2,1
df+2: 4,3,3~f
df+3,1: Go make a tea, have it slow, come back, and CD+3
df+3+4,3,3,3,3: Third and fourth hit, df+2, Fifth hit CD+3
d+3+4: 4,3,3~f
d+3,4~f_db+3,4~f: 4,3,3~f (Interesting fact about db+3 is that if you think it's coming, you can jump over him with Baek pretty easily)
db+2: 4,3,3~f
db+2,1: 4,3,3~f
db+2,1,4: df+2
db+4: df+2
db+3+4: WS 4,4,3~f_LP on reaction
b+1,2,1: 4,3,3~f
b+3,4: f+1+2,4
b+4,3: 2,2
ub+3+4,4: 2,2
b+4,3,4: CD+3 or interrupt the third hit with df+2.
uf+4: 4,3,3~f
uf+3: 4,3,3~f
uf+3+4: 1+2,4
CD+2: 1+2,4
CD+3: WS 4,4,3~f
CD+3+4,3+4: CD+3
WS 2,1: Duck 2nd hit and WS 2,1 or block both hits and 2,2
WS 2: 2,2
FC df+4: WS 4,4,3~f (except for far-max range), CC b+4 (really tough)
FC df,d,df+1 (aka Sagat Shoryuken)

(2)General Playstyle:
CH hunting, spacing

(3)Matchup discussion:
- Learn to fuzzy guard/option select between:
df+1,4_df+1,4~4
f+4,3,d+4_f+4,3,d+4~4
b+4,3,d+4_b+4,3,d+4~4

- Bruce's tracking is ass (except for b+1+2 and 3+4, most of his moves don't track). His grab game and low game is pretty weak (no oki from his grabs whatsoever). His pressure game is also average. For the most part Bruce will be looking to space you out with b+2, and magic 4, and poke every once in a while with standing 3 (i13, good range but ass tracking) and d+4 (his not so generic low that you can launch for some happy times)

- Learn to launch MTS transitions on whiff. Also, some Bruce players (the not-so-smart ones), since they read about how cheap BLACK 2 (b+2 is his best move; i17, has great range and is barely safe, but it's tracking is ass) is on teh internetz, they'll pretty much spam it. Sidewalk and launch.

- Whenever he spikes you down, stay down or you'll get picked up by d+3,4 MTS f+1 B! into sad times.
He doesn't have a ground hitting mid and his unblockable doesn't track anymore, reducing his reset game to really bad.
He does redonkulous damage though, so if you whiff, you die, especially if your back is to the wall (which he can do with ease).

- Against CD mix-up, jump back_BD on far_max range, and b+3~SSR on close range.

- FLA WD is a good way to try and get in, but his CH tools hurt, so be careful. WD is better because it's more conservative and you can cancel it into blocking. Not Baek's best matchup, but certainly not his worst. If you stay in, you should be okay (he lacks a really good high crush except for generic down punch).

- Try to get a life lead on Bruce, and mix-up your range and sidesteps at all times (ie don't rely on b+3 as much). Try to force him to go for the CD mix-up by staying in and out of that range constantly. Good luck, you'll certainly need it.

Tips to deal with MTS
If Bruce goes into MTS on block, for the love of god don't mash. MTS 2 will CH you even if you try to duck jab (D~1 works though, but don't risk it). It is possible to fuzzy duck the high because it comes out so fast compared to his other options.
As for the mid-low, the low can be ignored as chip, and the mid will hurt a lot, especially if your back is against the wall (MTS 3 wallsplats). Stand block, don't mash and ignore the low. It's possible to b+3 but I just wouldn't risk eating the knee (MTS 3).

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Feb 25th, 2014 at 20:15

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
6)
Bryan:
(1)Punishing list:
df+3: CC, CD+3

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:

- Bryan is a monster at range, and at range is where Baek is terrible. So you really want to not stay far away, as tools like b+1, 3+4, qcb+3, qcb+4, qcb+2,4, d+4, and many more will harass you till death.

- Trouble with Bryan is that, unlike Jack, even if you get up close for pressure, Bryan being a normal human (at least size wise if not for story) can side walk Baek's pressure and punish you. Another problem is that Bryan has a 14 frame launcher in Jet Upper, and quite a few of Baek's moves are -14 which limits your movelist a bit. So you want to be careful with your offense up close and not use moves like FLA uf+3, 3 string enders etc unless you are sure that they will hit.

- Bryan's offense without Taunt is underwhelming, but if the Bryan player knows how to use Taunt, he can punish you with guaranteed damage for just standing there. Pretty scary stuff right? Too bad it has terrible range and tracking now, so unless you're terrible or you're playing against Knee, Bryan shouldn't really hit you with Taunt in the open.



Chreddy/Tiger:
(1)Punishing list:
f+4,3+4: CC, CD+3
b+1,4: SSR the second hit, or if you're lazy, b+1 will step and auto B! right away (credit to Mr Taliban)

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on May 1st, 2014 at 10:34

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
7)
Craig:
(1)Punishing list:
df+1: 4,3,3~f

(2)General Playstyle:
Oki monster

(3)Matchup discussion:
- Craig db+2. The newest addition to his moveset and a pain to deal with. It's basically a Bruce b+2, in the sense that it's safe (YES IT'S SAFE), KND on NH, combo on CH and great range. It's faster than Bruce b+2 at i16, but like Bruce b+2 it doesn't track at all and can be walked both ways. Familiarise yourself with its range.

- Craig 2,1 and 2,d+1+2 is option selectable but it's hard as balls - a timed qcb will duck the high and block the mid.

- Craig is huge like Jinpachi - while open field combos are easier, wall TA combos don't work the same way on them because their big legs hit the floor before everyone else's. Baek 2,3 FLA f+3>d+4,4>4 doesn't work; you have to omit the 2,3.

- Craig is easy to crush. His jabs are very high hitting, and a few of his mids are crushable with Baek too.

- Learn to break grabs. If Craig hits you with a grab, most of the good ones leave you in a terrible position.

- Be up close and careful SWR - don't b+3 because Craig df+1 will usually hit you always.



Dr Boskonovitch:
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Dec 25th, 2013 at 11:00

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#11 “Quote” Edit Post
8)
Devil Jin:
(1)Punishing list:
f+3+4:
u+4: CD+3
u+4~U: UF+4 (the delayed hopkick which doesn't actually launch; floats him out of it)
WGF: 2,2

(2)General Playstyle:
Punishing

(3)Matchup discussion:



Feng:
(1)Punishing list:
1,2,2: 4,3,3~f
1,2,2~b: 1,2,3,4,3 (BT juggle; if they do not know how to get out of it this is an option, else just go with 1,2,3~f into mixup)
2,4: 4,3,3~f
2,4,1: 4,3,3~f
2,4,1~b: 1,2,3,4,3
2~1,1: 4,3,3~f
f+3,4: df+2

(2)General Playstyle:
Too good to be played in any way

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 10:40

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
9)
Laws:
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:



Ganryu:
(1)Punishing list:
f+3+4: 4,3,3~f
df+1+2,1: df+2
b+1+2: 4,3,3~f

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 10:41

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#13 “Quote” Edit Post
10)
Heihachi:
(1)Punishing list:
1,1,2: df+2
TGF: df+2

(2)General Playstyle:
Punishing

(3)Matchup discussion:



Hwoarang
(1)Punishing list:
b+3: df+2

(2)General Playstyle:
Advanced mixups and mindgames

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 10:42

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
11)
Jacks:
(1)Punishing list:
1,1: WS 4,4,3~f
df+3+4: df+2

(2)General Playstyle:
Mid range keepout

(3)Matchup discussion:



Jaycee:
(1)Punishing list:
1,1,1: df+2
1,2,1,1: WS 2,1

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 10:43

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#15 “Quote” Edit Post
12)
Jin Kazama:
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:
Poking. Lots of it. Oh yeah and punishing too. And did I mention poking?

(3)Matchup discussion:
To beat Jin, stay right outside of the range of his ff+2 and EWHF (just frame version of his CD+2 - known as WHF). From there, you have no lows to fear, unless he tries to dash into stuff, which you can stuff yourself with use of magic 4 and df+4,4. At that range, mix up backdash with dashing in (for your own offense).



Jinpachi Mishima:
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 10:56

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
13)
Jun Kazama/Unknown:
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:



Kazuya Mishima:
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 10:54

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#17 “Quote” Edit Post
14)
King:
(1)Punishing list:
1+2: 1,2,3,4,3
1+2,1: 4,3,3~f
f+2,2,2: FC d+1
df+1,2 (no delay): 2,2
df+4: WS 4,4,3~f
df+4,3,4: df+2 (NOTE: if you block the df+4 and stay ducking for the high you can WS 2,1)
d+1,n,2: 2,2
d+1+2: b+4
d+3+4(,4,4,4): CC, CD+3; uf+4
d+3+4(,4,4,4),2: df+2
db+3: WS 2,1
b+1,2: 4,3,3~f
b+3: 2,2 (only if your back is to the wall)
b+4 (shallow hit): 1,2,3,4,3 (not if at absolute max range)
uf+4: 4,3,3~f
ff+4: f+1+2,4
ff,n,2: WS 2,1
WS 2,2: 4,3,3~f
WS 1+2: 1,1 (sometimes it's -9, sometimes -10, so I would just go for 1,1 if you don't want to risk eating a b+1,2 from him for getting 2,2 blocked)
FC df+2: 1+2,4
BT 3: df+2, b+4 (from far away)
3+4,df+4: b+4
CD+1+2: WS 4,4,3~F

(2)General Playstyle:
Poking, throws

(3)Matchup discussion:
- I would suggest learning to break GS(f,hcf+1)/iSW(f,f,f+2+4) by seeing the animation of the grab rather than seeing the hands; other than that you can rely on the hands.

- DON'T duck, especially if you are proficient in breaking those throws. Hopkick hurts.

- When King's back is to the wall, breaking GS is extra important, as well as breaking u+1+2~b (GS when King's back is to the wall is, on most occasions, GGs; u+1+2~b gives a W! when King's back is to the wall which is also GGs in most situations).

- If King player loves to grab, CH tools kinda become useless (throws do not CH).

- df+2,1 should be ducked. It's NCc, and duckable ON HIT as well as block. It's a bit fast, so you need to be on the ball to duck it every time.

- d+1,n,2 isn't as good as AK's d+1,n,4 (it creates a bit of space unlike AK's).

- b+1,2 hurts a lot on whiff. b+3 hurts bad if your back is to the wall. SS hopkick also hurts bad. Also, FC
df+2 is a great whiff punisher, but it comes from crouch. Oldschool King players do b,b,DB and look for a whiff. d+1 into grabs/FC df+2 is a really scary mix-up. What I mean is don't whiff.

- Air iSW oki is very, very nasty. If you get up straight after it, you get floated into a full combo all over again. If you stay down or side roll you eat ground throw. At a basic level, to avoid the oki, a delayed get up will get around everything, but then they can delay their float or use an ali kick for 'guaranteed' damage.



Kuma/Panda
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Dec 12th, 2013 at 21:33

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
15)
Kunimitsu:
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:



Lars:
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:
b+3 > Lars.

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 10:57

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
16)
Lee Chaolan/Violet:
(1)Punishing list:
Violet f+3:3:3: df+2; b+4 (from far)

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:
SW > Lee.



Lei Wulong:
(1)Punishing list:

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:

Last edited by Budding Fighter on Sep 23rd, 2013 at 10:57

Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla
Budding Fighter
^ Thanks AZYG4LYFE!
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1606
From: New Zealand
#20 “Quote” Edit Post
17)
Leo:
(1)Punishing list:
2,2: df+2
ff+2: 2,2 (only from close range)
df+2: 4,3,3~f
df+2+3: WS 4,4,3~f
d+4: WS 4,4,3~f
db+4: CC, CD+3
db+4,1: df+2
db+1+2,1: 4,3,3~f
uf+1,2: 1+2,4
uf+2: 4,3,3~f
uf+4: 4,3,3~f

(2)General Playstyle:
Punishing, pokes

(3)Matchup discussion:
Learn the range of df+2 and try to stay away from it, especially if you're looking to get in via FLA WD (df+2 tracks really well but can be SWR; b+3'd)



Lili/Sebastian:
(1)Punishing list:
d+3+4: CD+3

(2)General Playstyle:

(3)Matchup discussion:
Signature St. George loves my attitude! ("You know too much." - azL) Everything will remain at 50% of its ideal size.
"Here son do a slight dash after ff4,3 into 4,3,4 when they're flying through the air and those Nina players will stop teasing your execution at school." - Skeering
"If Baek gets your back you basically die." - Bronson
"At the bottom of the tier list, it's hard to hear the bitching from the top." - raybonekilla

 All times are GMT. The time now is 07:12

Page Splits 12>
Moderator Tools
Forum Jump