Help with Michelle

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Mr. Taxi
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Joined: Feb 2012
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From: USA Virginia
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#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Picked up Michelle as a partner for my Anna, because they have pretty good juggle(and overall) team synergy.

However, I'm pretty much just winging it with Michelle. I got by with BR Julia as a sub, but I never really took the time to understand her fundamentals. So I want to know what is the ideal way that I should be playing her. I'm pretty aggressive, but is Michelle really suited for that?

What moves should I be using? and how should I be using them? stuff like that

I'm pretty much just getting by through hopkicks, 4~(2),1 mad axes, ff+1 and FC mixups, along with whiff punishing with ff+3 dash d+1+2 butthat really isn't cutting it.

So I guess what I'm really asking for, is like, a guide or a general how to play Michelle the proper way type of thing.
Signature "oh yeh, what the fuck is technically? technically u won? techinically, you are the world best. just go to korea then technically destroy every shitty korean players. you are technically the best." - SeGi Hong

""He's really mean when you get to know him and has nothing going on in his life except Tekken"" - Cuddle Core

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Yannick
Kyu
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3
From: United States
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm certainly no professional, but I want to drop a small reply; there's not so much traffic here lately.

I, too, was just getting into Julia as another character I wanted to play just a month or two before the end of BR and I spent more time exploring her moves rather than how to play her. I've been really trying to bone up on a solid Michelle playstyle since resources are either scarce or sometimes outdated. Hopefully I can shed some light on some things with what little I know. Full disclosure, I'm not very versed in Michelle's frame data, so please excuse some suppositions.

Michelle seems not so much aggressive, but more of a conditioning character. She seems to have only a few decent defensive tools while having good range and pretty decent strings. I feel she's a conditioning character because her offense seems to be based around dem bowz (f, f+1) and the CES express (d, d/f+1 > 3_4). Both moves are pretty quick, hit mid and seem pretty safe. The idea seems to be to use her great mids to get in safely while forcing opponents to stand. From here, Michelle gets access to some great lows and the true guessing game begins as long as you can convince your opponent to not try to sidewalk or press too many buttons.

Mad Axes being so bufferable helps put an edge on your anti-standing game while her FC and WS tactics (FC d/f+2_WS 1_WS 2) round out your anti-crouch game while you're in the opponent's face. From a range, Michelle can opt for elbows if she's trying to get back in or b+4 to convince the opponent to stay where they are. 4~(2), 1_d+1+2_WR 1_f+3~1 all seem to be great ranged choices that put your opponent in a spot where you can choose to go in while they're down or gamble on a ranged game to keep them out.

Michelle gets really spicy when she starts Wind Rolling everywhere and I think this might be where she wants to eventually train her opponent to go. If she can successfully scare them into not pushing buttons, she is free to then press mostly whatever she likes. Her Wind Roll (or CES) and sidestep game are great for when the opponent is nervous and starts trying to mash out where you seem vulnerable. I am loving her CH game and she seems to have great confirms off of her off-axis launchers. SS 3+4_SS 1_SS > d/f+2, 1_CES 1 all appear to be her "press buttons if you dare" moves to punish mash, but they're all pretty vulnerable.

Outside of that, Michelle has a very interesting wall oki and wallsplat game that I'm still exploring. Her setups here seem really retarded and I'm looking forward to see whatever cheapness she can exploit in this area of her game. Her damage potential here is huge and it seems that as long as you play smart with your move selection, the onus is on your opponent to know when to step properly. As a matter of fact, that's the one weakness I'm seeing in Michelle's game. She doesn't seem very defensive, so it's understandable that her defensive tools aren't amazing. She seems very easy to sidewalk and outside of a few moves that she homes with, I'm having difficulty stopping the stepping.

This was probably way too much from someone who knows as little as I do, but I hope this made sense. Even if some (or most) of it is wrong, I'm hoping some enterprising Julia/Michelle players will stop by and drop some sweet knowledge on us.
IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3031
From: Canada
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
@Taxi man

Ah you've been watching 200 Won's matches!

No joke, that insane 50/50/method he applies does actually work but you need solid yomi for that to be applicable at higher levels or you get blown up after a few bad guesses - a bit like how he ends up losing after a while. But, I love his style.

The thing to bear in mind with Changs is that they don't really get decent frames on hit, or block that the rest of the cast enjoys without some element of risk or bad recovery, ie. Lee, Williams, A.King, Laws all have an i13 generic df1 that's +8~9 on hit for solid lockdown and -1 on block for a decent 'unsafe' mixup.

Elbow and shotgun both come out at i12, or a little slower depending on how long you drag out the elbow and are quite linear. Elbow is +4 on hit, - 2 on block and shotgun 0 on hit -6~-2 on block so your opponent has to be conditioned to freeze after. Spin is safe again and +3 after shotgun connects so you can just shotgun into empty spin then start doing MA or shotgun, 2 once your opp starts pushing buttons.

Again, Unlike William's sisters, Changs also lack a quick + on hit low. db3 tech crouches/high crushes really well at i16, -6 on hit and -16 on block so you lose momentum by using it and d3 is an excellent low poke at i13, -1 on hit, -12 on block and +4 on ch. No crush properties though like Bryan's d4. b3 is slow but crushes really well and should be used to track and ch steppers who can't react to it. Note b3 goes under Bryan's orbital heel.

Spacing and HC 4~2,1 is extremely important. Note the pattern that is forming here. You won't get strong +frames so easily with Changs so getting in and out with elbows and shotgun so you can 4~2,1 or whiff punish with ff3 is essential.

Throws are a major part of playing Changs, in this area Michelle is the better Chang as MA and all her old throws retain their old oki setups where as Julia has lost them. Even if your opp can break MA, they will still end up ducking that and now Michelle's new isw (which also has the post MA 4~2,1_ff3_ff1 oki) because of the pressure that they put players under - i10 45-40 dmg throws respectively ftw. Treat them like lows.

Michelle's CES is still better than Julia's new FWR roll too as she has a +3 on hit low out of it with 3,4 and a w! splat with CES 2. Both CES and FWR are linear and can RC. FWR lacks a low and a mid w! splat option. I seem to get floated more out of FWR than CES too and I hardly use either. CES still has crap tech jump/low crush frames. Her i12 punisher 2~b~1+2 always gives a w! splat to her back unlike Julia's too.

That and you always have the fall back, day one tactic of run up FC bow & arrow kicks_ws4_ws3_uf4,3_ws1~5_throw!

It is worth noting that f3~1 is a great range 4~5 whiff punisher, something Julia only has now paired with her mum or another Gung-Fu character. Abuse it if your opp likes to whiff.

As fast as Changs are, being patient with them more so than most of the cast is the key to winning. Their damage output is lower than in T6 but their mixup and pressure game is probably stronger with isw.

Oh and the 135% scaling buff means that landing iwr1, dash d1+2 does ridiculous damage. Note the wr mixup of isw_iwr1 is risky in that both options give either an i10 isw, +7 on block or big damage - or can be broken/ducked which is where the '200 Won' approach comes in with an iwrhopkick mixup.

No (cancellable) taunt is Michelle's biggest weakness...

Other than that, she seems to be the stronger Chang at the moment - well she IS Julia's mum!



Hope that helped and loved your podcast.

Last edited by IRON LOBSTER on Sep 18th, 2012 at 17:44

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bob in der bahn
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1922
From: Austria
PSN: bob_at
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
i just tested some frames with michelle

her d,df1 spin is safe on block and +2(edit: lol damn could have been +3 actually.. i did not take notes..but definately +) on hit
f3,4 is +3 on hit

Last edited by bob in der bahn on Sep 18th, 2012 at 11:46

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IRON LOBSTER
Orlando BOOM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3031
From: Canada
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
WOOO!

Thanks Bob, I hadn't got round to checking those so was still going on the arcade build.

Editing the above.

Has anyone found any tag throws with Michelle yet other than with Julia?

Last edited by IRON LOBSTER on Sep 18th, 2012 at 11:50

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PendaS
Iron Fist God
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1601
From: Canada
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
This thread is very helpful

Who is stronger overall, Michelle or Jaycee?
Mr. Taxi
GGPOGFYKTHX"BI"
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1161
From: USA Virginia
PSN: Mr-Taxi-
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
This actually does help quite a bit. ^_^ thanks lots. I'll try to work this information into my game.
Signature "oh yeh, what the fuck is technically? technically u won? techinically, you are the world best. just go to korea then technically destroy every shitty korean players. you are technically the best." - SeGi Hong

""He's really mean when you get to know him and has nothing going on in his life except Tekken"" - Cuddle Core

My Anna Oki Video
AlastorTGN
1st Dan
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 12
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
So the best gameplan for Michelle is to use her fast moves to get in, like the CES Express or the Elbow? Unless I'm looking at the frame data wrong, the Elbow and Shotgun both come out at the same speed but the elbow has less range, why would I use the Elbow in this case?

What are her best pokes exactly? Is the shotgun a bad move to close in so suddenly?
bob in der bahn
Iron Fist God
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1922
From: Austria
PSN: bob_at
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
shotgun is actually faster than elbow..it's only 12f with block buffer...
but you can make it track better than shotgun because you can delay and realign it
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Vandy2
Expert
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 138
PSN: VandyKiT
#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by AlastorTGN
Unless I'm looking at the frame data wrong, the Elbow and Shotgun both come out at the same speed but the elbow has less range, why would I use the Elbow in this case?


Elbow is better on both block and hit.

Shotgun and elbow are your two main advancing mid moves to get in on an opponent safely while in the open. Which one you choose to use more will be dependent on your personal style. They each have their advantages and disadvantages.
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