Ganryu T6:BR > TTT2 changes

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sandilord
Sambo & Senile
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1893
From: Netherlands
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#81 “Quote” Edit Post
Yes they will I think 1 and ff1+2 are his best moves.
Do you know the frame advantage uf2 gives? Might be worth our while to keep up the pressure. I'd like the knockdown back as well though. Yeah, it becoming a NC is nothing.
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-oFniR-
Kyu
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#82 “Quote” Edit Post
Excuse me, I have some questions to ask about the details of Ganryu's b+2;1

1. Details for the frame please?

2. If your opponent keep spamming b+2;1 how would you counter it? Back in yesterday I'm having trouble of Ganryu's mixup. He does b+2;1 then goes to df+1_db+4 and then spamming b+2;1 again. Is it side steppable?

3. Mid Mid or High High?

Thanks
Signature Success is when Preparation (95%) meets Opportunity (5%).
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sandilord
Sambo & Senile
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From: Netherlands
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#83 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by -oFniR-
Excuse me, I have some questions to ask about the details of Ganryu's b+2;1

1. Details for the frame please?

2. If your opponent keep spamming b+2;1 how would you counter it? Back in yesterday I'm having trouble of Ganryu's mixup. He does b+2;1 then goes to df+1_db+4 and then spamming b+2;1 again. Is it side steppable?

3. Mid Mid or High High?

Thanks

1. 15 frames startup. b21 is safe (-5 or something, pretty good). If they stop after the first hit you can punish, maybe even launch?
2. It's a bitch fighting like that. you can ssr the second hit. What the other ganny can do is delay the second hit to prevent you from sidestepping but if he does you can interrupt (not entirely sure about that though). If you play Drag don't forget you can reverse both hits or parry with b3+4.
3. mid mid.

Good luck.
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-oFniR-
Kyu
Joined: Apr 2012
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From: Indonesia
#84 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by sandilord
1. 15 frames startup. b21 is safe (-5 or something, pretty good). If they stop after the first hit you can punish, maybe even launch?
2. It's a bitch fighting like that. you can ssr the second hit. What the other ganny can do is delay the second hit to prevent you from sidestepping but if he does you can interrupt (not entirely sure about that though). If you play Drag don't forget you can reverse both hits or parry with b3+4.
3. mid mid.

Good luck.


Oh thanks for the info dude. I'll try it next time
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forest16
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#85 “Quote” Edit Post
Did Ganryu get Bob's CD+4,1+2??
amphreded
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From: Thailand
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#86 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by forest16
Did Ganryu get Bob's CD+4,1+2??


Not that I recall. His u/f+2,1+2 the second hit is similar to the second hit of Bob's cd+4,1+2 though. Maybe you're thinking of that?

Ganny's forum is really dead. Am I the only TZ member who's playing him?
sandilord
Sambo & Senile
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#87 “Quote” Edit Post
I am. This will become more alive when TTT2 hits consoles. At least by me.
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amphreded
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#88 “Quote” Edit Post
Nice. Can I ask you a few questions?

1) ff+2 - what's the frame on block & on regular hit? Also how well does it track? In what situation can you utilize it?
2) after punch parry~d+1+2 in their back, f+3+4 is not guaranteed any longer. What are his options? I duck afterward looking for whiff to use fc,d/f+2 to whiff punish, and sometimes I use ff+3+4 in case they tag out of random duck, then ff+1+2 if they try to retaliate, but is there sometimes guaranteed? f+2?
3) After CH f+2, what are the options? I use ff+3, dash d/f+3, dash 1+2, anything else?
4) Do you use d/b+1+2~2 and d/b+1+2~1+2 at all? In what situation I can utilize them?
5) f+2~1 clap. How much advantage you have on block? On CH it guarantees 1,2, or does it guarantee sometimes stronger?
6) When Ganny's back is against the wall, punch parry, d+1+2 push opponent into wall splat. What's the best option after? Currently I use him with Yoshi can I do punch parry~d+1+2, 1+2+3 TA! Yos 3~4 Ganny 2,1,2 and it already is good, but in case my Yoshi has a lot of red life and I don't want to lose it, what's Ganny best option without doing tag combo?

Sorry this turned out to be more questions than I originally thought. Hope you can answer some.
sandilord
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#89 “Quote” Edit Post
Reading back my post I see I was unclear. I don't have acces to the game yet and have to wait for it to be released on console. This also means I won't be able to answer some of your questions but I might be able to answer some others:
1. That's what I've been asking since we know it only throwshifts on CH. There's speculation about it being safe but there's no confirmation yet.
2. From what I've heard and seen, nothing is guaranteed anymore (which is stupid).
3. Sry, don't know.
4.I would say no.
5. I think f2~1 frames are the same as in T6 which means +4 on block and +12 on hit. So yes, 12 is the best afterwards or b1+2 at the wall for a splat.
6. assrape into wallsplat gives ff, ws1+2,1+2 for a BT B!. In T6 the best followup was d1 and mixups from there.
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amphreded
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#90 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey thanks sandilord. Didn't know assrape wallsplat gives ws+1+2,1+2. That will be an immediate upgrade to my game. I'll test out frame of ff+2 next time I go to the arcade. Sad about no.2 though...
sandilord
Sambo & Senile
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#91 “Quote” Edit Post
Sure, no problem. Thx for testing!
COuld you also try to find out how many +frames df2 on hit gives?
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FlyMikey
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#92 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by amphreded

4) Do you use d/b+1+2~2 and d/b+1+2~1+2 at all? In what situation I can utilize them?
5) f+2~1 clap. How much advantage you have on block? On CH it guarantees 1,2, or does it guarantee sometimes stronger?


Alot of your questions were about frames and properties of TTT2 and I don't know those or some of the changes.

4.) I use d/b+1+2 extensions a little because sometimes I end my early B! combos with unblockables on people that like to get straight up,and not sideroll or backroll after certain shit. So then people may see the stance in open ground and think unblockable and then try to step or hit you out of it. But d/b+1+2~2 launcher is good at stopping mashouts and the d/b+1+2~1+2 grab tracks. Even more than that, regular 1+2 should be a frequently used move. It's a great move actually and covers many bases. From that you can cancel into d/b+1+2 stance and get same options. But this is better because you're going into the extensions after 1+2 on hit, block, or at the end of combos where it spikes down.

Ganny has better, stronger, more legit mixups but this is just something to keep in mind. Again, I actually do use those from time to time. And especially in TTT2 now that f,f+2 only gives grabs on CH. This'll make me find ways to use the d/b+1+2~1+2 grab even more. But it'll take some conditioning because all of that can be shut down easy and I'd rather do any of it after 1+2 rather than a naked d/b+1+2 except after a knockdown.

5.) f+2~1 clap on hit gives you 12f. So 1,2 or headbutt for less dmg, but a knockdown. CH seems to be the same.


Originally posted by sandilord

6. assrape into wallsplat gives ff, ws1+2,1+2 for a BT B!. In T6 the best followup was d1 and mixups from there.
.

6. I believe f,f+4 is the strongest you can get from that BT B!, especially on wall. Most BT B! in open ground only give you f,f+4 as most dmg or if you B! early then you can get dash b+2, 1, 2.
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amphreded
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#93 “Quote” Edit Post
@sandilord
Do you mean u/f+2? d/f+2 launches on hit. I can test that no prob.

@FlyMikey
Thanks for the reply. I admit I only tried to use nake d/b+1+2 mixup and never really find any good setup with it. Whenever I do 1+2, I rarely go into the unblockable since I'm afraid I'll lose damage if the 1+2 happens to CH. On that note, can you CH confirm 1+2? For example, if you CH with 1+2, go to juggle, if you don't CH with 1+2, go to unblockable?
Also, wouldn't hcf+2 yields better damage than ff+4 after punch parry wall splat bound?

Some more questions:

7) How many frames is f+3+4 to execute? What's the frame on block? Any specific moves I should use f+3+4 to punish? For example, Asuka's b+3.

8) hcf+2, how punishable is this move? Where to use it? In T6 it gives you the most damage after B! but now with tag combo and d/f+4,1,2 I haven't used this at all. I sometimes did it on accident and it seems to be a quick high crush and does atrocious damage whenever it hits. Could it be used as a move input immediately after raw tagging? Sometimes when I expect enemy to launch me after tagging in Ganny with high moves (i.e. mishima), I do hcf+1 to get a big launch. But hcf+1 is launch punishable (though not by everyone) so maybe hcf+2 is a better choice in such case? (f+2, sit jab and punch parry are all good options here but not as rewarding)

9) Any specifics oki after his throws? 1+3, 2+4, ff+2+3, ff+1+4?
FlyMikey
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#94 “Quote” Edit Post
Nah it's no confirm for 1+2->d/b+1+2 stuff. You have to commit to it.

Does hcf+2 really hit? I know it doesn't open ground BT B!, but I'm also thinking that even on wall, you'd be just outside of range for hcf+2 to connect. Different from hitting the tip of the feet regular post B!. You'd at the very least have to deep dash IMMEDIATELY after recovering from assrape W!. Then iWS+1+2, 1+2. This is if ender is even possible. I wouldn't risk it.

Maybe if he had a crouch dash lol.
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amphreded
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#95 “Quote” Edit Post
Too bad you can't confirm 1+2,d/b+1+2. That would make 1+2 a whole lot more useful.

I'm actually not sure about hcf+2 hitting after BT wall splat iws+1+2,1+2. I just know it works in normal situation. I'm hitting the arcade today so I can recheck that along with other things (if I remember to).

Ganny having a wave dash would be ace.
sandilord
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#96 “Quote” Edit Post
Amphreded: I did mean to type uf2. Phone auto correct must've 'helped me'.

On BT ws1+2,1+2 B!: I don't think hcf2 hits either. I know ff4 does and while it's more damaging than d1, it's oki is far worse.

My take on the ~1+2 stuff: I sometimes use it for fun (actually found out not so long ago in t6 that you can do SIT~d~f~1+2) but in serious play I'd say keep it basic. And this comes from someone who always tries to make it look flashy :-)
It's the same with SIT options. I use them quite frequently and catch a lot of players with the mixups. Against better players I Found it to he useless though...

Rounding up post now, posting on my phone again. I'll answer your oki Q later.
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sandilord
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#97 “Quote” Edit Post
Ok, on my laptop now

On f3+4 as punisher: it's i23 (in BR) so it's not usable as punisher. (Asuka ws3 is -20) f3+4 is -13 from memory.
hcf2 is safe btw. Something like -10/-11 but with pushback.

His throw oki:
ff2+3
Great oki. df1 can pick up for a juggle and is hitconfirmable (pretty tight window) as can df1+2. d1, ff3, df3 or df2+3 if they lay still or quickstand. If you know they'll get up attack (why the hell would anyone?) just df2. I think ff3 is one of the best options.

2+4
Pretty much the same as ff2+3 but the positioning is a little less good.

ff1+4
puts you at (not entirely sure) +5 in their face so do as you please. I usually do df2, another throw or df3/df2+3.

1+3
I looked into this a little more just now. What I've done so far is run up if they backroll or f3+4 and stuff like dash df3_df2+3 or d4 if they stay down.
Checked in practice and d21 hits in their back on backroll, toward roll or techroll either way. You could end the string fully on BT but I found if you have a opponent who keeps backrolling you can do1+3, (opp backroll) d21, (opp backroll) ws1+2 for a BT launch into df1~4~1, 212 B!
d2 hits grounded as well.
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Chamberjin
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#98 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by sandilord

1+3
I looked into this a little more just now. What I've done so far is run up if they backroll or f3+4 and stuff like dash df3_df2+3 or d4 if they stay down.
Checked in practice and d21 hits in their back on backroll, toward roll or techroll either way. You could end the string fully on BT but I found if you have a opponent who keeps backrolling you can do1+3, (opp backroll) d21, (opp backroll) ws1+2 for a BT launch into df1~4~1, 212 B!
d2 hits grounded as well.


Can you still dash forward and get his d+1+2 after 1+3 throw?
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amphreded
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#99 “Quote” Edit Post
Sorry for the late reply. I went to arcade several times but just tested things out today.

ff+2 on block is safe, but negative on block.
u/f+2 on hit is plus. I didn't test how much but Ganny b+1+2 will beat jabs.
Forgot to test whether hcf+2 works on BT wall. Next time will do.

Other thing of interest: d/f+2 to ff+1+2~5 works. Timing is strict but I can do things like d/f+2, ff+1+2~5 Yoshi d+2,2,d+1 B! If you input ff+1+2 a little late, opponent can tech followup. Probably will work with a lot of tag partners (Nina 1+4, Jun b+2,1, Bruce 3,2~f, etc). Didn't test whether d/f+2 on max range hit to ff+1+2~5 will work good or not. If yes, then it will be really good.

@Sandilord
Thanks for the throw oki write-up. ff+2+3 wakes is nice.

Last edited by amphreded on Jun 13th, 2012 at 19:57

aviax
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#100 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by amphreded

Other thing of interest: d/f+2 to ff+1+2~5 works. Timing is strict but I can do things like d/f+2, ff+1+2~5 Yoshi d+2,2,d+1 B! If you input ff+1+2 a little late, opponent can tech followup. Probably will work with a lot of tag partners (Nina 1+4, Jun b+2,1, Bruce 3,2~f, etc). Didn't test whether d/f+2 on max range hit to ff+1+2~5 will work good or not. If yes, then it will be really good.



I was going to point that out, but you already have, so I'll just add to it by noting a couple of things:

- Spacing is also a bit strict, at starting distance or further, f,f+1+2 doesn't have enough reach after the upper.
- This jerry-rigged TC works better if your partner has good scoop-up juggle moves. A great example would be Bruce with his d+3,4... but Jack can also come in and easily continue with b+3,2, f,f+1...
- Despite the fact that the actual tag launcher doesn't come until the second hit, apparently this is fully counted as a tag juggle - no red bar. I would have thought that since the d/f+2 isn't by itself a tag launcher, that it would leave just a bit of red, but it doesn't.
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