Yes you are right. Infact, f+222 B! ISW is pretty easy.... Most of the time I practice on Xiayou and keep whiffing it over 90% of the time. Whiffing it so many times made me look for GS as an alternative. Yesterday, I landed FC d/f+1, d+1, f+1, f+222 B! ISW very consistently on Steve. Also CH b+1, f+2, 2, f+222B! ISW for 81dmg is easy too.

Isw is the best ender for king,trust me, ak's air gs puts the opponent in a odd knockdown,thus his is preferred,but king knocks them straight and its 30 damage. 30! To any iwr ender there is only one simple trick. you can buffer the first forward in the bound. So, you have to start move a little before you think you can,just buffer the first f in the recovery of the bound. f+2,2,2 is the easiest to buffer in. And second make sure the third f comes out compact enough. if you let him glide forward even a bit in the dash you do before pressing the third forward it won't connect. so the best to put it is let all three forwards come out uniform,two of them should not be faster than the anyone. If you get this you will find it easy and you will even realize that its slower than you think! Just get the timing of buffering the first forward and keep all of them uniform. If you still don't get it we are meeting in chandigarh in two days days anyways,i will explain it then! And its pretty easy!

need help playing offense against king... i'm having a hard time beating turtles with good throw breaking ability . can somebody show me a few throw buffers/mixups or safe lows i can use? aside from his jab uppercut buffer to GS.

offense against king really depends on you playing aggressive and using low + mid kick mixups. king players only crouch when they need to. most of the moves do not come from the crouch stance. putting king on defense means you can go for the low or throw. if they break all your throws then go for low mixups. low mid mid or high low mid combos are great against king. turtle players win on a punish so throw out your shorter combos to get them thinking that is all you have and then watch them open up like magic when you use a 4 hit instead of a 3 hit.

the best kick mixup players against king are baek, and lee. I don't see any good howrang players in T6 so I don't know if he is good for kick mixups.

@solderface: thanks for the anti-king tips... and sorry, wrong choice of words on my part.

what i meant to say was: how can i play king against turtles?

my mix-up game (for block and whiff punish) has improved a bit, except when it comes to facing good turtles. especially, when i end up facing lings and bruces who turtle a lot.

so, how can i use king on turtles? do i bait them out for a counter hit? or do i still use the same mix-up game?

@solderface: thanks for the anti-king tips... and sorry, wrong choice of words on my part.

what i meant to say was: how can i play king against turtles?

my mix-up game (for block and whiff punish) has improved a bit, except when it comes to facing good turtles. especially, when i end up facing lings and bruces who turtle a lot.

so, how can i use king on turtles? do i bait them out for a counter hit? or do i still use the same mix-up game?

Hi ShadowKing. I also do face a lot of turtles. Normally, the opponent tends to turtle when he is expecting a grapple (Talking especially about king now). Also the Capoeira pair can be a pain but a few tricks can help our purpose. King has pretty good mix-up when it comes to throw or hit and we can capitalize on turtles pretty well.
Like for eg. during isw (various situation like space between the characters and the king player charging towards the opponent give the opponent a hint that isw is coming. According to your experience you can judge when all do these occurrences happen.) You can use f+3,1+2 or u/f+4 or d/f+1,2 or, d/f+2,1.
Also, certain experienced players expect a grapple after some of the king's hit moves like 1, hcf+1 and they duck. You can punish them by exploiting all the the mid moves that king has got. To be absolutely safe I use f+3,1+2 and d/f+1,2.
Then we have the JGS mixups and cd+1+4_2+3. Which is great on backdashing opponent. You can mix do a mixup of it with cd+4 & ws+4. It is mighty rewarding against ducking opponents.
Well these are just to name a few. King is a master of mind games if played properly. I hope to learn more and share more.
(Remember 1 hopkick & 1 Body blow and it is the end of the game. Best of all they are mids . Use em wisely).

thanks for the advice ALANS. looking at the tournament videos (and from experience), i notice a lot of Kings usually use d+4 as their low poke. i know that most of his lows are unsafe on block/whiff, but i'm not sure how unsafe they really are... how punishable are his lows?

p.s. any tips on how to bait bulldogs for a body blow/hopkick?

CH b+1, SSR f+22, 1, b+2,1+2 B! ISW for 79dmg is good staple from 2P side but is highly inconsistent on the 1Pside

ok shadowking, I understand you want to play as king against a turtled player. that is an easy question to answer. they block, you throw. you are using KING. THE KING OF THROOOOOOWWWWWWSSS!!!!

but seriously. turtle players can also be good punishers and have lots of chances to throw after a block. lots of other characters have throws that leave you grounded or back turned. some of them send you flying across the level to setup a running tackle into another throw. low parry into combo is something you really need for this kind of match.

turtle players
*1*almost always use punishers to launch into combo
*2*a good turtle is a good reader. chances are good they can read your lows for a parry
*3*are more likely to read your attack timing and that can give them an advantage in punch and kick reversals.
*4*has more information on you than you have on them

the solution for these
*1*use safe punches that have -9 frames or less on block. but don't use just highs exclusively.
*2*special mids can be parry'd also but they are probably parry by accident. the animation is way easier to see for parry on a low kick. use a knee, elbow, head, ass(kuma), throw, or ss. don't throw out too many knees cause they can beat it with 10f punches.
*3*this can be a good setup for a throw or a knee. most characters have a knee that launches into a combo
*4*by the middle of the first round, they have enough information for a basic read. just think about what they will do now that they have the read. you can probably get into the mind your opponent and think what you would do in this kind of read. that makes them almost predictable at higher level play. no one will turtle for 60 seconds if they think they have a good read already. try to bait launchers and combos so you can get the easy side throw or back throw with king. you do this with side step or side walk for combos or 10 hit strings. lots of kings side throws set up the next ground throw.

if they get up kick, back dash into unblockable backflip. if they try anything else, you can probably squeeze another ground throw before they roll.

King's Ali Kicks suck. They're high risk, low reward. It's basically a 50/50, that if the opponent guesses right, gets a free launcher. And it's not much damage if they guessed wrong. It's only good online because most online players don't know how to punish.

A single Ali Kick is OK for poking, but again it's pretty high risk and low reward. I use it sometimes as a match ender and that's pretty much it.

@ Solderface

thanks for the notes, it took me a while a while to get the throw mixup working. a good read on the opponent makes a big difference, and pressuring them with throws mixed with pokes and d/b+2 helps a lot.

which reminds me, is d/b+2 safe on block? or is it punishable?


p.s. somebody send me a link for king's okizeme options, i need a refresher course for that...

the best way I play king is to not try to use throws exclusively if I can't setup the distance or they are reversing/ducking everything. I think it is rare for people to reverse a 1+2 throw on the first try so I use that as my main chain throw especially for a 1st round almost guaranteed win. you can also try to throw your crouching opponent but it is risky. some people duck on reaction as a universal throw break (and WS launcher) so getting a crouch throw may not be an option for those people.

my throwgame was more on mixups with his safe mids and pokes: it's either i bait them to duck for a hopkick, have 'em keep blocking for a throw, or poke them until their back is against the wall for his u+1+2 throw (or GS when my back is against the wall). ws+4, db+2, ff+1, and ff~N 1+2 are my primary mids aside from his launchers. safe on block, and the ff+1 tracks!

@ShadowKing!256:
1. "how punishable are his lows?", "d/b+2 safe on block? or is it punishable? "
Although this link was posted in the earlier posts by Iz-GOod. I'm reposting it for convenience.
http://www.tekkenarena.com/forum/vi...=100&t=4654

You can be the judge yourself. I hope it helps.

2. "any tips on how to bait bulldogs for a body blow/hopkick? "
Know your punishers and most of the time you won't find a need for a bait to launch. They'll bait themselves in. That is the mantra for bulldogs (Atleast for me). Switching between defense and offense on the situation you see. 1,2_2,1 ; WS+4 ; b+1,2 ; d/f+2,1 ; d/f+1,2 ; d/f+3 ; b+3(range) etc.

--
Cheers.

thanks man... i tried the frame data from avoiding the puddle.com for reference but i had some trouble understanding how they wrote the frames on block there. this'll just fine.

how good is king's wall game? i know he can't be as good as bryan or bruce, but i don't think namco would forget to give options for the wall aside from u+1+2 and GS.

@ShadowKing!256 : Well I can't tell you more than what you already know. Instead I'll share what I do.
We know that wall game is all about pressure. With crappy lows king sucks. But hold on. He has a pretty good mixup of mids and throws. After I have done my wall combo (whichever it may be as far as king remains standing facing towards the wall) on the opponent I play mid games if the opponent quickstands or rolls over. WS+4 ; d/f,1,2 etc. f,1+4 is a good example which leaves u in a slight frame advantage even on block and a splat on ch! and follow it up with hits whichever I find suitable at that instant. Not to mention his throw mixups. And if you find the need you can tuck in a few lows.
There you have built enough pressure for the opponent to panic.

Cross overs are risky affairs and I can land myself in a wall splat if i miss-time it. So I don't usually do them.

How do you go about during your wall game?

Any suggestions, opinions, options, criticisms from everybody is most welcomed. If we can improve the wall game of king its all worth it.

wall pressure was one of my weaker games for king. but my wall game required patience and turtling as oppose to bryan's bulldogging taunt game.

once my opponent's back is against the wall. i'd mix up king's jabs, pokes and throws to the point that they wouldn't pay attention to king's low dropkick (db+4). decent damage despite having king drop on the. and the wall is the only time i would frequently use db+3, for the same reason i use d/b+4. it decently tracks to king's left and d/b+2 forces the opponent to crouch on block, which makes 1P a suitable position for him since a crouched player can only sidestep in one way.

I find it incredibly hard to face opponents such as Bob, Nina or Bruce. Their fast jabs and pokes force me to turtle most of the time. Kings mids are horrible and are quite slow even d/f+2. d/f+21 gets ducked, and so are my grabs.

How do I attack with King? I am a turtle by nature. Punishing and grabs are a main part of my gameplay. Fast characters lock me down. Grab are totally useless against quick attacks except Giant Swing.

Also what is the frame data on Crouch Grabs?? Are they launch punishable on whiff?? How fast are these?? Hopkicking crouched opponents did not work for me..

king's poking game is only decent at best, so it's best not to use that against character's who can actually out poke him. use whiff punishing in these situations: since nina has short range, bdc to b+3 and b+1 series can force her to play risky. in bob's case, much of his moves have bad tracking, especially d+1! sidestepping/sidewalking will be put to good use, and punish that fatty with 1+2,3. just watch out for his sweeping lows.

as for bruce, making him whiff is the only advice i can give you. his ducking low can mess you up if you don't block it right.