AZYG4LYF, St. George, DC & Murakumo - thank you for the replies. Time to work on my punish game

Well let's say that you somehow launch someone in game with WS+2,3 then you proceed to f+4,3 B! what combos do you get after B! I usually use d/f+3,2,3 because I don't have any ideas yet and it's a safe option.

WS+2,3, f+4,3, B!, ff~b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N+3,4

That's the max solo combo without wall.

On Jinpachi, Marduk, and (?)...
WS+2,3, 1,2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+1:1~f,N, f+4,3, B!, FF, b+4, d+3
(Better if they're solo since they can't escape or retaliate from the d+3)
and...
WS+2,3, 1,2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N_b+1:1~f,N, f+4,3, B!, FF, d/f+3,2,3
(Better if they're teamed since it's guaranteed through the final hit)

Hmmm. Interesting. Well thanks for that. The moment I get to hit the arcade again, I'll definitely go ahead and try that out.

**edit**
On another note. How is Lee's game looking to you games after the changes? Is he still a wait and bait type of dude or can he be played with relentless poking?

So, does this new ws+2,3 break walls or balconies?

How about
ws+23, f+43 B! df+1, b+2~f, b+2~f~b, ws+23

what do you guys look for in a partner? (huh?) hahaha
i currently main lee/law and i feel like i have to give them up. law has f,f+2,1,3 and u/f+3,4 for TAs; the first one is weak as F and the second one only works after 3 hits prior to TA.

both have weak options for red life killing. lee has BK which is hella unsafe, ws2,3 is also unsafe plus it doesn't even give your partner a full combo. mist step 3,4 is alright but the second hit already counts as a hit, so yeah no full combo afterwards.

law has ws2 and U/F+4 which are both -1000 on block. does jack have those taggable launchers which are only around -10 to -13 on block? i just noticed most of you guys dig lee/jack. i wouldnt understand why since ive never really learned jack.

What I actually look for is synergy. That's not necessarily in combos. I am kinda of looking for a character who fills Lee's weaknesses. Rather than two characters that play similarly, I'm looking for two that are very different so that the opponent has a harder time getting into some sort of groove against it.

There's actually not a whole lot I'm tagging off of with Jack.
ff+1+2,5 as a long range whiff punish (leads to Lee d+2, -15 on block and stepped easily, though)
WS+1,5 (leads to Lee 4,u+3)
d/f,d/f+2+4,5 (leads to U/F,N+4)

I'll prolly play around with more teams and synergies once the PS3 release hits. I'm actually excited to play more Kaz/Ogre once I get an HRAP and get better at Kaz movement on stick.

changed my mind on the partner stuff and been thinking about tag synergy ala TTT1
so i now mainly pair lee with mishima's or steve would look to use a lars pair up with lee in the future
just polishing tag assaults as of the moment

i havent tried this stuff so far hope to test these out if i got time and money to spend on playing ( (its freaking expensive)

EWGF lee 4,u+3,b+1,1~f,n,f+4,3 TA EWGF, d/f+3,2,3~5 then wave
also been thinking for the mishima pairup if this is possible
EWGF~5 EWGF 1, any B! move TA, EWGF, then lead EWGF if possible a DDEWGF (sorry for the EWGF off topic i just missed old TTT1 hei EWGF~5 jin EWGF 1+4,2, DDEWGF as a back roll catch )

after a successful BK~5 is it possible for hwoarang to RFF 3~4 i do use the U/F+4, 2,3, LFS d/f+3 B!
or is it possible for DVJ to u/f+1+2, ff+3,1, 2, d/f+1+2 B! ?

what does lee got off from steve's launchers? could steve tag out after a CH b+1 (sorry if this question was already answered i will back track and edit this post asap)

later i would browse other threads for tag assaults with other characters

last question what tag assaults are you guys using from a wall
could hwoarang get a backlash 2,3 then after that what are lee's option?
or how about with steve is it possible for him to f+2,1~b,DCK,db,ws+1,2 or 3,1,1 SF from a wall tag assault?

TY in advance

Steve: b+2, ff+2,5...
Lee: 4,u+3...
Steve: F+3*,1,5...
Lee: b+2~f,N, f+2,1

Steve: [CH]b+1~b, [FLK]F+3*,1,5...
Lee: b+2~f,N...

@sir murakumo
owwwwwwwwwww i wanna see this it would look flashy
steve: b+2,ff+2~5, TA lee 4,u+3, steve DCK EXT,1~5, lee b+2,f,n,f+2,1 can the ender be swapped with ws+2,3 for another tag off?

Steve [ch]b+1~b, FLK dck ext 1~5, lee b+2~f,n
and i wonder would this flip the enemy on normal juggling position or is it face towards position?

many thanks again for the info

The first juggle you're hitting them from the back.

The juggle from CH b+1 you're hitting them from the front.

I see. i never thought of synergy, maybe because i dont know every specific weakness lee has. i guess im just being biased because of all these mishimas im battling XD i mean, ewgf tagging to another mishima almost always leads to half life being completely gone. now im craving for damage, tempted to use that lee/drag/lars team or kazuya for cd3 infinite wall carry XD.

but thanks for your input. made me put a lot more things into consideration. might as well start jacking or other characters that fill lee's weakness. jack's FC game seems hella strong, fc d/b+1 ftw haha. but that's all i know. learning here in the philippines is hard for me since one game's hella pricey.

Here's the thing... lee takes time to open up turtles. Steve is the same way, IMO--Steve vs. a turtle is a very slow game. It might actually be a good choice to use a character than can take some chances for big damage if needed. Lee is still essentially a poke and CH character. If they take the lead, they may start turtling away. Considering how many time ups there are in this game, it may be a good idea to have a character that can take some chances near the end of a round for some big damage if you read them correctly. This will work better if you need to chase them on life and time is running low.

That's the only issue I see with Steve/Lee. They're both poke/CH characters. It can be really hard to chase down a good turtle using this team, if they take a lead early. Kind of reminds me of TTT1 Changs and poke -> lead -> run -> keepout. I actually really wish Lee had some better tag launchers.

With Lee and the CH ability, if you take the lead, you keep him in and force them to come to you. If you're behind and Lee's getting low on life and time, you have a character that can try and read and take a few risks vs. turtles to get back in the game.

Characters that come to mind include, among others, D.Jin and Kaz, maybe Paul. Jack doesn't seem horrible if you're willing to run straight in and force mixups.

George has a lot more Jack experience than me, but I try to use whiff punishes (d/f+2, ff+1+2), ff+1 a lot, u/f+2 for mixups. FC,d/b+1 to mixups, etc.

I feel like Jack's concepts are pretty simple, but basically you need to make them afraid to press a button (for of running into something) so that you can run forward and push other mixups. That is mixed with other continuations for CH or launch, etc. in case they think they'll try to stuff your running forward. I feel that Jack has a much more intimidating game in this manner than Lee. If you get into their head, they'll lose heaps quickly without Jack necessarily needing to take a huge amount of risk. It's good to know when to turtle, too. You'll have to be more patient with him since you can't step and CH as much as Lee.

Jack has better whiff punishes, better offensive mindgames, better throw damage, and better punish range.
Lee has better CH ability, safer pokes from standing, and good HCs, with more juggle range.

Jack assist is good for Lee carry range as well as wall finish, as well as run under juggles when juggling from behind.

I'm not sure I would go so far as to call it the best Lee team, but I like it for its differences, and the ability to use Jack to try and read them and force them to make a choice, potentially letting me battle back if the opponent has taken the lead over my Lee and is turtling up a somewhat.

your jack seems decent from your vids. i wouldnt know since i just started jacking.

yeah jack has all of those whiff punishers, throws, etc. my problem is he kinda bores me at some point while playing. but thats just me though. maybe its because i havent fully discovered everything about him (game plans, strats, move properties and such). last playtime, i kept spamming d/f+2 from range 2 closer XD. ok im just a bad player, but hey, my jack's 4th kyu now with an 8-6 win-loss record haha

what i really want is a long range whiff punisher, and prolly something that can get me 'inside', straight to the enemy. these are stuff that i have trouble doing with lee. sometimes against a turtly opponent, my mindset is either a go-lucky slide, or a forced run up d/f+1. yoshi kinda does the work with his f,f+4 and 3~4 although both are quite risky.

im still not sure on what team to play next. i seriously dont want to go back to law. maybe yoshi for now til console release. or who knows, maybe ill jack a lot more. good day, thanks

Okay, here's my Jack broken down for you.

Spam ff+1. This will get you one of two reactions. People will either start trying to catch you on the way in with quick stuff for a CH (magic 4, Steve b+1, EWGF, King b+1 etc) or they will start blocking it and taking their frame advantage to get in and open up an offence.

If they turtle, start dashing deep into ff+1_FC d/b+1_throw mixups. Enough ff+1 will scare them into attacking you on reaction to your dash so they won't hopkick your FC d/b+1 etc. This mixup is in Jack's favour, you should win.

If they start trying to interrupt your ff+1, stop spamming ff+1 and start doing shallow ff dashes with your fingers over the 1+2 buttons, looking for an ff+1+2~5 whiff punish. Your opponents will often start reacting to your initial dash in order to attack early enough to CH your ff+1, so theoretically you should get ff (opponent 4_b+1_whatever keepout move) 1+2 whiff punish into combo.

When dealing with pressure, use either d+1(2)_d/f+2+4 to interrupt or backdash looking for d/f+2 whiff punish.
Don't spam d/f+2, -14 hurts. 1+2 used to be the go-to move if you weren't sure how they'd react to your frame adv, now it's HH so fuck that shit. u/f+2 or d/f+1.


That's basically my Jack 101. Be patient, fish for pokes not launches.

That has got to be right up there with that guy from the Kuma forums as one of the worst breakdowns of a character I've ever seen on TZ. Really? The 2 options for dealing with ff+1 are block and try to beat it out? Ok. lol It's in Jack's favor? Sure lol. Yo it's no wonder people lose so bad to Jack if they think like this.

Considering the best Jack player in New York State is the CPU, feel free to shut the fuck up.

Funniest thing I've read all day.