f+2,1 seems slightly easier to confirm that 6.0, yes. A lot of moves got a couple extra frames for HC from original TTT2.0.
Zero, as whiff punish, blocking lows (FDFT 3, for example). Like you said, it's a loss. It doesn't affect his full game overall, but at the same time there are some things whose absence seems somewhat tangible.
Here's what I'm using from DD now... WS+4 only if you're worried they're gonna throw something out quickly.
cc, 3 for the HC normally.
Haven't been really using cc, knee anymore. It's -13 now too, which while not horrible gives a few characters painful retaliations. A little risk and combo damage or low risk and 43 dmg or whatever from standing 3--player's call, really.
I tested a bit on the HMS cancel, too. I'm gonna go ahead and write the notation like this:
FC,u+4:5~3 and FC,u/f+4:5~3
So this is a flipkick option select. It actually seems to work pretty well. Most characters' d/f+2, hopkicks, etc. whiffed if tried to be used as a punish. Basically, use the u+4 version from range 0 to 1, and the u/f+4 version from range 1 to 2.
Now, it's not really a just frame, but I'm putting the : notation in just to show there's a timing. If you 5~3 before the kick connects, it will transition to HMS whether it was blocked or it hit. If you hit the 5~3 after the hit, though, it will only HMS transition on block and will instead start a tag combo on hit. Will take a little getting used to, and some characters can still launch you from that range, probably, but it should keep a lot of characters' punishes minimal and allow us a decent amount of whiff punishes to juggle.
So far example...
DD at range 0, FC,u+4:5~3 ... opponent blocks, slight push back + HMS, opponent's hopkicks and d/f+2, etc. whiff
vs.
DD at range 0, FC,u+4:5~3...
Jack: 4, ff+1, B!, fff+4, b+3,2,2 (big chunk of life and red life gone!)
This is nice in that it's a true option select that will always give the tag combo on hit vs. always transitioning to HMS on block. Remember, the 5~3 has to be after the kick connects (whether hit or block)... do it early and you just always get HMS. =[
You can do this with solo Lee, too, but in hitting that at the range that keeps you safe, the best solo combo is kind of annoying and not super duper horribly damaging, and it leaves a chunk of red life. If you ARE going to try and use this as a launch with a bit of safety solo, then...
FC,u+4,3, [HMS]qcb~f+4,3, B!, ff~b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N+3,4
At a range that's somewhat safe on block, that qcb~f+4,3 cancel is the only thing that leads to a full combo. Kinda crappy. Prolly better just to use the knee if solo.
Still DD~ff+3 at range to mix with slide.
Tony, the f+3 will come out every time if you're next the the opponent. Can't range 0 iWR this move like slash kicks and Drag. Aside from myself, every single Lee I've seen played out here gets the f+3 if they're too close. If I'm wrong, I'll send you a birthday cupcake... but the icing will be pink, because that's how Lee rolls I heard. o.O;
@Oren
So far I'm just using
fff+3,4, B!, ff, d/f+1, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, d/f+3,2,3 mainly
also
fff+3,4, B!, ff, d/f+1, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N+3,4
I think another one that works and would be more damage, but with harder execution is...
fff+3,4, B!, ff~SSR~d+2, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, d/f+3,2,3 (might hit as d/f+3,(2),3 sometimes)
Another I should check if the kick recovers fast enough is...
fff+3,4, B!, FF+4, d/f+1, b+1:1~f,N, 1,2~f,N... (there was a d/f+2, b+4, B! combo that went like this in T6)
After fff+(3),4, f+3+4, FC,d/f+4 is guaranteed. If they got bumped trying to wakeup from the FC,d/f+4, then you get a strong DD game (since if they tech off that you slide by fairly safely, even on block--better risk/reward than DD game vs. them standing).
After a balcony break is really depends on the dumber of hits, since momentum continues below. Also if you've bound or not, and if you're solo...
Solo- Your character drops down on their head side, I don't think it's possible to hit them before they hit the ground, so bind prolly doesn't matter.
Post-bind- doesn't really matter if they hit the ground or not since it's an extra bound... hitting them before they hit and bind from the fall will not save another bound.
Pre-bind- they will bind from the fall, but if you hit them in the air, you can use a move to bind in combo. If you let them hit the ground and bind there, though, then you can't.
Partner breaks the balcony (no bound used)--
fresh[ish] break: d+2_2, b+2~f,N carry to wall, wall combo (If it's not the first aerial hit, I think we can still do this off 2 or 1,2~f,N or something... just take momentum into consideration. Saves your bound by hitting them on the way down before they hit the ground... use it in the wall combo, or tell help carry if you've got more momentum going.
Partner breaks (bound used)--
Fresh: They bounce on the floor, d+2, b+2~f,N, b+2~f, d/f+3,2,3, (w)...
Several hits in: d+2, ff+3 or f+2,1 or something
On this one, I think fresh you can get something like:
SSL~d+2, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+2,4,3, (w)... If you still have your B!, that can continue to something like...
fff+3,4,5...
Jack: \o/
Lee: U/F,N+4, d/f+3,2,3 (70% finish)
Lee breaks balcony--
Fresh: 5...
Lee: d+2, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, d/f+3,2,3, (w) ... or whatever.
The opponent bounces of the ground in the situation, which I believe loses us the bind, but you CAN tag Lee back in to pop the opponent upright with d+2 and take them to the wall.
So... balconies are complicated. It depends on solo or team, number of aerial hits (momentum), if a B! has been used already or not, teammate for TA in some cases, etc... it's really variable. I've still got a lot of balcony break stuff to test before I totally understand the system. I think 2 when they're falling pops them upright, for example, but when I was using Ogre 1,2 left them face down, still--I was confused. Need to test more.
i think he meant Violet, who is the oldest of the Baudelaire orphans and whose favorite inventor is Nikola Tesla, discoverer of the violet ray, which was a medical device back in the 20th century.
i think he meant Violet, who is the oldest of the Baudelaire orphans and whose favorite inventor is Nikola Tesla, discoverer of the violet ray, which was a medical device back in the 20th century.
i think he meant Violet, who is the oldest of the Baudelaire orphans and whose favorite inventor is Nikola Tesla, discoverer of the violet ray, which was a medical device back in the 20th century.
i think he meant Violet, who is the oldest of the Baudelaire orphans and whose favorite inventor is Nikola Tesla, discoverer of the violet ray, which was a medical device back in the 20th century.
wow, my joke ended up as a quadruple post. im terribly sorry
I seriously doubt 1,3,3,3 will come back. An i10 (or i8 in Tekken 4) launch punishing move. Lee would be X tier if he had that, regardless of it being justframe or not.
Though it would be funny if he did have it as Violet. That would mean he'd have the i12 3,3 that knocked down on counter hit. Now that would be great.
