Level Up Your Game - SFxT - Raven / Yoshimitsu

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Level Up Your Game
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2558
From: USA California
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
The Level Up Your Game series for Street Fighter x Tekken continues with the ninjas of the series, Raven and Yoshimitsu. Is Yoshimitsu one of the worst characters in the game? Could Raven be one of the best? Its definitely too early to tell but I think we're headed in the right direction.. We're also giving away a MadCatz Tournament Edition FightStick PRO, more details inside
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levelupyourgame.com | LEVEL UP YOUR GAME | Tekken - Throw Break Trainer - by Rip | LUYG APP for iPhone & for Android
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Level Up Your Game
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2558
From: USA California
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Signature DSS~ WHAAAAAA!!! Too buff, too swoll. Phoenix too strong.
JUUUUUUUUNKKKKYAAAAAAAARDDD!!!
levelupyourgame.com | LEVEL UP YOUR GAME | Tekken - Throw Break Trainer - by Rip | LUYG APP for iPhone & for Android
Aozame32
Expert
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 136
From: USA California
PSN: Aozame32
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Poor Yoshimitsu...
forest16
ForestTekkenVideos
Joined: Jan 2009
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Raven looks extremely good, and Yoshimitsu is probably bottom 5 in the game. Great episode as usual!
Aozame32
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 136
From: USA California
PSN: Aozame32
#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, Raven is looking awesome!

And it was really entertaining to watch you guys break the characters down is such an efficient, helpful format. Well, it was entertaining until you got to Yoshimitsu. Then is just became painful.
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DrBhup666
Deity
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 684
From: Norway
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Ok, I'm sorry, but here goes.. I just wanna rant for the last time about this subject.

You make these episodes and tell us about the different SFxT characters is just great! Seriously! The previous episodes were about 40-50 minutes, and you go through two characters per episode. Great job!

This just illustrates the biggest problem with Tekken. Because basically StreetFighter x Tekken is based on SF engine, the characters have about 10-15 moves each and it is possible to learn a character in one day or at least very thoroughly in one weekend.

Back to Tekken. Each characters have 150+ moves and strings with a million properties to remember, a rock-papir-scissor type of gameplay, throws, low parries, random hopkicks, 24 different ways of getting up and frames frames and more frames to memorize.. you could put down a whole month and still not know everything about a character.

Want to learn a new character in Tekken? Put in half a year of playing, reading and studying frames and other properties and memorising strings and practicing the exact frame to flashduck, sidestep or whatver to avoid get hit by an attack... yup, this is Tekken. Too much work before you can have some fun. And I haven't even started on the movement and backdashcancelling...

And people wonder why Tekken is dying and why most people choose to play Streetfighter...

Because you can put in one weekend of work and basically know everything that is to know about a character and then just start playing and having fun! Tekken is not a welcoming game to play for newcomers and people wanting to learn a fighting-game for fun. It's just too complex. I wonder how many new people actually would want to learn and play TTT2.


[/rant]
KPractice
Virtuoso
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 220
From: Canada
PSN: K-Stick-Practice
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
DrBhup: You're right, for us that have been playing since T3, it's easier for us but I can just imagine what it would be for a someone trying out Tekken for the first time. My friends have and they just cannot grasp it's beauty unless they were passionate about the whole engine.

But I think that in any game, once you get the fundamental basics down, and just study or at least be aware of the a characters most effective moves, you should be fine. It comes down to practice and lots of experience with match-ups/characters. It's true there are more than 100 moves per Tekken character but not all are effective; only about 12 usually.

Despite the difficulty of Tekken, lots of people still play it for "Tekken" the most fun/decent/technical 3D fighting game out there, sorry DOA, VF etc but you just don't compare.

SFxTK is SF4 with Tekken characters nothing more. As with all SF games it has small move lists and is easier to access but just like Tekken and no matter how accessible the game is, without knowledge of the fundamentals, you will get blown up.

Another thing is that Namco's business practices are always solid unlike Capcom's shameful shady scamming DLC practices. And when TTT2 drops, I will sleep soundly at night knowing I have paid for a game that is complete and I won't be charged extra for sh!t already on the disc.
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Level Up Your Game
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2558
From: USA California
#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Agree with a lot of what you said, but this part stuck out to me

Originally posted by KPractice
SFxTK is SF4 with Tekken characters nothing more.


Ive been hearing this a lot and while similar its very different. Yes it builds on the core fundamentals of SF4, but it really is more like SF5 to me (competitively). Tag system like Tekken Tag, counter hit juggle starters, air to air counter hits to ground combos, BOUND moves, strings with overhead mixups, much easier cross ups, forward roll for oki etc - its very different.

Originally posted by KPractice
As with all SF games it has small move lists and is easier to access but just like Tekken and no matter how accessible the game is, without knowledge of the fundamentals, you will get blown up.


Definitely, but I think fundamentals-wise it will only take a Tekken player a month of playing competitively to figure all of them out fully. So not only is it much easier to get into the game at a low level, its also much easier to get To a higher level than in Tekken as well.
Signature DSS~ WHAAAAAA!!! Too buff, too swoll. Phoenix too strong.
JUUUUUUUUNKKKKYAAAAAAAARDDD!!!
levelupyourgame.com | LEVEL UP YOUR GAME | Tekken - Throw Break Trainer - by Rip | LUYG APP for iPhone & for Android
AAK
Procrastekkenator
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1027
From: Canada
PSN: AAK0924
#9 “Quote” Edit Post
@DrBhupp:

Tekken isn't for you. Don't bother with TTT2, just wait for TxSF. I'll bet you'll enjoy that game more so than Tekken.

The beauty in Tekken lies in the fact that you have such a plethora of options at your disposal. Yes it's true that you have a lot more homework to do to play in a competitive environment. But if you limit all those options or take them away, you eliminate the thing which makes this series so great and cherished in the first place.

It doesn't matter if Tekken will never pull 1,000 man tournaments like SF4, that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it for the awesome experience it'll provide you.
Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Poland
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm quite tired with DrBhup666's posts.

Tekken doesn't need getting easier. Tekken needs great online, great practice mode and more money put into it (big tournaments, good advertising). If playing Tekken competitively would make you earn comparable cash to e.g. Starcraft 2 players, it would reach 10+ milion players in no time.

Damn it, I would even pay monthly fees for a great online, if only it would mean playing perfect online and taking part in frequent tournaments with big cash to be won.
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Aozame32
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Joined: Dec 2004
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey there, Boss! Fancy seeing you around the internet!

And I agree, especially with the "great practice mode" bit. I would love a better practice mode in Tekken.
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DrJones
7th Dan
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 89
#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Aozame32
And I agree, especially with the "great practice mode" bit. I would love a better practice mode in Tekken.


This. Thanks to SFxT, many people will probably give Tag2 a try. Tag2 REALLY needs to have a very good practise mode AND a tutorial that teaches EVERYTHING about the game, especially frames. Speaking of which, isn't it time to get rid of this BS about frames that people will have to dig them up through various sources on internet instead of having the game just tell you the essential information about itself?

What is this elitist mentality that frame data is some mysterious secret that only enlightened ones should have access to? It is absolutely insane that game doesn't give you this essential information in the commandlist. IMO if Tekken wants to stay alive and big, it needs to start taking teaching new players seriously. This isn't the 90's when most people playing Tekken just played with their close friends and didn't have a clue about the frame data even existing. Now, lot of people play online and if lack of knowledge causes them to get destroyed by people who have the knowledge, they will abandon the game.
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Aozame32
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 136
From: USA California
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by DrJones
What is this elitist mentality that frame data is some mysterious secret that only enlightened ones should have access to?


I know what you mean, man. I find this particularly annoying.
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camg37
5th Dan
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 56
From: USA Illinois
PSN: blubaloo
XBL: Yungkratos
#14 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by AAK
It doesn't matter if Tekken will never pull 1,000 man tournaments like SF4...


Tekken could most definitely do big numbers here in the US. It's just a matter of if we are going to be as hungry as the 2d community has been. The big numbers the SF4 and Marvel communities have been getting you can bet are attributed to the press that LevelUp and TeamSp00ky have generated. Those two entities along Front page SRK have created a network that generates fighting game media as entertainment. This community model of using 24 hour streams or daily streams to draw in new players is something that desperately needs to happen for us. I mean in terms of raw knowledge weve got everyone else beat by miles, But no one is really out there just straight up promoting this community anywhere near the level of say Alex Valle, Justin Wong, PeacefulJay, or Sp00ky are for the 2d community.

also @ Dr.Jones
I agree with you completely on the practice mode point. Hit boxes frame data, hitstun counters all of that. I was so excited to learn that those things would be put into Skull Girls. It kinda made me think more games might adopt some of those options into their own practice modes.

Last edited by camg37 on Mar 7th, 2012 at 16:06

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forest16
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
@ camg37: No I think people shun Tekken because they to not want to put in the time investment. It's just like what DrJones said: frame data is ESSENTIAL for high level success. But the casual player does not even know what frame data is. Namco-Bandai's official movelists are not even complete with all of a characters' moves, let alone the frames. People just want to throw fireballs, do uppercuts and see flashy supers. "Oh, look at the pretty colors!"
camg37
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 56
From: USA Illinois
PSN: blubaloo
XBL: Yungkratos
#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by forest16
@ camg37: No I think people shun Tekken because they to not want to put in the time investment. It's just like what DrJones said: frame data is ESSENTIAL for high level success. But the casual player does not even know what frame data is. Namco-Bandai's official movelists are not even complete with all of a characters' moves, let alone the frames. People just want to throw fireballs, do uppercuts and see flashy supers. "Oh, look at the pretty colors!"


This is a very poor attitude to have. Its true that Tekken requires more knowledge than most 2-d games but most people dont even know that they lack knowledge. Tekken actually did better than vanilla sf4 at the stores meaning that there are at least a large number of fans of the game in the US. The differences between 2-d games and Tekken has nothing to do with the fact that this community simply is not as hungry as theirs right now.
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forest16
ForestTekkenVideos
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by camg37
This is a very poor attitude to have. Its true that Tekken requires more knowledge than most 2-d games but most people dont even know that they lack knowledge. Tekken actually did better than vanilla sf4 at the stores meaning that there are at least a large number of fans of the game in the US. The differences between 2-d games and Tekken has nothing to do with the fact that this community simply is not as hungry as theirs right now.
I have no idea what you just said.
allencleft
Kyu
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1
From: Philippines
#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Why do i see a lot of 2 d fighting game bashing here.....As a fighting game enthusiast i find some posts of this thread to be a bit insulting. 1st of all SF X Tekken, I have to admit I find it easier than SF4(SSF4, SSF4AE2012) because of the bound combos that tekken 6 and tekken tag 2 was known for, it was fitted well so that the 2 worlds can really collide, then i read a posts about each character only having 10 to 15 moves..... sure tekken characters have a mind blowing 100+ moves, but can you really do all those in a combo, are all those moves needed in a single combo,can you really think of the 100 moves in every situation.


Let's talk about time investment, sure every fighting game needs to have a proper amount of time investment to be good at it, but it doesn't mean that you're gonna be a good fighter if you invested your time in memorizing frames, and combo strings.Heck if we talk about time investment on fighting games, the biggest one i had was learning combo Linking in SF4, in combo linking , you basically know how to do it by command, but it's harder in reality, cause you have to check the animation and frame, and of course ....very strict timing(which i don't see in tekken)
The moves in SF4 are limited , but being able to link them all makes it the hardest thing i've ever handled
being able to link normal moves(by normal moves i mean moves that don't need special motions)
heck crouching low punch then link to a crouching high punch was a really hard 2 hit combo for me,and it's just 2 hits
And of course doin link combos in a match has a high percentage of error, so seeing a complete link combos garners high respect in the fight
Then there's a post about tekken's back dash cancelling, side stepping, flash ducking....sure it sounds technical,but i'm pretty sure that it's just as hard as, Guilty Gear's Force Roman Cancelling,Air dash, air dash cancelling, Burst grabs,jump cancelling, or KOF's 3 jump system(Super Jump, Jump, Hop), frame ducking, special move cancelling, or SF's kara moves, instant overheads, dodging zero frame attacks , Link combos, and FADC, and those are just 3 of the many 2d fighting games that have their own unique game play mechanics

I think that the tekken community should try studying other games more, it wouldn't hurt to try, and you might incorporate some techniques of other games, to your tekken skills....cause i believe that 2 of the most essential things to learn in a fighting game, is to learn innovation, and to be unpredictable

Last edited by allencleft on Aug 14th, 2012 at 11:43

lanshan75
Kyu
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4
#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Thank you for your post, it is really useful for me.
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