4Gamer's Interview With Harada On Tekken Unlimited

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Rezz
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2010
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#41 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Rip
Its kind of funny that people who haven't spent substantial time with the original TTT2 are complaining about changes to it.


Couldn't have said it better myself.
Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1837
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#42 “Quote” Edit Post
"Support Namco"? ROTFLOL.

First, I want THEM to support their players. You have no idea how hard it is to make any contact with Namco representatives in Europe.

In our country, it is ONLY because of Tekken fans that there are any tournaments, ONLY! It was also thanks to our effort that we even got Tekken 6 during WCG preliminaries, and we did it the right way: Offline preliminaries.

And Namco? No support at all! Only some empty promises. This is what they can do the best. Promise and then don't give a damn.

[ragequit]
Signature http://www.ManjiKai.com - Shiki soku ze kuu!
...
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soulmaster1122
Expert
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 129
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#43 “Quote” Edit Post
The only thing that I hope that there is no 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 Online its Tag Game -_-' so put 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 1 on Offline only....and why the Change on LifeBar to Green honestly namco...-_- this was such a unhype. UPDATE....
Signature :Wait, Ogre!? Didn't I kill him in Tekken 3?Didn't I kill him in Devil Within?if I did then Why is he still alive?
: You bashed Heihachi's head through a stone wall and he survived an explosion. How do you explain THAT?
Laughing Man
Don't worry be happy
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1975
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#44 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Rocquito
It's ok if they add modes to play solo player. That's the way we always played Tekken, and there are players who don't give a fuck about tag playing and still want a new, upgraded tekken with new moves and characters. Also, new players are necessary and this will be easier for them.
BUT, it's now the developer's responsibility to make solo mode be balanced with Tag mode.

About the series' success, I think basically everyone is right when giving reasons for its popularity drop: there is not a lot of streaming, not enough hype, not that big 'supporting community' as with SF IV. However, SF has always been veeeeeery famous, and its return has been much expected and the marketing campaign was huge, with the new graphic style, etc. Good game or not, it's simply a legend and with the level of marketing SF IV had, there is no way to compete.
However, the Tekken series needs to take the best it had, and there were severe flaws in the game (and in its marketing) that didn't help:

-They made several trailers showing both impossible CG scenes and then, later, ugly non-game teasers. Lack of marketing and foreseeing, in my opinion.

-You cannot delay the console version of an expected game more than 1 year after the arcade release. It's ridiculous.

- It's even more ridiculous to release the console version in sub-hd resolution, with jaggies the size of a head, in a generation that had mercilessly punished games like DOA 4 or VF 5 for their graphic finishing, and now people expected the graphics of Fight Night 3 in Tekken. Maybe impossible, but surely there were better ways to impress with Tekken graphics than pigs and doves flying, huge jaggies, and ugly floor breaks. I love Tekken and don't mind that so much, but the general public is superficial and wants graphics, sorry.

- The fucking endless juggles. Sorry juggle fans, I personally think making them soooooooo long makes the game more boring, breaks the tempo and the fun, and also looks ridiculous for non-familiar players, as the physics look simply stupid. Instead of shortening them a bit or changing the aspect, they made them longer and added the bounce, which looks as horrendous or even more.

-Why aren't there more streamings of Tekken? Well, partially because for the general public, 80% will think they are horrible anyway. They will not understand the mindgames or the spacing, and will basically see how the characters exchange endless combos with ugly physics. How many reversals, chickens, tackle reversals, parries, amazing moves and stances do you see in average Tekken videos? And now, how many long juggles?

Our responsibility as community is not to kiss Harada's feet to everything they do. Is to fucking help them find WHAT to do to keep experts AND casuals happy and attracted about the game. Would a better graphic polishing help? Hell, it would. Proper marketing with some game cutscenes and amazing fight cuts? Yes. Shortening and 'making up' juggles and combo system? I would say yes.

Companies commit the stupid mistake of thinking that making casual and expert gamers happy at the same time is impossible, but we basically commit the same mistakes sometimes. There are things to change in Tekken that would make both happy. And Harada doesn't seem to be looking in the right direction.


QFT

Poor marketing, late console release, sub-par graphics, endless juggles, weird looking physics, boring looking top level matches. Wrong focus.

Epic post, Rocquito.
Devil_Jin-Kun
Fujin
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 555
From: Canada
PSN: MyvTeddy
#45 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Rocquito
It's ok if they add modes to play solo player. That's the way we always played Tekken, and there are players who don't give a fuck about tag playing and still want a new, upgraded tekken with new moves and characters. Also, new players are necessary and this will be easier for them.
BUT, it's now the developer's responsibility to make solo mode be balanced with Tag mode.

About the series' success, I think basically everyone is right when giving reasons for its popularity drop: there is not a lot of streaming, not enough hype, not that big 'supporting community' as with SF IV. However, SF has always been veeeeeery famous, and its return has been much expected and the marketing campaign was huge, with the new graphic style, etc. Good game or not, it's simply a legend and with the level of marketing SF IV had, there is no way to compete.
However, the Tekken series needs to take the best it had, and there were severe flaws in the game (and in its marketing) that didn't help:

-They made several trailers showing both impossible CG scenes and then, later, ugly non-game teasers. Lack of marketing and foreseeing, in my opinion.

-You cannot delay the console version of an expected game more than 1 year after the arcade release. It's ridiculous.

- It's even more ridiculous to release the console version in sub-hd resolution, with jaggies the size of a head, in a generation that had mercilessly punished games like DOA 4 or VF 5 for their graphic finishing, and now people expected the graphics of Fight Night 3 in Tekken. Maybe impossible, but surely there were better ways to impress with Tekken graphics than pigs and doves flying, huge jaggies, and ugly floor breaks. I love Tekken and don't mind that so much, but the general public is superficial and wants graphics, sorry.

- The fucking endless juggles. Sorry juggle fans, I personally think making them soooooooo long makes the game more boring, breaks the tempo and the fun, and also looks ridiculous for non-familiar players, as the physics look simply stupid. Instead of shortening them a bit or changing the aspect, they made them longer and added the bounce, which looks as horrendous or even more.

-Why aren't there more streamings of Tekken? Well, partially because for the general public, 80% will think they are horrible anyway. They will not understand the mindgames or the spacing, and will basically see how the characters exchange endless combos with ugly physics. How many reversals, chickens, tackle reversals, parries, amazing moves and stances do you see in average Tekken videos? And now, how many long juggles?

Our responsibility as community is not to kiss Harada's feet to everything they do. Is to fucking help them find WHAT to do to keep experts AND casuals happy and attracted about the game. Would a better graphic polishing help? Hell, it would. Proper marketing with some game cutscenes and amazing fight cuts? Yes. Shortening and 'making up' juggles and combo system? I would say yes.

Companies commit the stupid mistake of thinking that making casual and expert gamers happy at the same time is impossible, but we basically commit the same mistakes sometimes. There are things to change in Tekken that would make both happy. And Harada doesn't seem to be looking in the right direction.


QTF, especially so for the endless juggles.

Its so frustrating to watch a long ass combo. It takes me out of the game and if I were to make another mistake, I'm forced to watch another long ass combo again and it just takes me out entirely and difficult to get back in.

Bound, why do you exist.
TKOIF seeker
Destroyer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 369
From: France
#46 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Rocquito
However, the Tekken series needs to take the best it had, and there were severe flaws in the game (and in its marketing) that didn't help:
[...]
- The fucking endless juggles. Sorry juggle fans, I personally think making them soooooooo long makes the game more boring, breaks the tempo and the fun, and also looks ridiculous for non-familiar players, as the physics look simply stupid. Instead of shortening them a bit or changing the aspect, they made them longer and added the bounce, which looks as horrendous or even more.
Yes, animations don't look good as far as dash jabs, spacing (BDC), bound (and wall bound) are concerned. Even walking forward or backward makes your character not look right. Plus some old glitchy things are still not fixed to this day like "phantom" hitbox when opponent is wall splat with its face to the wall, or moves in juggles whiffing just as your opponent is about to hit the wall...

Long juggles are a great thing to the franchise imo, but since they tend to happen too often, they become disgusting (like a meal with too much spice), and also break the flow of the game. Especially when:
> they are doable from a lot of situations:
- fast launchers aka generic d/f+2, u/f+4 and character specific launchers
- get-up low kick
- jabs floating airborne opponent
- throw-launchers (though there are not many)
- resets at KND opponent
- as crush moves for some

> it's very hard to defend against them for most players, and they can punish you for the slightest mistake (random step launch etc.)

> they just prevail in too much situations (i.e. it's more damaging to juggle your BT opponent than throw him; if you have required frame advantage and range, you should always go for a juggle), making them sort of boring as you see them happen too much. Shorter (no bound) juggles should play a bigger role than (almost) only in low parry situations.
Which leads to what you said after:


-Why aren't there more streamings of Tekken? Well, partially because for the general public, 80% will think they are horrible anyway. They will not understand the mindgames or the spacing, and will basically see how the characters exchange endless combos with ugly physics. How many reversals, chickens, tackle reversals, parries, amazing moves and stances do you see in average Tekken videos? And now, how many long juggles?
Exactly. The wide variety of features that Tekken offers is not rendered properly.
Besides, I can see that some people would argue about other fighting games being heavier on juggles (I only talk about their length here). But:
- other games don't dictate what should be in Tekken (especially when one only likes Tekken)
- most of them are in 2D and somewhat less believable in physics department. In Tekken however, you should really feel how strong a move is to send the opponent airborne, which d/f+2's and air jabs simply don't do. Combined with weird looking moves all around (i.e. just moving around the arena looks glitchy), this does not make the game interesting to watch for an average spectator.

Our responsibility as community is not to kiss Harada's feet to everything they do. Is to fucking help them find WHAT to do to keep experts AND casuals happy and attracted about the game.
Yes, we are not here to say "I don't mind it" or "It's not broken so it's okay" but having fun with what's being added, finding the new additions interesting. So if you don't like something just voice your opinion. Claiming something is imbalanced to legitimize your complaint though is wrong. It's also important to show your support for things you like, instead of just whining.

Companies commit the stupid mistake of thinking that making casual and expert gamers happy at the same time is impossible, but we basically commit the same mistakes sometimes. There are things to change in Tekken that would make both happy.
Hmm I believe they actually do think it's possible, but just don't do it the right way.
SPINMASTER X
Tekken Lord Black
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 944
From: USA Mississippi
PSN: SMX-001
XBL: SPINMASTER X
#47 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Rocquito

-Why aren't there more streamings of Tekken? Well, partially because for the general public, 80% will think they are horrible anyway. They will not understand the mindgames or the spacing, and will basically see how the characters exchange endless combos with ugly physics. How many reversals, chickens, tackle reversals, parries, amazing moves and stances do you see in average Tekken videos? And now, how many long juggles?

Our responsibility as community is not to kiss Harada's feet to everything they do. Is to fucking help them find WHAT to do to keep experts AND casuals happy and attracted about the game. Would a better graphic polishing help? Hell, it would. Proper marketing with some game cutscenes and amazing fight cuts? Yes. Shortening and 'making up' juggles and combo system? I would say yes.


Those 2 bolded parts are my exact same sentiments.

Tekken is such an immersive game but with Namco putting the focus mainly on juggles what's the use of having those other elements if they don't really come into play? That's what I'm always complaining about. I wanna see that immersive strategy that pits 2 players minds against each other, not repeatedly seeing how good somebody is at tapping a sequence of buttons after a launcher.

And you're right. We're not just supposed to kiss feet. Being apathetic and/or unapologetic fanboys is what's gonna let this game go straight down the tubes.
Signature Feng Wei: The sixth deadly venom.

"The word kenpō is a Japanese translation of the Chinese word "qu?nfǎ"

"In Japanese martial arts, kenpō is used to designate Chinese martial arts, (much as the term kung fu is used in English-speaking countries)"
Dilly
When in doubt, D+3+4
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2231
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#48 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kazu-Yoshi-girl
"Support Namco"? ROTFLOL.

First, I want THEM to support their players. You have no idea how hard it is to make any contact with Namco representatives in Europe.

In our country, it is ONLY because of Tekken fans that there are any tournaments, ONLY! It was also thanks to our effort that we even got Tekken 6 during WCG preliminaries, and we did it the right way: Offline preliminaries.

And Namco? No support at all! Only some empty promises. This is what they can do the best. Promise and then don't give a damn.

[ragequit]


Namco has shown tons of support here in America. Going to countless tournaments, giving out major prizes, bringing TTT2 set ups for everyone in attendance to play and the like.

Hell, look how much cash they paid out at SDComic Con to players. That IS support. It was enough to get some SF players, including Justin Wong into the mix, that much is for sure.

Sounds like me like your problem is with Namco: Europe (if they even have a european team) and not the team which handles Tekken... Choose your battles, but always make sure your foe is the proper target.
Signature Need the hook-up on cable service? Get at me.

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MAC404
Dragon Lord
Joined: Jul 2008
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#49 “Quote” Edit Post
the drop in Tekken's popularity is due to a poor marketing strategy like a few have already mentioned. and its only poor in comparison to other game developers, Just look at Capcom for example..and I think that Tekken streams, tournaments, commentators, Bob, 1v1 1v2 play very little part in popularity.. Namco has seemed to follow in the same footsteps as Sony with the poor marketing in the sense that they both seem to have this attitude where the product will sell itself, without a strong marketing campaign..

The problem is no one is paying attention to the elephant in the room. and I'm referring to the huge untapped market of gamers that know nothing of tournaments anywhere, gamers with no ardcade scenes, gamers who aren't aware of web sites like Tekken Zaibatsu, or gamers who just like to play casually.. Until Namco figures out how to reach this market then its inevitable that Tekken will just fade away.. Namco has to do WAAAAAAAAAY more than making a 1v1 mode or a scenario campaign lol... They have to figure out how to keep the casual player interested, and they aren't gonna do that buy releasing a game on console once every 4 years with no updates or dlc. Theres too much competition for that, the casual gamer will get bored and just migrate to something new. Namco needs to change with the times. A videogames lifespan isnt as long as it was in the past, they just need to work on keeping the series as fresh as possible..
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Baraka
StrongStyle
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1641
From: Australia
PSN: FlyingWonkey
#50 “Quote” Edit Post
https://twitter.com/#!/mykeryu/stat...129145730514944
https://twitter.com/#!/mykeryu/stat...129742684831746
https://twitter.com/#!/mykeryu/stat...130119673061377
https://twitter.com/#!/mykeryu/stat...130628416978944

..... Michael are you reading this thread?

Don't take it so hard bro, people just want to help improve your game. I highly doubt people are doing it out of malice.
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Rocquito
Kyu
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8
From: Spain
#51 “Quote” Edit Post
I absolutely didn't write anything out of malice, all the contrary, I love Tekken so much that I really would like to help making it the best fighting game. Which it is likely to be.

Please Michael, confirm you are actually reading this thread... it would be so great to know our opinions are 'heard', at least...
NarooN
2nd Dan
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 25
From: USA Louisiana
PSN: NarooN
#52 “Quote” Edit Post
Sucks that Murray is taking this shit pretty hard, but that's what happens when the whole community nerdrages. Though I understand where the complaints are coming from, people need to chill the fuck out at times.
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Rezz
War Lord
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 709
From: USA New York
PSN: RezzEternal
#53 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by NarooN
Sucks that Murray is taking this shit pretty hard, but that's what happens when the whole community nerdrages. Though I understand where the complaints are coming from, people need to chill the fuck out at times.

It clearly ISN'T the whole community.

I can understand the need to address issues one might have, but a lot of these complaints come off as whiny. I seriously can't believe people are crying THIS much about the issue of 1vs1 or 1vs2. Especially when nobody knows the specifics of the modes or if it will be in tourny play. Honestly people SO THE FUCK WHAT!?. People hear ONE thing, one TINY thing and the barrages of rants and whines start to pour out of people's brains. Jeez at least wait until you hear the details. People need the chill the fuck out.
Senna
2nd Dan
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 20
From: Australia
#54 “Quote” Edit Post
What i think is that Namco is doing their best to satisfy all kinds of gamers in the market wether you're are begginner, intermidiate or expert whilst still making money. I don't get why people would complain about Tekken having the 'Bound System'. It will only be really ridiculous if they didn't find anything that will make a totally new game. And as for people complaining about long combos, they are already hard enough to execute in my opinion. What I don't like is that they are giving characters in the game more chance to launch for a new juggle, just like what we saw in the trailer. I am not sure but I think on block Lee's ws23 is a 13 frame punisher. And so is Bruce being able to launch from his ws 21. I have played Tag 2 and what I don't like is that the game almost becomes a combo fest. I know it's a tag game but the feel you get from playing Tekken 6 where you have to do a lot of mind games and be safer is almost gone. People turtle a lot less in Tag 2.

And also the inclusion of solo play I think is a good idea. If you don't want the mode then just don't choose it, as simple as that. It's kind of funny to see people complaining about that new mode. It will simply bring new people to the game meaning there will be a bigger support to Tekken and will make the online gaming bigger because there will be more pepople playing.

As for people say Tekken becoming unpopular, clearly you haven't been here in Sydney Australia. Tekken is so popular here and there are so many good players.

I would just like Namco to make their fans happy by not delaying the console release and to not take away features like 'Record' in practice that people actually really liked. Also, if they make the graphics almost the same in the arcades to what they are going to release in the consoles then that would be really great. I would also like to see a better practice mode, having Frame Data and more stuff that will let you become a better player. This would also bring new people in.
Senna
2nd Dan
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 20
From: Australia
#55 “Quote” Edit Post
Just few reasons why there have been quite a few people shift from Tekken to other fighting games like SF4, its because that SF$ is a beginner friendlier game. Just some mash of the buttons and you may have a good chance of beating a decent player. But in Tekken, you can almost immediately see the gap in skills between two players.
Rocquito
Kyu
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8
From: Spain
#56 “Quote” Edit Post
Hello Senna.

I agree with most of what you said, and also agree on TTT 2 looking like a 'combo fest', but still don't think that the juggles being 'difficult' justifies how long they last. It's about the tempo of the game, and long juggles break it completely. If they want to keep bounce (which I think may be good as it requires specific moves during the juggles) then the 'air-floating time' and the 'floating effect' of the hits has to be dramatically shortened. Difficult and 'skill-proving' juggles sounds good, but they have to last a maximum of 1 second. Having into account that any useless ass can now have the opponent for 2 seconds in the air simply mashing buttons, it sounds like a strong change in the juggle system.

TTT 2 already has very little to add to Tekken 6: the amount of characters and moves seem to be almost the same. The juggles are even longer, which is just what we DONT need. The graphics in the Tekken Hybrid Prologue are almost the same as Tekken 6, if not worse. The 'only' improvements are the fastest gameplay, the 3D compatibility and the improved AI (god, it was really weak in Tekken 6...).

I have a bad feeling about TTT2 success, as personally it's the first Tekken ever I'm not VERY interested about. Let's hope they'll be taking notes for TK x SF, which I will surely buy...
Left_Iron_Fist
Shihan
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 105
From: USA New York
PSN: SilentRain123
#57 “Quote” Edit Post
I will admit that I found scenario campaign in T6 somewhat enjoyable, but when it overshadows the basis of the game, it's useless. Add to it a mediocre practice mode and a loading screen, which is the worst offender, offering tacked on information on game mechanics.

I think what's most annoying is why this mechanic was added, not to add more game depth but to draw in players. If they really want to draw in new players they should offer a proper training mode which teaches movement, spacing, low parrying, throw breaking, etc. Honestly how hard is this to do? You want beginners to stand a chance, how bout you help teach them the tools necessary to succeed. New players should not have to look on sites like TZ to learn these and instead should be going to forums/faqs looking for communities/tourneys and strategies. The lack of in game frame data doesn't bother me as much as this.

All I can say is that if namco doesn't add a good training/practice mode into the console release of tag 2, they're digging their own graves.
Rocquito
Kyu
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 8
From: Spain
#58 “Quote” Edit Post
Actually, Mr. Harada confirmed in Twitter (and I think interviews) a couple of times already that they are working on implementing a really good training mode for TTT 2. So... we can trust them on that.

Guys, if you have tried TTT 2 already. Is it faster than T6, or is it only my feeling? When I tried it, the speed felt better, and even the few juggles I suffered were not SO painful because it was faster. Any opinion on your side?
Baraka
StrongStyle
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1641
From: Australia
PSN: FlyingWonkey
#59 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Left_Iron_Fist

I think what's most annoying is why this mechanic was added, not to add more game depth but to draw in players. If they really want to draw in new players they should offer a proper training mode which teaches movement, spacing, low parrying, throw breaking, etc. Honestly how hard is this to do? You want beginners to stand a chance, how bout you help teach them the tools necessary to succeed. New players should not have to look on sites like TZ to learn these and instead should be going to forums/faqs looking for communities/tourneys and strategies. The lack of in game frame data doesn't bother me as much as this.


I'm not too sure If Harada is big on these practice modes.....

"That's an important topic for any fighting game. You can have a practice mode that really goes in depth and strives to help players improve, but what we've found is that a lot of players never even touch practice modes. It's worth noting that when the fighter genre first hit arcades, there weren't any real tutorials. Instead, the designers tweaked the difficulty level such that after a couple of credits, you had already gone from beginner to intermediate player -- something you could then improve upon by learning more moves and practicing.

Source: http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forum...threadid=122475
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Left_Iron_Fist
Shihan
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 105
From: USA New York
PSN: SilentRain123
#60 “Quote” Edit Post
Just add a throw break/bdc trail mode with trophy support. That'll get motivate them.

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