Originally posted by Rocquito
However, the Tekken series needs to take the best it had, and there were severe flaws in the game (and in its marketing) that didn't help:
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- The fucking endless juggles. Sorry juggle fans, I personally think making them soooooooo long makes the game more boring, breaks the tempo and the fun, and also looks ridiculous for non-familiar players, as the physics look simply stupid. Instead of shortening them a bit or changing the aspect, they made them longer and added the bounce, which looks as horrendous or even more.
Yes, animations don't look good as far as dash jabs, spacing (BDC), bound (and wall bound) are concerned. Even walking forward or backward makes your character not look right. Plus some old glitchy things are still not fixed to this day like "phantom" hitbox when opponent is wall splat with its face to the wall, or moves in juggles whiffing just as your opponent is about to hit the wall...
Long juggles are a great thing to the franchise imo, but since they tend to happen too often, they become disgusting (like a meal with too much spice), and also break the flow of the game. Especially when:
> they are doable from a lot of situations:
- fast launchers aka generic d/f+2, u/f+4 and character specific launchers
- get-up low kick
- jabs floating airborne opponent
- throw-launchers (though there are not many)
- resets at KND opponent
- as crush moves for some
> it's very hard to defend against them for most players, and they can punish you for the slightest mistake (random step launch etc.)
> they just prevail in too much situations (i.e. it's more damaging to juggle your BT opponent than throw him; if you have required frame advantage and range, you should always go for a juggle), making them sort of boring as you see them happen too much. Shorter (no bound) juggles should play a bigger role than (almost) only in low parry situations.
Which leads to what you said after:
-Why aren't there more streamings of Tekken? Well, partially because for the general public, 80% will think they are horrible anyway. They will not understand the mindgames or the spacing, and will basically see how the characters exchange endless combos with ugly physics. How many reversals, chickens, tackle reversals, parries, amazing moves and stances do you see in average Tekken videos? And now, how many long juggles?
Exactly. The wide variety of features that Tekken offers is not rendered properly.
Besides, I can see that some people would argue about other fighting games being heavier on juggles (I only talk about their length here). But:
- other games don't dictate what should be in Tekken (especially when one only likes Tekken)
- most of them are in 2D and somewhat less believable in physics department. In Tekken however, you should really feel how strong a move is to send the opponent airborne, which d/f+2's and air jabs simply don't do. Combined with weird looking moves all around (i.e. just moving around the arena looks glitchy), this does not make the game interesting to watch for an average spectator.
Our responsibility as community is not to kiss Harada's feet to everything they do. Is to fucking help them find WHAT to do to keep experts AND casuals happy and attracted about the game.
Yes, we are not here to say "I don't mind it" or "It's not broken so it's okay" but having fun with what's being added, finding the new additions interesting. So if you don't like something just voice your opinion. Claiming something is imbalanced to legitimize your complaint though is wrong. It's also important to show your support for things you like, instead of just whining.
Companies commit the stupid mistake of thinking that making casual and expert gamers happy at the same time is impossible, but we basically commit the same mistakes sometimes. There are things to change in Tekken that would make both happy.
Hmm I believe they actually do think it's possible, but just don't do it the right way.
