TTT2 Tiers Part 2
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Melee_Sovereign
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#461 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by alucard81
does Eddy and Christie have slightly different hit boxes or something?


Eddy has slightly longer reach while Christie has better throws.
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Flying Wonkey
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#462 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Foxy_Mishima
I think as Steve player myself i disagree, i think it's otherwise, Steve is downright amazing as tag partner. he is one of the few that can do 6 hit tag assault with great damage (DVJ is the only other character i can think of), things like KAZ ewgf ewgf db+2~5 STEVE PAB b+1,1,2,1 dck 1, KAZ ff+2 is possible

on the wall tag asault he also brought good damage.


You know, I was just tuning into a video of Knee's Steve/Bryan team and maybe in retrospect I probably did hastily ran with that idea after noticing that he can't launch as efficiently (I can't really say how stable enough that CH df+2 ff+2 combo entry is. If your combo staple has reports of inconsistency issues then I can't say that is quite favorable when other characters have easy to perform staple damage) also the general idea that the tag feature itself can punish Steve for his db+2. Well let's get practical then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSm7708o2bU (This was the video I was watching)

@ 30s
B+1, 3,1,1 - makes for noticeable damage while keeping the opponent afloat allowing partner to get in at the wall.

@ 42s
I actually forgot about that gatling whatsitname move. The DCK + 1+2 move. Look's impressive If you're wearing the damage scaler down and might just squeeze in the damage.

@ 2m
Inconsistency with just getting CH df+2 , f+2,1 to connect..... You have to hit them close or something?

@ 2m 35s
Huh strong tag assault from PKB combo. Carries a fair bit of distance too.

Blah he's received nerfs and buffs. I can't say If he's worse off or better. It just feels like a general reshuffle of the character. Are they trying to make you reinvent Steve and play original or something??

Being a CH hunting character, this nerf hit himself really hard that there's almost no frame trap for him now. And with ultra crappy mixup game, he is too high risk-low return to use nowadays.


Well now I guess the Tag system itself can solve Steve's dilemmas then. Keep him as an assist since he can't reliably launch as easy as several other characters on the roster and then give it to Steve to deal with damage. You'll fix Steve's launch hole and If the point character's weakness was combo damage then that's pretty good team synergy as far as I imagine.

Huh maybe he does have it working for him then. Can't find the specifics on why they moved him down though in the rankings though. Translation at Tekkenbbs suggest their still bickering over Lei Wulong and the little damage Jin is doing afaik.

Also: Can anyone find a decent video source of someone decently punishing a Tag Crash? I see players often sacrificing their rage for the Tag Crash and I want to see If anyone went up and beyond and tried to punish it. (Idk maybe a DVJ up laser or something)

Another thing, why don't I see a decent Steve Fox combo thread in the TTT2 section? Somebody get to it.

Last edited by Flying Wonkey on Feb 9th, 2012 at 07:39

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Foxy_Mishima
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#463 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Baraka
You know, I was just tuning into a video of Knee's Steve/Bryan team and maybe in retrospect I probably did hastily ran with that idea after noticing that he can't launch as efficiently (I can't really say how stable enough that CH df+2 ff+2 combo entry is. If your combo staple has reports of inconsistency issues then I can't say that is quite favorable when other characters have easy to perform staple damage) also the general idea that the tag feature itself can punish Steve for his db+2. Well let's get practical then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSm7708o2bU (This was the video I was watching)

@ 30s
B+1, 3,1,1 - makes for noticeable damage while keeping the opponent afloat allowing partner to get in at the wall.

@ 42s
I actually forgot about that gatling whatsitname move. The DCK + 1+2 move. Look's impressive If you're wearing the damage scaler down and might just squeeze in the damage.

@ 2m
Inconsistency with just getting CH df+2 , f+2,1 to connect..... You have to hit them close or something?

@ 2m 35s
Huh strong tag assault from PKB combo. Carries a fair bit of distance too.

Blah he's received nerfs and buffs. I can't say If he's worse off or better. It just feels like a general reshuffle of the character. Are they trying to make you reinvent Steve and play original or something??



Well now I guess the Tag system itself can solve Steve's dilemmas then. Keep him as an assist since he can't reliably launch as easy as several other characters on the roster and then give it to Steve to deal with damage. You'll fix Steve's launch hole and If the point character's weakness was combo damage then that's pretty good team synergy as far as I imagine.

Huh maybe he does have it working for him then. Can't find the specifics on why they moved him down though in the rankings though. Translation at Tekkenbbs suggest their still bickering over Lei Wulong and the little damage Jin is doing afaik.

Also: Can anyone find a decent video source of someone decently punishing a Tag Crash? I see players often sacrificing their rage for the Tag Crash and I want to see If anyone went up and beyond and tried to punish it. (Idk maybe a DVJ up laser or something)

Another thing, why don't I see a decent Steve Fox combo thread in the TTT2 section? Somebody get to it.


Yup the one @ 2:35 is similar to the one i've posted, it's pretty consistent if you ssl first, knee's kinda late in Steve's ssl so he can't connect bryan's mach punch after. He's done it in other vid, IIRC it's vs Hao,

yes the df2 ch, f+2,1 combo only works in close range , about the df+2 ch, ff+2, i think it's kinda similar to kaz's df+2 ewgf launch, when you can do it, you can do it, when you can't, you cant. Steve's still easier than kaz's though.

I agree that the basic idea is to have a partner with a strong launching game with so-so juggle filler (Knee's using Bryan and Kaz and Hwoarang, all fill the criteria excepting hwoarang)

about the taggable launcher... Steve actually got a pretty decent one. after b+1 ch, he can ext dck1~5 and the partner can do full combo after. in any mid juggle he can also do dck1~5 and let the partner B! and he will do his impressive tag assault game.

So to base my argument upon, some of the unknown nerf for steve are:

2,1 being high-high, and doesnt jail iirc, and the 1 comes quite slow after the 2 so you can duck on reaction (Bob's 2,1 also nerved to h,h but it's a lot faster, 10 frame iirc and maybe it jails, and given Bob's jab range...)
steve's 2 is already 12 frame and shorter than his 1 jab range.

112 on hit is only +1 now.. no more ch hunting after 10-15 frame punish (yes he still only has 112 as his best 13 and 14 frame punish) , so if we want more option after punish, we have to use 2,1~F_B, only 4 damage difference so i have to remind myself to use it more

df+1,2~1~b flk on block is now -2 instead of 0 ~_~

1, d+1~b flk and 1,1,d+1~b is now 0 istead of +3 in BR

its still ? in any frame data but i'm pretty sure b+1~b is no longer -1 on block , things that works in BR is interrupted more nowadays

ws+1+2 now -15 instead of -14, some steve players use this to crushes jab/low jab attempts after dck cancel so now it's more dangerous.

PAB df+1 strings is punishable after the 2nd uppercut, but it launches on ch now so its +-

his buffs....

f+1+2 brings a lot of + frames on block with transition to PAB and flk, and yeah HC able knockdown, but i think it's super slow and for a 17-18 frame 2 hit move the range is pathetic. whiff it and you get launched :S

b+2 launches on NH is great addition, no complaint , the fact that its range is similar to his db+3's range is also great for new mixup.

i like the fc, df+1 addition , easy low to PAB

so the basic argument is this Steve feels like his 6.0 counterpart, where it's really questionable of how to play him. What is he nowadays? CH hunting pokey char? Drag and Bob does the job better, Mixup char? a lot of the cast have better mixup game (Lei with all his launcher lows), evasive char? well still works but again some other char does the job better (baek and hwoarang's triple ss game), he still excel in his whiff punishment game with his ff+2 though , one of the few character who can hurt jun and asuka's annoying whiffed random B+3 and followups anytime anywhere

Even as tag partner, although i'm the one saying he's impressive, Hwoarang, Lars, Leo, DVJ, Heihachi, Jaycee and others does the job equally good or better with better point gameplay. so it's also questionable

He's solid, yes, but a lot of other (A/S tier char) does his job better in their speciality, he's not even top 5 in any departement :S, he's a well rounded, med risk med gain char

He might jump to A tier if someone experimented with him and find a new, effective playstyle just like Nin did during the transition of 5.0->5.1-> DR, DR steve also lost a lot of his tools and Nin basically invented a new playstyle we all know nowadays.

Looking at his tools i think it's impossible, but who knows the Koreans will come up with something interesting

Last edited by Foxy_Mishima on Feb 9th, 2012 at 08:39

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JFK[satZ]
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#464 “Quote” Edit Post
Steve has his new b+1,2 as a i13 punisher iirc?

/ JFK
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DrBhup666
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#465 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Keeper of the CRANE
In Soviet Russia, we just hold b(ack).


Wrong, dude!

In Soviet Russia, back holds you to block!
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Foxy_Mishima
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Joined: May 2003
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#466 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by JFK[satZ]
Steve has his new b+1,2 as a i13 punisher iirc?

/ JFK


yeah but i think 112 still does more damage, and 2,1~F brought more + frames on hit :S
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Kane
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#467 “Quote” Edit Post
I have the feeling things are going to be very different soon...

as ppl [should] know, they're announcing a "new" ttt2 next week at AOU in japan.

if I'm reading this correctly, someone asked harada on twitter:

"もっとです。 RT @tsukyakko ずばり!AOUに出展予定の「新鉄拳TAG2(仮」は、6BRのようなメジャーアップデートバージョンなんですかっ?!"

basically asked him if the new ttt2 is going to receive a major update like BR ... he said "more"
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DrBhup666
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#468 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kane
I have the feeling things are going to be very different soon...

as ppl [should] know, they're announcing a "new" ttt2 next week at AOU in japan.

if I'm reading this correctly, someone asked harada on twitter:

"もっとです。 RT @tsukyakko ずばり!AOUに出展予定の「新鉄拳TAG2(仮」は、6BRのようなメジャーアップデートバージョンなんですかっ?!"

basically asked him if the new ttt2 is going to receive a major update like BR ... he said "more"



Holy crap!!!!!

If TTT2 is going to recieve MORE upgrade than T6.0 --> T6 BR, then it will surely be totally different game than it is now!!

For the first time in very long time I'm actaully excited about it. At the same time a bit worried. It's a funny feeling to have!

Maybe they'll put in some sort of combo-breaker or some sort of 'super' ultra-meter or something. Maybe it is more characters or something like that. I bet they have reduced the combo-damage and the possibility to juggle like crazy, like it is now.

How are your feelings on this, Kane? In my experience you are often right in your judgement.

Man AOU 2012 can not come soon enough!!
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tyler2k
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#469 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kane
I have the feeling things are going to be very different soon...

as ppl [should] know, they're announcing a "new" ttt2 next week at AOU in japan.

if I'm reading this correctly, someone asked harada on twitter:

"もっとです。 RT @tsukyakko ずばり!AOUに出展予定の「新鉄拳TAG2(仮」は、6BRのようなメジャーアップデートバージョンなんですかっ?!"

basically asked him if the new ttt2 is going to receive a major update like BR ... he said "more"

Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, let the speculation begin
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#470 “Quote” Edit Post
I hope lars is better
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Melee_Sovereign
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#471 “Quote” Edit Post
They better not nerf Zafina! >_<

And even if I don't care about her that much, Alisa deserves to have her old bd back.
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saiyuk
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#472 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kane
I have the feeling things are going to be very different soon...

as ppl [should] know, they're announcing a "new" ttt2 next week at AOU in japan.

if I'm reading this correctly, someone asked harada on twitter:

"もっとです。 RT @tsukyakko ずばり!AOUに出展予定の「新鉄拳TAG2(仮」は、6BRのようなメジャーアップデートバージョンなんですかっ?!"

basically asked him if the new ttt2 is going to receive a major update like BR ... he said "more"


i would translate that as "will the 'new TTT 2 (working title)' you are planning to show at AOU be a major updated version similar to 6 -> BR?"

to which i understand his reply (i dont use twitter because its for retards) is

"even moreso".

so showing it. and its already the major update.
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VargasTheSick
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#473 “Quote” Edit Post
If they added Kuni, what the hell are all the morons going to complain about ?, they already added Jun.

I really have no idea what they are going to do. I haven't played TTT2 yet, but I haven't seen anything game breaking that needs fixing outside of Whorangs blood hawk. I hope Heihachi and the other Mishimas don't get nerfed.
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Melee_Sovereign
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#474 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by VargasTheSick
If they added Kuni, what the hell are all the morons going to complain about ?


Miharu
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Kane
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#475 “Quote” Edit Post
michelle
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Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
St. George
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#476 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by TheDinosaur
I hope lars is better


They should basically leave him as is but include 1 additional long range B! move from each stance and perhaps give him a new canned wall string for TA!, only this time with more hits. I've noticed that f+4,1,2,1 requires pressing too many different buttons for your average Lars player so perhaps the next one should be a little more simplistic. I'm imagining f+3+4, 3+4, 3+4, 3+4, 3+4, 3+4 and the animation would be Lars literally fucking his opponent into the wall.

Also whatever this update consists of, if it isn't a completley free online update then arcade owners will not be pleased. TTT2 is already the most expensive game yet with the live monitors, network integration and "game credits" system. To charge another bulk amount now would be stupidly greedy, even for bamco.
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PhineBuyM3
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#477 “Quote” Edit Post
I hope the Mishimas get nerfed.
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OffInBed
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#478 “Quote” Edit Post
Why nerf mishimas? They aren't easy to master. Skill mishima players are finally getting what they deserve.
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#479 “Quote” Edit Post
hope that they increase the damage in this game, damage feels so weak outside of using hwoarang.
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#480 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by OffInBed
Why nerf mishimas? They aren't easy to master. Skill mishima players are finally getting what they deserve.


I still think the EWGF range is too big... That's my only complain...
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