OK can anybody give me some advice for playing Yoshimitsu? Honestly I don't know why people think he's so bad, I just watched about 6 Korean videos with him and he won them all. He is so damn confusing and has launchers galore!

I mean I know why he's low on the tier list but there's something about him that just makes him potentially amazing in the right hands.

once you realise that everything is a setup with most yoshimitsu players all you have to do is wait for him to throw something out, whiff and hes dead

low juggle dmg, poor oki, unrelibale juggles no wall carry, no lows

cancan_b3 sword sweep (seeable after a while)

uf4 launch punish fc df4 (this sweep is hella seeable)

swr ff4, on block df1 or can can

uf3 is -11 crap range for a hopknee but it crushes highs as well as lows

df2,2 is -14

the 3 hit ws string that forces crouch is -20 (forgot the notation) uf4 him

f,d,df1 is -17

flash has less than zero range

jab float him out of dragonfly and flea stance if he does it up in your face

if he goes into indian stance at long range do start sw or tooth fairy if you know they won't react in time

1,1,is -4 on hit so you get a mixup after he jab punishes you!

if he's in rage at the end of the round and runs up to you df4 him as its probably a rage suicide

basciall yoshis not good, but yoshi players who use him well are sick - imagine if they used bryan!

poor yoshi - i remember him in dr when he was scary

and he has no crouch jab lol

Holy god thanks for the quick informative reply!

"the 3 hit ws string that forces crouch is -20 (forgot the notation) uf4 him" I can't find this string anywhere based on frame data or move lists...can you help out?

And what do you mean he has no crouch jab?

Then I'll be ready for Leok and Glitzko!

Lol, Leok is staying here in Mexico, he's leaving until monday. I'll get to play him some long sets, if I catch anything worth sharing from his yoshi I'll tell you. I'm hoping not to get destroyed by his julia, but we'll see.

@jaden

i can't remember the notation or if its ws - go to the moveset in defensive mode and set hit analysis to 'on' and go thru each move

Thanks guys. But seriously if you guys can you should play novi_glitzko online on PSN. He's here on zaibatsu as well if you need to find him. I was so impressed the last time I played his yoshi.

Last edited by jadensoral on Jul 28th, 2011 at 15:17

How would Asuka approach Jack to beat him? He has very good tools for block punish and pressure, and he can whiff punish as good as Asuka, you can't parry his f,f+1 what can I do?

Hopkick for jack. Even a Jack player told me that

VS Jack-6:

- df+2 is punishable by 2,3.
- ff+1 sidesteppable to the right.
- uf+4 (hopkick) WORKS best since it can't be punished, except for f+2. It crushes all of his lows.
- Always try to grab him with b+1+2 since f+2 is guaranteed afterwards.

My mixup would be a small reversal so he will be forced to use lows, then uf+4.

can can is even better as its safe

ch4 gives him a hard time
i13 df1_i12 df4 really dicks him around - his legs are too short

punish ff1+2 with df2 bith extensions are launchable
ff2 is -16 but pushback so 2,3
df3+4 -23
f3+4 -12
f1+2 -20 f4 hits more reliably than tooth fairy thanks to pushback
you get uf4 hopkick on df1+2_ws1+2,1+2,1+2_fc df1+2_debugger
punish DF with 2,3
f2 is -12
break TS with 1+2
jacks 1 throw backsplats
his uf 1+2:d,df2 throw front splats

swr in general vs jack

@jadensoral, ok got some feedback. Basic advice against yoshi. As Iron lobster said, basically everything is a setup, so when you fell you've got frames to retaliate always keep in mind you need "BIG HITBOX", because he's probably gonna keep attacking or duck and punish or whatever. Sacrifice speed for hitbox, b+4_df2 is almost always a better option than a jab string, for example.

After a while you get used to all his set-ups and punish consistently, remember yoshi has the worst backdash in tekken history so don't get to scared of having something whiff on range [1,2]. Just watch out for his sword sweep. SS cancel on him at range 0 and you'll avoid all his BT set-ups.

Awesome stuff thanks!

Your definitely right, I was loosing to him because I was too aggressive. Plus I was scared of turtling because he could just throw me and my breaking is still in the works...

Didn't realise his backdash was so bad? All great thanks again! One question though.... at range 0 isn't a normal SS always better?

Anybody got any strategies for fighting Marduk? Oh and also Miguel, I can seem to find any holes in his strings to exploit?

Last edited by jadensoral on Aug 24th, 2011 at 19:39

For Marduk:
learn how to break throws and his tackle. know what's launch punishable (VTS d1+2 and the evading launcher come to mind) and which strings are duckable

quick ss right cancels will beat a lot of his options, he has df1 but that's why you cancel the ss.

marduk has great oki. if you backroll or get up neutral he can set you up for a backroll catch or BT catch. If you lie down, he can relaunch you with a ground throw. If you techroll, he can set up a tackle right as you recover... or unblockable into VTS cancel to scare you

His u/f3 is 0 on block, it looks like a lunging knee... be weary of that. it's a very good distance closer

It's funny, my main sparring partner when I actually play the game is one of the best duk's in the country and yet I still don't know how to fight against this char. I mean I do very well against him, but I swear every duk plays different. It's one of those play the player, not the character type matchups. All you can do is learn the moveset and try best to read your opponent. learning how to tech his tackle is so important though, if you can tech at least 50% of them then you kill a big part of duk's game. Also I see players with limited knowledge not even attempt to break ground throws. it's either you mash 1 or mash 2, pick one... it's a guessing game.

Anyways, I would say it's a 5/5 matchup... Duk doesn't seem to have reliable answers to asuka's pokes and counter hits.


as for Miguel... that's just a lame matchup. he can outpoke you since he has good options with knees. he can finish strings that are block punishable or high more liberally since asuka has terrible block punishment and slow ws punishment. he has a myriad of lows that aren't easy to crush since he has so many fast mids that will float you out of the air.

magic 4 is your friend esp if he likes spamming df1 solo. df1 is i13 and 0 on block (IIRC). if he likes doing strings just block it so you can get your frames then apply offense with quick pokes... 1,3 & df1 come to mind- or perhaps even throws. I hate that you can't duck and launch his high string options like bob/law/bryan... w/e

obviously punish big mistakes like random df21, f42, b1+2,1+2. his hopkick is -14 so you can do 31 for throw damage and a couple frames or 23 for a KND or wallsplat

he's annoying but nowhere near as bad as bruce/julia or perhaps bryan. I don't have experience playing against top-tier miguels, but it seems like it's a 4/6

edit: actually magic4 is godlike against these characters... they're legs are so damn long it's impossible to not get a full combo off of it LOl

Last edited by (CHI) holli on Aug 25th, 2011 at 09:10

Thanks man. Yeah I was looking at Miguel's strings and there are no obvious points to duck except for that ff2+1. ( I think the notation is right... the mid high wiff punisher?) Oh and that Marduk headbutt. Absolutely MUST duck that attack, and try to knock him out of animal stance whenever possible.

Can you SS any of their strings like Baek's d+4,3,3,3 or Paul's ff+2,1/2?

You can break his ground juggle grabs? That's VERY good news to me

any hints vs ganryu? all advices would be appreciated

he has the best unseeable low in the whole cast...

i need help with ultra fast characters, xiao,law,nina

and also the hellsweepers

Anti-Steve Fox Strats
Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) I have had the pleasure of being mauled by Steve players in my area. I’ll give my best at tactics for anti-Steve here as he is one of our hardest match-ups. In my experience, our best bet is to try to keep him at range 4 because he likes to be in your face. If you can control your spacing well, he isn’t too scary.

2,1: normally, this is -4, but a good Steve player will always go into a stance after. This is ideal for Steve, because he can start an offense here. On block this is +3 if he goes into a stance. Don’t try to attack after this, maybe try a sw. I think waiting to see which stance your Steve player favors to base your next decision on is a good idea here. If you get hit by 2,1 (maybe after you threw out something unsafe and the Steve user chose it as a punishment option) hold back because he is at +13~14 and will get something guaranteed if you don’t hold back.

D/F+1,2,1: on block, this move is safe at - 4, but Steve can go into his flicker stance which will leave him at 0, be on the lookout for 1,d+1 here.

B+1(h): A good Steve player will not do this move its own, expect a transition. He can go into flicker or he can go into a duck cancel. This move is the equivalent (better than) of a generic magic 4 in my opinion. If you treat it that way you should be okay. Again from here, Steve players setup 1,d+1 because B+1 into flicker is -1. If you get hit by b+1 into flicker and it’s not counter hit, hold back.

F+2,1: this is another way for him to transition into flicker stance. He can also duck cancel from this. If you get hit by this he is at +19 and will hit you if you don’t hold back, and it is +5 on block. Beware as flicker and PAB mix-ups will follow.

D+2,1(l,m): many players use this as an oki option. For instance, your opponent gets a juggle on you. At the end, he may go with this option to try for a reset. By doing this, even he doesn’t get the oki. He is still in good position, to go into mix-ups. Here he can go into his ducking cancel setups.

4,1,2(m,m): this is the move that start with a shoulder bump and then goes into what sort of looks like his ducking 2. If you get hit by the 2 it is a launch; on block, it is -12 so D/F+4. However, rarely will you see a good Steve player go for this unless after a setup. Sometimes they will attempt this after 1,d+1 to counter hit bait. He can also just do the first part (4,1) and go into peekaboo here. You will probably see this more than anything. If he goes into PAB, if you blocked the shoulder, he will be at -5, on hit he is at +4.

Flicker
For this stance, do not try to parry. Both Asuka’s 2+3 and 1+3, 2+4 will not work against this stance. High crushes like d/b+1 or (if you are up for it) d/b+2 are good as well as d+4 or a crouch jab.

1,d+1 (h,h): 12 frames minus 0; He can ss or sway into shoulder launch attempt or swayR2. They are both highs, but you cannot duck the second hit. They may also delay this string to try to get you to press buttons, so be careful.
1,f+1(h,m): still at 12 frames, but now he will be at -5. This string can be delayed so beware.

Peek A Boo
In general, you want to SW to your left against this stance. This takes away a lot of his options. You can knock him out of highs so jabbing is worth a shot as well.

D+1: This is the only move in this stance that cannot be walked. It is 16 frames and +2 on hit, a lot of Steve players like to do this a few times back to back. If you catch him doing this, you can try to interrupt with a quick mid like D/F+4 or even try can-cans. With D/F+4, if you have one of those d+1 spamming Steve players, it will still hit before he can get another one out. Also, IF you choose to try and interrupt it you should be on your guard and ready to break a 1+2 throw. A throw is a good thing to try here too. Basically, something around 13 frames or lower that can knock him out of it.
If they try to mix it up D/F+4 with still beat out most options after a D+1(d/f+1 being 16 as well, D/F+2 at 17,etc), but again whenever choosing to attack him when he is in this stance, always be aware of his 10-count throw (1+2 break).

I honestly don't know if this is any good, this is just what I try to do against him. someone please correct the errors in this if this is good info, i'll continue. I bet we could carry this into tag 2!