TTT2 Tiers
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MiyusRibbons
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 208
From: United Kingdom
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#901 “Quote” Edit Post
some characters changes have been made to and some more info has been found out (like more accurate frames) so they have been jumping around the listings. as of the last few listings the movements are beginning to settle where characters move only 1-4 spots whereas they were jumping 10-20 spots while people got to grips with them.

Only Zafina, Nina, Raven and Miguel have had substantial movements recently, Raven i believe they fixed his wall combo bug and Miguels shoulder barge got nerfed(?). Nina and Zafina have been all over the place jumping high and low tiers with little reason i don't believe theres been anything changed so it probably people getting use to them and better players picking them up.

Tiers are always down to popularity more than anything, the more people that play a character the more accurate the placement will be as more information and tactics are found out about them. Pretty much the entire bottom half of the tiers stayed static from the early Nov list to the later one.

Unless someone discovers some big flaw or bug with a character we're probably gonna see a lot less movement from the coming lists, so don't hold your breath for Feng going A tier as he's been mid/low table for all but one list.
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Johnnay
Cool,Calm,Collected
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2370
From: Australia
#902 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kane
Uh who told you ninas db3 is not launch punishable?


Mwats Gwaps. He confirmed it in the Nina section of TTT2. He played the game when he went to Korea and tested Ninas d/b+3 and according to him it is still -13 on block.

Originally posted by Kane
whereas in br, it was basically a homing move.


Ninas 1+4 never homed in BR, it did track both sides but it wasnt a homing move.

Originally posted by White Angel
Nina's qcf+2 doesn't juggle anymore and it's not a tag launcher.


the person whom you quoted never mentioned that Ninas STFU Juggled.

and to the person whom you quoted, Ninas STFU isnt great anyway and definitely not a reason for Nina to be in high tier position. lol
Pixel
Xiaoyu & Raven
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1712
From: USA Georgia
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#903 “Quote” Edit Post
Nina does continue to appear strong. Her major nerf appears to be that she is no longer undisputably favored in stance character matchups. Because she no longer has one move (1+4) to shut down most stances and evasion. I can definitely breathe easier as a Xiaoyu player knowing that one of her worst nightmares is not as frightening anymore.

Forgive me Nina players, but I must celebrate.

Oh wait, I guess I celebrate alone. Because my fellow Xiao players are still crying in the corner over her own nerfs, ignoring the hidden blessings from above. Oh well, more fun for me. [song]The decade of torture is over, the decade of torture is over, the decade of torture is over, lalalala lala![/song]
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saiyuk
kansai power
Joined: Mar 2000
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#904 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Johnnay
Mwats Gwaps. He confirmed it in the Nina section of TTT2. He played the game when he went to Korea and tested Ninas d/b+3 and according to him it is still -13 on block.


he didnt confirm it at all. he said he didnt get launched when it got blocked. big difference, and one that contains large amounts of evidence that it has indeed been changed.


Ninas 1+4 never homed in BR, it did track both sides but it wasnt a homing move.


nobody said it was a homing move, he said basically a homing move, meaning that technically no, it did not possess those properties, but as you stated it tracks both sides. and it did this very well.



the person whom you quoted never mentioned that Ninas STFU Juggled.


actually the person said qcf+2 was a "safe, mid tag launcher". a launcher is a move that juggles.

please limit your mistakes per post in the future. its alot easier to dig the hole than it is to climb out of it.
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Kane
Lucky Lili
Joined: Mar 2000
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#905 “Quote” Edit Post
Johnnay:

thanks to saiyuk for clarifying and he is absolutely correct. I did not see that mawts ever tested it. his post saying "1) db+3: i've never been punished by launcher after block. i think its -13." does not sound like him ever testing it at all. just because he had never been punished by it doesn't mean anything. I am pretty sure that Tribal is not going to just hold forward or neutral after a blocked db3 only to get launched in the videos, especially more than once. that alone should be proof enough for you.

also regarding 1+4 ... saiyuk explained it quite well .. probably better than I could've said it haha
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Originally posted by Lukmendes
I honestly wonder if Kane has a list of "Why Lili sucks" on his computer, to avoid having to write the same things over and over again .
12step
Warrior
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 153
From: Germany
#906 “Quote” Edit Post
I apologize for my mistake, saying that qcf+2 does launch. I checked the official Movelist and i saw a T in the left column for qcf+2. I just looked at the wrong line. It was qcf+1 that is tag-bufferable and not qcf+2. Again: Im sorry.
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Johnnay
Cool,Calm,Collected
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2370
From: Australia
#907 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by saiyuk
he didnt confirm it at all. he said he didnt get launched when it got blocked. big difference, and one that contains large amounts of evidence that it has indeed been changed.



actually the person said qcf+2 was a "safe, mid tag launcher". a launcher is a move that juggles.

please limit your mistakes per post in the future. its alot easier to dig the hole than it is to climb out of it.


Well i dont have physical proof myself about d/b+3 bring "-13 on block" seeing as i havent played Tag 2 yet, but the guy seemed positive enough to confirm that he didnt get launched after a blocked d/b+3.

oh and about STFU, yes its safe and its a mid, but dont forget that it is no longer a launcher anymore meaning its not taggable. and that person who wrote that actually meant qcf+1 as mentioned in the post above this one.
Zero the Shadow
I <3 Australia, mate
Joined: Jun 2004
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#908 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Johnnay
Well i dont have physical proof myself about d/b+3 bring "-13 on block" seeing as i havent played Tag 2 yet, but the guy seemed positive enough to confirm that he didnt get launched after a blocked d/b+3.

oh and about STFU, yes its safe and its a mid, but dont forget that it is no longer a launcher anymore meaning its not taggable. and that person who wrote that actually meant qcf+1 as mentioned in the post above this one.


The move is launch punishable. PERIOD.
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mawts_gwaps
Raijin
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 626
From: Philippines
#909 “Quote” Edit Post
I think i'm being misquoted here, the words i typed in the nina forum are supposed to be read as what it is.

"1) db+3: i've never been punished by launcher after block. i think its -13."

no explanations needed.

I don't know if they were:
1) just slow to punish
2) the koreans i fought still weren't aware (although i fought ranks as high as berserker though)
3) it was a different version / patch (though was trying to look at version in cabinets where nobody was playing, but i couldn't find text indicating a version)

i look up to tribal as a very good player, im just saying that in the 8 straight hours i was playing, i wasn't launched.
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AssassinX
Iron Fist God
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1099
From: USA Maryland
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#910 “Quote” Edit Post
I really don't think this whole Nina discussion is necessary. AS of right now d/b+3 can be punished by a 15 frame ws launcher, there has been more proof of top Nina players in videos getting launched by opponents blocking and punishing correctly. And as far as I've seen, these were in the latest builds, not out-dated matches. There is very few people here in the forums that have even had been lucky enough to play TTT2. So all that has been discussed that has not yet been confirmed, is pure speculation.

According to Mawts it seems to me that they must have just punished the move incorrectly, or it was not the latest build, or even a new build that has d/b+3 set back to -13. It seems as of right now d/b+3 is launch punishable according to the videos and those that have said to have gotten punished by it. Now it'd be nice to get back on topic, that's why we have the Nina forum to discuss on.
The Game
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#911 “Quote” Edit Post
qcf+2 is now -9
d/b+3 is still -15

gg
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Son Of A Glitch
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#912 “Quote” Edit Post
It's team Roger-Baek for me! Yay! I'm on my way to fame!

Originally posted by TheDinosaur
....the prevalence of df+2 is still one of the things which makes the game wack.


And yet only one char, in the current S-tier, hwoarang, has df+2. Still, your point stands.

Good posts. Keep 'em coming.
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Melee_Sovereign
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Joined: Mar 2010
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#913 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm a bit worried about them making Zafina's d/f+1,2 -15 and d/f+1,2,1 -14.
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raybonekilla
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#914 “Quote” Edit Post
Poor baek. never gets a fighting chance. tag? sucked. 4? didn't exist. 5? meh. 6? good in the right hands, but still garbage and now? bottom ass tier?

They dug deep this time. Now what do Baek players love? SS fla? GONE. here's a shitty version you can only attempt after transitioning into fla on CERTAIN strings. He has ass tracking moves. Hwoarang had better follow in the footsteps of the poor guy and kill his master. Poor asshole can't take anymore abuse.

fla 33~f is gangster.
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Dilly
When in doubt, D+3+4
Joined: Sep 2007
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#915 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Son Of A Glitch
It's team Roger-Baek for me! Yay! I'm on my way to fame!



And yet only one char, in the current S-tier, hwoarang, has df+2. Still, your point stands.

Good posts. Keep 'em coming.


And Hwo has one of the worst d/f+2's in the game at that.

I don't see too much wrong with d/f+2, other than I WOULD like to see it's speed vary a bit more among the cast rather than it being the same for pretty much everyone who has it. The only real difference from one person to the next is if it's safe, if it launches crouch, or if it requires CH to launch.

Personally, I'd like to see those big range d/f+2's end up 16f, while those extremely short range d/f+2's end up i15. Maybe change up how bad they are on block as well from one character to the next. Also, big range d/f+2's should be -9 (if they're going to be safe at all) so being blocked at least guarantees your opponent a mix-up attempt that you're not just going to back-dash/side-step out of.

Then again, I'm not a d/f+2 fisherman. Even when I play Paul, I just poke until I know they won't chance a duck so I can land demo man. That plus punishment is my entire game-plan with the man, and he has one of the best d/f+2's in the game.
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Pixel
Xiaoyu & Raven
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1712
From: USA Georgia
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#916 “Quote” Edit Post
Assassinx21: Talking about Nina is off topic for tier discussion? Why?

Baek looks to still be good in Tag 2. He just requires an non-Japanese player to play him well.

At one side I think the safe d/f+2 should be removed, but I just remind myself that d/f+2 is the EWGF for non-mishima characters. At least that is the only logical explaination I can think of why Namco included the attack and kept it all these years. Makes it no less annoying to lose too or win by a half-life safe bet that can only be slightly countered by a backdash (you get more than a jab punish if you are really, really lucky). Especially when it Dhalsim's you and someone like Law can still reach for a big combo (dhalsim's = having limbs be hit). At least hopkicks can be punished and trading attacks with it usually equals bad for hopkicker. Oh, and from what I understand. Only Lee and Nina can say that their best attack is not their safe d/f+2. Every other d/f+2 user can not leave home without their d/f+2.

Again, maybe I am likely just salty about the attack. Anyway, carry on.
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Dilly
When in doubt, D+3+4
Joined: Sep 2007
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#917 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Pixel
Assassinx21: Talking about Nina is off topic for tier discussion? Why?

Baek looks to still be good in Tag 2. He just requires an non-Japanese player to play him well.

At one side I think the safe d/f+2 should be removed, but I just remind myself that d/f+2 is the EWGF for non-mishima characters. At least that is the only logical explaination I can think of why Namco included the attack and kept it all these years. Makes it no less annoying to lose too or win by a half-life safe bet that can only be slightly countered by a backdash (you get more than a jab punish if you are really, really lucky). Especially when it Dhalsim's you and someone like Law can still reach for a big combo (dhalsim's = having limbs be hit). At least hopkicks can be punished and trading attacks with it usually equals bad for hopkicker. Oh, and from what I understand. Only Lee and Nina can say that their best attack is not their safe d/f+2. Every other d/f+2 user can not leave home without their d/f+2.

Again, maybe I am likely just salty about the attack. Anyway, carry on.


Asuka has enough options that her d/f+2 isn't her life-blood as well. It's definitely not her best move, that much is for sure. Whiff punishment she's better off with f+2, and for SS~launch 1+2 usually fills for more damage and launches crouchers unless you're out of range (and that's where f+2 comes into play). In her case, d/f+2 mainly falls into punishment territory for i15.

Then again, Asuka has more than a few safe launchers and CH launchers, so she's an exception to the rule in general.
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Pixel
Xiaoyu & Raven
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1712
From: USA Georgia
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#918 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by OUTBREAK_YOKO on the TTT2 Asuka Forums
Really excited to this one.. but hey, new confirmed Asuka changes in TTT2 tested by me and my friend.

BUFFS
Sweep (3~4)~db: One of the very fastest cancels in the game. You can mixup with FR, FCdf+2 and etc.
df+1,4 : No confirmed punishments yet. [df+1],4 CH stuns on hit, but escapable.
2,1_2,3: Strings are now i12 and same - frames.
2,3: last hit now sparks, even on juggles.
ff+2,1+2: m,h New crouching move to a shoulder like f+1+2 that KNDs. high crush on the first move, NC. Doesn't jail. Safe on second move, but can be ducked when ff+2 is blocked. Can be used as a wall carrier (functions like Nina's 1,2,f+1+2)
ff+2,1: m,m same move with 1+2 - like on the second move. same properties, delayable.
d+3+4 : Second hit TRACKS her right. Tested against a Lili sidestepping.
3+4 : Now spikes instead of the still float ability.
d+1+2 : Now sparks on NH.
df+2: Sparks on CH.

NERFS
b+3 : Has no more tracking abilities, less range and pushback. Same frames and damage.
b+3,4 : Can NO longer be delayed.
d+3+4 : toned damage, can be tag assaulted.
1,3 : Still i10 but now -2 on hit and -11 on block.
[1,2],4 : Less pushback, leaving Asuka vulnerable to i12 punishments (shoulders). Even jabs can punish this now.
db+1+2 : Hits high now, doesn't hit mid (crouching opponents).

NEUTRAL
1,1,d+4 : Last hit follows the hit animation that 3~4 does. No more FDFT position.
df+1+2 : Now combos even on punch parry. If punch parry, it now gives the stun like the normal of it does. But doesn't anymore KND and wallplat.

This will be edited anytime soon.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Asuka's d/f+2, although it is actually usable in T6 unlike it was in T5DR. Anyway, let's talk about Asuka. This is what I can gather from the Asuka forums. Looks buffed to me, and not just in the breast physics.
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Dilly
When in doubt, D+3+4
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#919 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Pixel
Oh yeah, I forgot about Asuka's d/f+2, although it is actually usable in T6 unlike it was in T5DR. Anyway, let's talk about Asuka. This is what I can gather from the Asuka forums. Looks buffed to me, and not just in the breast physics.


I've gone into pretty good lengths on Asuka already in this thread.

Her biggest weakness was fixed in that hop-kicks are no longer spammable against her due to 2,3 being i12. This also opened up a few new combo possibilities and made her b+2,1,3~dash~2,1,1+2 a lot easier, and apparently now allows her to pull off 3~4, ws+4, dash 1+4, 2,1,1+2 b!. Combine that with mind games from 3~4~d/b cancels (evil at wall), and the fact that d/b+4,3_b+2,4,3 are both taggable, which allows her to tag off of any launcher that she couldn't tag off of normally (as well as tag off her wall carry ender). Just to make things clear on why this gets scary...

2+3, d/b+4,3~5 works. This gives her an unchickenable punch reversal into tag combo.

d/f+2, d/b+4,3~5 works, allowing her d/f+2 to do red bar damage unlike most of the cast.

d/b+2~5 works, so she can consistently crush highs into red bar damage.

d+3+4~5 works, meaning she can crush any low outside of JC 4~2>1 consistently for red bar damage.

1+2~5 doesn't work, but 1+2, d/b+4,3~5 fixes that issue.

d/f+1+2 now gives the same stun it game on NH when it parries lows, so Asuka is now capable of a full juggle on low parry! She can dash in d/b+4,3~5 to do red bar damage.

CH b+4, b+2,4,3~5 works for red bar damage.

f+4, d/b+4,3~5 works as well.

FR is taggable as well IIRC.

The girl is an absolute menace to society with her ability to manipulate the tag system. Combine that with her new-found ability to punish -12, and her ability to force a mix-up at wall with 3~4~d/b (u/b+4 being a safe splatting option from here that all punishment attempts whiff vs giving her a free W! anyway) and you realize that she's not going to be a push-over like we had seen in T6.

Partnered with the right team-mate (one who can maximize damage after d/b+4,3), she's going to bleed opponents dry.
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kazijana
Lone Wolf
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Finland
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#920 “Quote” Edit Post
I honestly believe some people are seriously overrating the generic d/f+2 but whatever.

Does anyone know if Leo's d/f+1,2 jails? Leo forums got nothing and I havent seen any vids of it getting ducked.
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