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psylence
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1343
From: USA Washington
PSN: compsyguy
#981 “Quote” Edit Post
K k, thanks for looking into this for me... what kind of connection do you have at work that's so terrible for watching videos? It sounds like you're on dial up or something :-p
forest16
ForestTekkenVideos
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3723
From: Canada
PSN: Forest613
XBL: ForestSkies
#982 “Quote” Edit Post
@ Galen
But the SWL df+3,2,SWL d+4,1 to flip them over (twice?) to get a full iWS+1 combo to the opposite wall and floor break should work after any wall splat. uf+3, b+2,2,2, you name it! I only wanted to discuss the wall splat flip over to opposite wall, FB! combo. That VS Marduk combo was just before it.

3,d ah ok. I should try it. VS BT db+4,3, then? Post B! VS BT b+2,2,2 was a highlight for me in that combo video.

Psylence I am curious as to why you went with 1,2,1 and df+1,2,1 so much. Non-walled stages, too? You know, just a 1,2 punches after df+3,2,SSL,b,uf+4 is great to get them that extra bit of distance to the wall. And there is nothing wrong with binding before the wall.

Holy shit, nice iWS+1 combos! You did miss some post bound iWS+1s though. Nice resets, too!

I saw alot of d+4,1~SS and almost no d+2 VS standing. d+2 is 18 points, get that money, son!

uf+1 to SS+2 was great too.

Shoutouts to df,df+1

Last edited by forest16 on Nov 15th, 2011 at 20:45

|Galen|
In iWS1 I trust!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9236
PSN: Galen-SDT
XBL: Galen SDT
#983 “Quote” Edit Post
Evan, not bad at all here we go a brief analysis.

The Good: Your iWS1s were on point and so was your throw breaking.

The Bad: you were really really loose with SS2 and yeah a lot hit but a lot more were blocked and you should have eaten -12 a lot more than you did. Also Forest is absolutely right d+4,1 was used way way way too much but not a single person was punishing it, so by all means keep using it. You also misjudged the wall quite a few times in all of the videos you posted. Sometimes it's either better to play it safe and SSL1~f WS1 f+1,2,f+1+2 as wall carry or even just a simple f+1,2 and if you're second guessing it just B! early. Yeah you might look like you're wasting a wall bound but at least you're playing it safe and getting a much damage as you can without the huge risk of dropping a combo.

Against Julia you didn't seem to know how to punish her very well. Also you ducked ff+1,4 a LOT and only punished with WS1,1+2 instead of WS2.

Against Miguel... A lot of people that play him and Nina say they play a LOT a like. So against him learn his pokes and move/punish accordingly. His d/f+1 is a lot more beasty than Nina's but you are free to SSL2 instead of SSR2. I know it's gonna be hard to leave the damage from SSR2 but against Miguel you have to SSL2 to avoid that 0 on block d/f+1. His hopkick is -14. Make sure you're ducking and launching his lows they are slow enough to block on reaction. He was getting away with blocked WS2,1's they don't jail so you can duck and WS1 or duck and WS2.



TEXT ME FOO!!! (Check your PM's)


ON A SIDE NOTE!!!
Forest... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uDhQzLYOAM&t=7m4s There he would have been able to do a deep SSL d/f+3,2 SSL~f iWS1x4 (or to the wall) OR could have done a deep SSL d/f+3,2 SSL~b u/f+4 iWS1x3 (or to the wall) There wouldn't have been a need for the d+4,1 and the flip over or anything like that. BUT it has to be the side or the face to the wall for the SSL d/f+3,2 combos to work.

Last edited by |Galen| on Nov 16th, 2011 at 06:38

Signature In iWS1 I trust!
Battle Jitni- @Galen: (imagine that's a middle finger instead)
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psylence
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1343
From: USA Washington
PSN: compsyguy
#984 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for the feed back guys!

Forest: I did a lot of 1,2,1 and df+1,2,1 because it hits people... especially if you delay the last hit. If they start ducking the last 1, you can mix it up with 1,2,3:1+2 for a good chunk of damage.

I did make a mistake staying on an open stage... I was thinking (not clearly obviously) that the open stage would be better for my resets... but on review, I really should have changed stages.

Speaking of the resets... I really like that reset, since it usually works out in Nina's favor... and after the 1st reset, people really don't want to try to get up, so they'll just eat the ff+1+2 when you go for it again.

I don't use d+2 as much as I should because I've been really bad at spacing it... I always try to do it a bit too far out and they back dash out of it. That's why I did it against SuperJoe to finish him off, his back was to the wall and couldn't escape. But it is something that I want to get better at.

I'm also normally really good at reading where the walls are... I was just at a few odd angles/spaces on those.

By the time I was missing the iWS+1's post bound, I think I was already beat by then... This was my first time getting this far at a major(ish) tournament, so I think my nerves finally got to me.

I like the uf+1, ss+2 setup. It catches a lot of people

Galen: I know I'm way too loose with ss+2... I'm usually a lot worse then that, but I was really holding back except for those times I was *sure* it would hit.

I did lose a round against Julia when I did d+4,1~d... as soon as I did it I knew it was the wrong thing to do...

I've gotten out of the habit of trying to do WS+2 punishes because I kept on whiffing because of the range... that was another thing that right after I did it, I knew I should have done better. I didn't punish Julia's FC,df+4 because in the past I've tried and WS+1 will whiff unless you're pretty close. Is there another punisher I could use for that?

Good info on vs Miguel, I don't have a lot of Miguel practice, so that was a tough fight. I didn't know his hopkick is -14... that's really good to know... the slow lows are one of my weaknesses, I've been working on them, but until I get a good amount of actual fight practice on them, I keep being too slow on the block.
|Galen|
In iWS1 I trust!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9236
PSN: Galen-SDT
XBL: Galen SDT
#985 “Quote” Edit Post
If you want to tighten up your SS2s use it as a whiff punisher by doing empty side steps and if they whiff hit 2. Benefits from doing this? You don't eat CH if they do a tracking move. You have way way way less SS2s get blocked AND if they don't attack it leaves you the option to mix things up.

Punish her FC d/f+4 with WS4... As for ff+1,4 you're not gonna whiff the WS2 unless they completely whiffed the ff+1,4 from half way across the screen. So if you blocked the ff+1 the 4 will bring them forward enough that the 2 won't whiff.
Signature In iWS1 I trust!
Battle Jitni- @Galen: (imagine that's a middle finger instead)
Mr. Taxi- "Galen, I don't consider you an Anna player. I have this theory that all Anna players like penis. So until you S a D you aren't an Anna player"
Dilly a couple months after he found out he was expecting- "Galen, Sith, in 9 months I'm challenging you both to diaper matches. Loser buys diapers for the winner. "
forest16
ForestTekkenVideos
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3723
From: Canada
PSN: Forest613
XBL: ForestSkies
#986 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by |Galen| [...] AND if they don't attack it leaves you the option to mix things up.
Julia seems like she is very safe at times when you would expect her to be worse on block.
http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/ju...ken-6-frame-dat

FC df+4 is -14 on block and -3 on hit and counter, FC df+4,3 is -16 ~ -12. Whatever that means.

Wang Jinrei's FC df+4 is the same frame data http://www.avoidingthepuddle.com/wa...ken-6-frame-dat

Yeah, I also have very little faith in Nina's WS+2, but that is when the crouch cancel comes in. Nina has 15f and 16f standing launchers. But I can totally sympathize with you. Nina's WS+1,1+2 is a good punish just the same, and has great range, knocks down for OKI.

Nina does have a mini crouch dash from FC, the same as Law and Lee's from FC. Law and Lee do it with FC df,d,df, but Nina can do it just by doing FC DF. So, try FC DF,N+2.

I did not think anybody used df+1,2,3:1+2! I would personally steer clear of that whole strat, both options are very unsafe, df+1,2,3 is -14 and df+1,2,1 is high, but, up to you. Better is: df+1,2, SW, df+1,2 and mix in a db+3 to make them freak out, lolz. Totally Galen's strat, not mine.

If you get them to block a df+4, the pushback puts them at the exact perfect range for an immediate d+2 or 1+4 followup mixup.

If you are throwing them alot with the scary df,df+1 throw and they duck after df+1, do 1+4. More 1+4 in general, imho. Good use of f+3 though.

I am impressed at Galen's knowledge of Miguel, but I believe it is WS+2,2,2 Trinity Slash 14,14,25 m,h,m that Galen means. Many great players think that Miguel's db+1 is unseeable. I think you can see it, but it is hard to react to. His FC df+4 has very long range, too. His df+1+2 throw is very good too.

@ Galen yes I know, that angle is not too hard to SWL to df+3,2 full combo from. I think I even did that kind of a combo in some of our matches.

But I tried to get that uf+3, SWL, df+3,2~SWL, d+4,1 to all hit and flip them over to get them to FUFT position for a full juggle...and it worked for me! Seriously, try this, dude! This is kinda broken. Hard, but broke. You can do the iWS+1 combos, so you should be able to do this easily, right? Break that floor way over on the other wall and get that money!

Do you use df+1+2 much, psylence? 16f, but that speed is really the only thing that might be bad about this move.
|Galen|
In iWS1 I trust!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9236
PSN: Galen-SDT
XBL: Galen SDT
#987 “Quote” Edit Post
Ahhh yeah... WS2,2,2... I really don't know most characters inputs I just know what the move looks like and how to deal with the shit. LOL
A reason they might say it's unseeable is because it can be hidden into movement and it instant high crushes just like Nina's WTF BUT the thing with it is that even if you hide it with his movement it still telegraphs quite a bit.


As for the u/f+3 W! combo I'll have to try it... That's a really low risk high reward launcher if it is stapleable. Did you have to start a tiny bit off axis left?
Signature In iWS1 I trust!
Battle Jitni- @Galen: (imagine that's a middle finger instead)
Mr. Taxi- "Galen, I don't consider you an Anna player. I have this theory that all Anna players like penis. So until you S a D you aren't an Anna player"
Dilly a couple months after he found out he was expecting- "Galen, Sith, in 9 months I'm challenging you both to diaper matches. Loser buys diapers for the winner. "
psylence
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1343
From: USA Washington
PSN: compsyguy
#988 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by |Galen|
If you want to tighten up your SS2s use it as a whiff punisher by doing empty side steps and if they whiff hit 2. Benefits from doing this? You don't eat CH if they do a tracking move. You have way way way less SS2s get blocked AND if they don't attack it leaves you the option to mix things up.

Punish her FC d/f+4 with WS4... As for ff+1,4 you're not gonna whiff the WS2 unless they completely whiffed the ff+1,4 from half way across the screen. So if you blocked the ff+1 the 4 will bring them forward enough that the 2 won't whiff.


When I do my ss+2's I usually wait until I see/hear that they're going to do *something*... I've found that if I wait to see the whiff, If they just do a single jab, I'm not fast enough.

I mentally know I can launch Julia's ff+1,4 with WS+2.... it was just in the heat of the battle, and muscle memory that I need to get over.

Forest: If people aren't punishing df+1,2,1 and 1,2,1, then I'll go ahead and keep using them... you just can't be predictable with them.

I've done df+4, d+2 before and I often whiff... I might be doing df+4 farther our then you though...

When I'm doing my rushdown, and I'm mixing up 1, df+1, df,df+1,db+3, d+4, etc I usually don't like doing 1+4, since if they block, it stops momentum... and f,f,df+1 is actually a really good tracking move. I've actually been almost behind someone and still got hit by that move.

Doing a mini crouch dash into WS+2 wouldn't be any better then just doing CC~b+1+4.

I hardly ever use df+1+2. The range on it isn't that good, and the stun is escape-able... I'd usually rather just do 1+4 or f,f,df+1.
|Galen|
In iWS1 I trust!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9236
PSN: Galen-SDT
XBL: Galen SDT
#989 “Quote” Edit Post
You know what they NEED to do? They need to make both Nina's and Anna's QCF cancelable with ~u...

QCF~u QCF~u... I think that would be nice of namco to do...
Signature In iWS1 I trust!
Battle Jitni- @Galen: (imagine that's a middle finger instead)
Mr. Taxi- "Galen, I don't consider you an Anna player. I have this theory that all Anna players like penis. So until you S a D you aren't an Anna player"
Dilly a couple months after he found out he was expecting- "Galen, Sith, in 9 months I'm challenging you both to diaper matches. Loser buys diapers for the winner. "
|Galen|
In iWS1 I trust!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9236
PSN: Galen-SDT
XBL: Galen SDT
#990 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by forest16
FC df+4 is -14 on block and -3 on hit and counter, FC df+4,3 is -16 ~ -12. Whatever that means.



This means that the second hit has multiple active frames. Meaning it can hit you on frames x-y.
For example say it goes like this [FC d/f+4]3 and the 3 hits late in the animation. Julia will still recover at the same time in terms of her execution but it hit Nina later than it could have. If that doesn't make sense hit me up in a PM and I'll break it down some more.
Signature In iWS1 I trust!
Battle Jitni- @Galen: (imagine that's a middle finger instead)
Mr. Taxi- "Galen, I don't consider you an Anna player. I have this theory that all Anna players like penis. So until you S a D you aren't an Anna player"
Dilly a couple months after he found out he was expecting- "Galen, Sith, in 9 months I'm challenging you both to diaper matches. Loser buys diapers for the winner. "
psylence
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1343
From: USA Washington
PSN: compsyguy
#991 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by |Galen|
You know what they NEED to do? They need to make both Nina's and Anna's QCF cancelable with ~u...

QCF~u QCF~u... I think that would be nice of namco to do...


Either that, or cancel it with db: QCF~db...

but I too would like her QCF cancelable... it would make her QCF+1 launcher viable.
|Galen|
In iWS1 I trust!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9236
PSN: Galen-SDT
XBL: Galen SDT
#992 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, no kidding!!! I think it would be freakin sweet!!! Ohhh did you add me on PSN for our hawt date??? I don't take too kidnly to learning new characters, but I think I will be able to cope with this. I was planning on picking up another just mess around with character anyway, but it was going to be Drag and not Miguel, but I'm down for Miguel!!!

HAWT DATE HERE I COME!
Signature In iWS1 I trust!
Battle Jitni- @Galen: (imagine that's a middle finger instead)
Mr. Taxi- "Galen, I don't consider you an Anna player. I have this theory that all Anna players like penis. So until you S a D you aren't an Anna player"
Dilly a couple months after he found out he was expecting- "Galen, Sith, in 9 months I'm challenging you both to diaper matches. Loser buys diapers for the winner. "
psylence
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1343
From: USA Washington
PSN: compsyguy
#993 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by |Galen|
Yeah, no kidding!!! I think it would be freakin sweet!!! Ohhh did you add me on PSN for our hawt date??? I don't take too kidnly to learning new characters, but I think I will be able to cope with this. I was planning on picking up another just mess around with character anyway, but it was going to be Drag and not Miguel, but I'm down for Miguel!!!

HAWT DATE HERE I COME!


I haven't added you up yet... I was busy with a session at my place last night (I host weekly-ish sessions)...

But I was working on Miguel last night, and he's hella easy... I just needed to look up his punishers...

But the thing that I found most annoying about Miguel, is that his jabs are deceptively short range... Not sure when I'll be available to play though.. I'm usually not on until 11pm these days... got too much work to do.
|Galen|
In iWS1 I trust!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9236
PSN: Galen-SDT
XBL: Galen SDT
#994 “Quote” Edit Post
Miguel is a queer! Just look at his outfit in the opening video. Maybe him and Lee will hook up and both get AIDS! *toats to hoping*

I haven't been on either. I went to work Tuesday at 4AM and didn't get home until Wednesday at 9PM then I was back at work at 530 this morning. OOOOHHH YEAH!
Signature In iWS1 I trust!
Battle Jitni- @Galen: (imagine that's a middle finger instead)
Mr. Taxi- "Galen, I don't consider you an Anna player. I have this theory that all Anna players like penis. So until you S a D you aren't an Anna player"
Dilly a couple months after he found out he was expecting- "Galen, Sith, in 9 months I'm challenging you both to diaper matches. Loser buys diapers for the winner. "
psylence
Iron Fist God
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1343
From: USA Washington
PSN: compsyguy
#995 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by |Galen|
Miguel is a queer! Just look at his outfit in the opening video. Maybe him and Lee will hook up and both get AIDS! *toats to hoping*


??
|Galen|
In iWS1 I trust!
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9236
PSN: Galen-SDT
XBL: Galen SDT
#996 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm going to learn him... I just don't like him.

Anyway, I'm going to open up a new thread... this one is FULL!!!
Signature In iWS1 I trust!
Battle Jitni- @Galen: (imagine that's a middle finger instead)
Mr. Taxi- "Galen, I don't consider you an Anna player. I have this theory that all Anna players like penis. So until you S a D you aren't an Anna player"
Dilly a couple months after he found out he was expecting- "Galen, Sith, in 9 months I'm challenging you both to diaper matches. Loser buys diapers for the winner. "

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