TTT2 Alisa New Moves and Properties

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Brennan
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 224
From: Brazil
PSN: Hyann
#21 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by subjugator
her back up stance in action


Being more specific, let's take a note on 4:50 (Boot to Back-up).

The cancel is decently fast, and Alisa moves quite a bit backwards too, making her not-to unsafe against a sidewalking opponent. We're yet to discover if the new Back-Up stance moves have any kind of tracking - if at least one of them tracks a little bit, we can start to use Boot more often without too much risks - since no matter how poor the mixups may be, they're still a mixup.

Either way, if Alisa can recover crouching in db+1 (like in BR, if you don't input anything), we can use either ws 1+2 (which now tracks both ways, and we can still delay it [plus it's safe]) or FC df+1+2 for more mixups.


Things do look good in my book. Japan just hates Alisa for some reason. Back in early BR, she was shitty tier for the same reasons (lack of understanding of the character), while late in BR, she was still hated by how much "boring" she was.


Alisa has the solid tools to be at worst a solid mid-tier. Shame that no one here at TZ is playing the game with her at the moment.

Last edited by Brennan on Sep 27th, 2011 at 14:43

rollyourmother
1st Dan
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12
#22 “Quote” Edit Post
Neither of the new back stance moves track pretty much at all. But yeah she still recovers crouching so ws1+2 works fine.

The 3 is nice because you can just sort of throw it out. It's safe, but no advantage or anything. The 4 is basically if you confirm that they whiffed something on your d/b+1 you get a fat launcher.
Brennan
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From: Brazil
PSN: Hyann
#23 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey rollyourmother, do you have your hands in the game? (since you posted a juggle with her and Jack and all).

If so, please fill us with more stuff about her.


So, there's nothing free if db+1~3 connects on hit (or CH)? Well... at least is good to know that Back-up 4 is a solid way to punish high moves in a semi-reliable way in the stance (especially with Boot cancel).


Also, if you B! the opponent into the wall pretty close and wants to enter DES, d+2.4~1+2 may be better than 2.3 now if you want a little extra damage. Since you also can opt to not enter into DES after the move, you can also make people guess a little more.
rollyourmother
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#24 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah I'm living in Japan, so I go play the game after work a lot now. I'm just going to throw a disclaimer out there and say that I'm not super great at tekken or anything. Played 6 pretty casually, but now I'm trying to take this one a little more seriously. So I'll try and post up what I can, but I might be a little slower to pick up on stuff than someone else would.
SSJ-Luffy
Destroyer
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 366
From: Germany
PSN: SSJ-Luffy
#25 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by rollyourmother
Yeah I'm living in Japan, so I go play the game after work a lot now. I'm just going to throw a disclaimer out there and say that I'm not super great at tekken or anything. Played 6 pretty casually, but now I'm trying to take this one a little more seriously. So I'll try and post up what I can, but I might be a little slower to pick up on stuff than someone else would.


Did you see other Alisas? I would like to hear more info about her db+1 stance. How would you or other Alisas descibe her new gameplan, if they figured it out? Is basic-turtle style Alisa still possible?
Signature Touhou addicted Tekken player.
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ArcF5
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From: United States
#26 “Quote” Edit Post
Cute Jack-6/Alisa animation:

On the Christmas Stage, if you lose, during the countdown Alisa and Jack play in the snow.
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rollyourmother
1st Dan
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12
#27 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by SSJ-Luffy
Did you see other Alisas? I would like to hear more info about her db+1 stance. How would you or other Alisas descibe her new gameplan, if they figured it out? Is basic-turtle style Alisa still possible?


I haven't seen any other Alisas yet. As far as gameplan goes, db+1 stance is my new fall back plan. Just duck around and use the db+1,3 and ws1+2 to keep them from just ducking and maybe fish for hits, then db+1,1 on block is great for db+3 setups. And of course df+2 is still pretty safe and a bunch of dmg.

So long story short, back up stance is good, and yeah, I've been turtling pretty hard.
Brennan
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Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Brazil
PSN: Hyann
#28 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for your input, rollyourmother - would you be so kindly to take some requests of us?


~


- Since you're veryfing the Back-up Stance, could you pay attention when opponent steps any of the follow-ups? I really want to be sure of the tracking proprieties of the moves (even if they don't have any at all). Back-up 3 seems at least to lack any tracking to her left, since Drag stepped it early and completaly avoided it.


- Still on Back-up Stance: according to inatekken, Back-up 4 launcher is only jab punishable (at -11) - can you also note if there's any pushback or whatever on block (anything that can make the move a little harder to punish?). Again, just to be sure and all.


- More of Back-up Stance: Back-up 4 is also a taggable launcher. Could you test it and see if the results are good, regarding the red damage?


- Could you test both d+2.4~1+2 (to enter DES) on post-wall bound? The situation already works in BR, so it's just to be safe again. In situations that ff+3.4.4 could not connect (like after a raw uf+4.4 on the wall), d+2.4 could be the wall bound ender of choice, since you can opt to enter DES or not, enforcing a mixup.


- b+3+4.3+4 is also a taggable launcher, but it also B! immediately. Could you test it regarding tagging in? Since it B!s, I'm not so sure if tagging in after the move is treated as a Tag Assault or like a regular juggle-tag in (just check the red health [both yours and opponent's]).


- In this video, we can see a new possible juggle for her ws 2 (which may be even a little easier to do) - ws 2 - f+3+4~Dual Boot 2.1 - B!. On the plus side, you can cancel DES inputting 1+2 right afterwards, allowing you to to a regular bound ender of choice (similarly to DES uf+1+2).

Can you check this juggle for us and compare the damage with her ws 2 regular combo (ws 2 - 3+4~Boot 3 - ws 4 - b+2.1 B!) and tagging in after the launcher? (chances are that tagging in after ws 2 is better due to removing red health, but it's always nice to test things)


- ws 1.2.3 is also a taggable "launcher". The string is still the same as in BR? (kinda doubtful that is now NCC, but we never know until we try).


- For the last one, can you try talk with some players regarding her and all? Is always nice to hear inputs for other people who have their hands on the game.




I know, it's a lot of stuff, so take your time. And thanks in advance for inputting your experiences to us here.

~

Also, some minor corrections: inatekken and their forums says that wr 2 is still +4 on block.

And dear jtchinoy, whenever you update the OP, do add the changes of both her ws 1+2 and Boot 2~1+2 (to enter DES), plus her taggable launchers.

Last edited by Brennan on Sep 28th, 2011 at 16:11

rollyourmother
1st Dan
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12
#29 “Quote” Edit Post
Things I know off the top of my head already:

There's no pushback on the db+1,4 You end up standing right next to them. I'm actually surprised it's that safe, it doesn't seem like it should be. Maybe i'll have to try using that more.

b+3+4,3+4 - The first hit is taggable. If you just do b+3+4,5, you get a tag launcher. If you try to do it after the second hit, you get a tag assault.

Other than that, I'll try to test the stuff when I can. Every once in a while I wish there were less people playing this game so I could get some practice in arcade mode in :-)
Brennan
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Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Brazil
PSN: Hyann
#30 “Quote” Edit Post
Thank you for your time and inputs, rollyourmother. I count with you with more updates in the future. Good luck with the testing.


Also, just another thing: db+3 is now -2 on hit (instead of +0 at BR). We can see here that right afterwards a db+3, Alisa tried a uf+4.4, but Nina interrupted her with df+1+2 (which is i16) - inatekken also listed the change, but I'm just confirming it here.

Last edited by Brennan on Sep 29th, 2011 at 01:57

SSJ-Luffy
Destroyer
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From: Germany
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#31 “Quote” Edit Post
rollyourmother, can you try this:

d/f+2, b+3+4~5, Tag Combo
Just curious, if this one will work and if the Tag out is fast enough.
Signature Touhou addicted Tekken player.
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Brennan
Virtuoso
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 224
From: Brazil
PSN: Hyann
#32 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by SSJ-Luffy
rollyourmother, can you try this:

d/f+2, b+3+4~5, Tag Combo
Just curious, if this one will work and if the Tag out is fast enough.


Even if the Tag is fast enough, df+2 doesn't launch very high - by the tiem you input the b+3+4, the opponent already touches the ground. :c


Also, seems that a b+3+4.3+4 (first part whiffed) still causes a regular bounce (not a B!) on hit (as seen in here). Can you test if we can Tag in the second hit of b+3+4.3+4 in these conditions, to verify if we can do a regular Tag to combo in, rollyourmother? If so, things are starting to get a little better.


Also, from the same vid, we can see her new DES b+2.1 move. (the second hit seems a special mid for some reason)


By the way, regarding her f+4.1.4 as a bound ender... where is confirmed that the string is less damaging than her old staple ones (ff+2.3 and uf+3.2) when used in juggles? From a few vids, the damage on f+4.1.4 is at least on par with uf+3.2 - which isn't bad at all.
JTchinoy
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#33 “Quote” Edit Post
I just took Kane's word for it that it's not as strong as ff+2,3. It doesn't seem that strong either, but it's flashy as hell.
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Brennan
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From: Brazil
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#34 “Quote” Edit Post
Seems that ws 1+2 (at least the charged one) now also wall splats.

Also, CH 1.1 doesn't cause knockdown anymore - unlike in the early TTT2 build.

Last edited by Brennan on Sep 30th, 2011 at 22:51

rollyourmother
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12
#35 “Quote” Edit Post
Ok a couple quick updates for things I learned.

Hitting the second hit of b+3+4,3+4 is really hard. As soon as anybody sees the first hit come out, they uf,n,4. Not sure if this will work out too well.

Also, the b+3+4 doesn't work very well for tags mid combo. It gives like no lift, an a bunch of knockback, it's really hard to hit after tagging off it mid combo.

The new ws2 into dual boot combos do a bunch of dmg, look really cool, and have consuderably less hard timing than the old bnb. I guess it'll just depend how much dmg you can get off of tagging, because tag combos pretty much just don't give you any red life. Play it by ear.
St. George
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#36 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Brennan
Seems that ws 1+2 (at least the charged one) now also wall splats.

Also, CH 1.1 doesn't cause knockdown anymore - unlike in the early TTT2 build.


It never did, you're confusing it with 1>CH1.
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desariel
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#37 “Quote” Edit Post
I think the 1,1 (ch) can be very useful if u still can delay the second 1.
St. George
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#38 “Quote” Edit Post
Or it could, you know, give them a lot more time to react and duck it.
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Brennan
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From: Brazil
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#39 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by St. George
It never did, you're confusing it with 1>CH1.


So, it's a delayed hit that causes the knockdown? Didn't knew that (people only noted that 1.1 CH caused knockdown on the second hit, without telling any specifics). Thanks Cheyne.


@rollyourmother - Thank you also for all of your inputs. Seems that picking a partner to suit Alisa's juggles will be at least, a bit demanding. Glad to know about the new possible BnB of ws 2 too.

Last edited by Brennan on Oct 1st, 2011 at 22:24

rollyourmother
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 12
#40 “Quote” Edit Post
Alright, sorry for the sporadic info here, but I haven't had a lot of time to make it to the arcades lately.

ws2,5 is cool, but the problem is that ws2 knocks back a considerable distance, so it can be kind of hard to juggle off of it depending. Alisa can do a ton of damage with her new dual boot 2,1 combos (even with no tag assault, you get ws2, dual boot 2,1 dual boot 2), whereas you have to dash forwards off of a tag and hit something quick into a combo with your partner, but depending on what you can get, no red life makes it worth it.

d/b+1,4 - this move is good and not so good. I was really trying to work with it last time I was out. After the backup, she shoots mostly straight up into the air, which makes the range on it deceptively short, so even though it's not launcher punishable, whiffing is a concern. Basically this becomes a tech crouch / high crush launcher if you can call something. As far as what you can get off of it, you get less (from what I could get) than off of a regular d/f+2. You can't get a b+1 because it's too slow. You can either hit just a 1 into whatever, or (what I've been doing) an iws1,2 into the rest of her bnb similar to a d+3+4.

Also, b+3 is awesome. That is all.

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