Yoshi in BR [FAQ 1st post] (updated:3/18/09)

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Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#781 “Quote” Edit Post
u/f+3+4 weren't part of my style at all in Tekken DR (used it more in Tekken 5.0), that's why I can't tell if I see any difference, but now the series feel boosted.
I especially like u/f+3+4,3+4, then u/f+3+4,d+3+4, then classic u/f+3+4,b+1,(extensions), I use it often in open fight.

Is a whole u/f+3+4,d+1+2 guaranteed on grounded opponents or can it be quickrolled?

Do you use u/f+3+4,u+3+4?
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NoodleHead
will touch u gently
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17047
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TastyPPJuice
#782 “Quote” Edit Post
I used to use u/f+3+4 u+3+4 against grounded opponent. My main usage w/ u/f+3+4 is still primarily toward the grounded opponent, so I don't have much experience in using it against a standing opponent either.


u/f+3+4 "d+1+2" whiffs post B!. In fact, most of the d+1+2 whiffs in some really weird sense.

My friend (ironzen) likes doing any juggles that leads to B! into f+3+4 fle dash. If opponent hits the wall as the result, FLE u/f will catch opponent that does anything. It's a weird tech catch. If you are close to the wall, then you would have to FLE u instead.

Nevertheless, the FLE hit"frame" is pretty awkward in this game. It's not as consistent as it used to.... actually, scrape that. It has always been inconsistent lol.


1ss flash into d+1+2~3+4 gives a classic yoshi okizeme position. Though the damage isn't as good as a full juggle, we might be able to take advantage in this situation here.

Last edited by NoodleHead on Dec 16th, 2009 at 19:30

HeartHunter
Legend
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 503
From: Singapore
#783 “Quote” Edit Post
MED 3 for me is mostly as a BT~MED (i.e. after accidentally floating hopkickers from ws+2,1~ or BT 3), sometimes as oki tool, its range is slightly further than getup kick i think.

I'm not quite sure either but u/f+3+4 seems to have some distance tracking (not homing properties) on BR, it would hit rather well on sleeping opponents at all possible distances (like u/f+1+2~d), sometimes even causing a BT hit (@_@)

u/f+3+4 for me is mostly on sleeping opponents, however against opponents who tech often d/b+3s all the way.

A trivia thing for u/f+3+4, seems like u/f+3+4,b+1,3+4_4 are all guaranteed on counterhit(?). And when near wall, sometime the whole string even hit opponents behind Yoshi (u/f+3+4,b+1,4).

u/f+3+4, d+1+2 do not whiff as much post B! near wall tho.

2nd stomp of u/f+3+4, 3+4 is techable after first hit (on grounded opponents), beware....

Basically at wall you can experiment with W! f+1+2 B! d/f+1, u/f+3+4,b+1,4

the whole string after d/f+1 is techable, but if opponent tech wrongly, gets to 'eat' the whole string, leading to a free BT d+1 (or ~3+4 MED 3 if opponent is 'stoned' from seeing Yoshi doing a backturned juggle)

not too good for a 'neta' move (compared to Nina and such), you could also try post wall bounce ~SS+1~SS tricks, but I doubt it works better than the cartwheel stomp series.
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amphreded
Iron Fist God
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1960
From: Thailand
PSN: amphreded
#784 “Quote” Edit Post
Regarding d/b+2. This move by itself should be very sparsely used in open game. Spam 1,2,1,4,2 series if your opponent still doesn't learn how to duck, free d/b+2 on block to sword sweep_u/f+3_u/f+4 mixup. f+2,d/b+2 I would not recommend this. The other way to get d/b+2 to block in IND+2, which I also do sparsely after oki, or after Yoshi is KND from afar, you press 3+4 to recover IND and then use IND+2 to bait opponent. Since opponent is likely to be careful on IND+3,3+4 and IND teleport, IND+2 either on block or whiff will give you mind advantage when using as such. Just learn the spacing well, which characters can do what against Yoshi IND from afar, midrange, close range, etc. Against characters like the williams, Asuka, Lars, I would refrain from using IND because of their fast pickup moves that continue into B!
Anyway, the only effective way to get d/b+2 to block is 1,2,1,4,2... If your opponent still get CH by 1,2,1, then don't continue and go for u/f+1 guaranteed damage. If they still haven't learn to duck the string, mixup this:
1) 1,2,1,4,2,(2_2) on block into sword sweep_u/f+3_u/f+4 mixup
2) 1,2,1,4,2,(2_2) into ws+1,1,(b+3_4)
3) attempt the whole 10 hit full string. Opponent can interrupt Yoshi at: 1,2,1,4,2,2,2,4,[interrupt here],1,1. If they try to hit Yoshi after the last 2, the 4 will CH and last 1,1 unblockable is guaranteed. Of course, don't ever do this again when opponent learns to interrupt you everytime. But you should drop this string altogether when opponent learns to duck/crush the 3rd or 4th high in this 10 strings.


Regarding IND teleport, this move seems slower to me as well, but since d/f+2,2 and cd+1 both have good range, it's easier for Yoshi to punish and gain good damage after successful teleport in BR. Overally, I think teleport is better in BR than DR, but you can't throw it as much as before.
Also, if opponent moves too far away for both d/f+2,2 and cd+1 or even b+2,1 to connect after successful teleport, try using qcf+1. It's not guaranteed if opponent recovers fast enough to initiate ss from BT, or if they get smart and does backward jump kick... but chances are you'll get away with this several times.


Regarding u/f+3+4. u/f+3+4 on hit to d+1+2 is consistent. It's just that you have to wait, not pressing any button right after Yoshi goes into FLE otherwise moves would whiff.
u/f+3+4~d+1+2, u+3+4 does good damage, but timing is a bit tight. You can also tech roll right after u+3+4 to pressure opponent more. 43 dmg
u/f+3+4~d+1+2, 3+4 like Noodle said, has good post-positioning.
u/f+3+4~d+1+2, ff, FLE+2 is rather consistent and does decent damage. 42 dmg I think
u/f+3+4~d+1+2, 1+2 also gives good positioning
u/f+3+4~d+1+2, 1+2, d+4 easy and 39 dmg
u/f+3+4~d+1+2, 1+2, d/b+4_d/b+3,(3),3 both works if you timing the FLE+1+2 well. d/b+4 one does 43 dmg, and d/b+3(3)3 one does 44 dmg I think and option to go into IND with good spacing.

The one I use most though if u/f+3+4~d+1+2, 1+2 (yup old regular one) because it gives best positioning like FLE 3+4, but with better recovery. The next one I use is FLE u+3+4 because of the damage it gives, and since teching right after gives good mind advantage as well. And if you happen to whiff u+3+4 (i.e. wrong timing), if opponent doesn't tech and stay on ground, it hits for more damage too. Also after u+3+4 Yoshi can go into IND and do KND b+3+4 (though don't use the latter against any decent player, since it will be stepped and punished).

Regarding using u/f+3+4 in open play. Yes I do this myself sometimes. I used to do this a lot. Especially I use u/f+3+4 post B! to initiate mixup. B! u/f+3+4~d+1+2 to FLE u+3+4 against sleepers or delayed FLE+2 to catch siderollers or just FLE+1 roll forward to sword sweep_u/f+3_u/f+4_ws+1,1 mixup.
Now however I never seem to use u/f+3+4 post B! anymore.. not sure why, it's still a good post-B! option.
I do use u/f+3+4,3+4 and u/f+3+4,u+3+4 as mixup sometimes. Both are great. 3+4 version crushes high and gives big launch while u+3+4 will evade lows and plenty of mids and gives juggles as well, not to mention it gives +frame though it's steppable. u/f+3+4,b+1 is very good, and I love getting free b+1 on block because opponent either doesn't react duck against this yet (since I use this sparringly) and some might fear getting launched by 3+4. u/f+3+4,b+1 on block to qcb+1+2_regular throws is among my favorite mixups. And once opponent learns to duck or try to interrupt (i.e. sit jab), u/f+3 right in front of their face. The b+1 part also tracks sidesteppers too, although rarely anyone would step u/f+3+4 series, considering we Yoshi players use this only once in a while.

Well, u/f+3+4, d/b+2 and IND teleport can be useful but can be omitted completely from your game. I do them only when have chance. Exception is u/f+3+4,b+1,4, which should be used on opponent lying down near wall whenever possible for damage.

Last edited by amphreded on Dec 17th, 2009 at 05:08

Inca
(=' 3 ')=
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1524
From: USA Florida
PSN: xxIncaxx
#785 “Quote” Edit Post
only time I use u/f+3+4 is when someone is charging at me for a shoulder tackle. lol goes right over them lol. you'll still eat a hop kick if they go for it tho. oh I use it on people who never get off the floor. Mainly u/f+3+4~d+1+2~b to cancel after the flea hits once into standing and if they tech do a sword sweep(has a tendancy to whiff at times, if you do it slightly slow they can hopkick you out of the sweep), if they roll back cd+1 and if they stay down u+1 or u/b+1 depending on what size your opponent is.
Signature slaughtering you with love taps.
Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#786 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for the large input, gonna definitely focus on FLE more.

I'll also check if u/f+3+4,b+1,(4/3+4) is guaranteed on CH, if yes, then it's very good!

Also, I've used u/f+3+4,b+1,3+4 as a flash bait sometimes, especially in NSS (but tend to work in 1SS as well). It forces opponent to crouch and I think it has very good frames on block. If my opponent rushes after it, he gets hit by a flash.
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Inca
(=' 3 ')=
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1524
From: USA Florida
PSN: xxIncaxx
#787 “Quote” Edit Post
just had a MED 3 launch on a non fatty. it was vs another yoshi player, online of all things. I did med and he tried a 1SS f+3+4 and I went for the med 3 and it launched him as I flipped away. wasn't expecting it to launch, so I had no idea what throw out if I could that would've hit him, as he was hella far away in the air. probably a cd+1 would've landed, but that's probably it. I was a front facing med, so a BT med 3, yoshi flipping away from his opponent. not towards like a normal med 3 would.
Signature slaughtering you with love taps.
NoodleHead
will touch u gently
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17047
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TastyPPJuice
#788 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Inca
just had a MED 3 launch on a non fatty. it was vs another yoshi player, online of all things. I did med and he tried a 1SS f+3+4 and I went for the med 3 and it launched him as I flipped away. wasn't expecting it to launch, so I had no idea what throw out if I could that would've hit him, as he was hella far away in the air. probably a cd+1 would've landed, but that's probably it. I was a front facing med, so a BT med 3, yoshi flipping away from his opponent. not towards like a normal med 3 would.


Hmm... if BT MED 3 launches consistently, then it can be a good move to invest our time on. Thanks for the info.
HeartHunter
Legend
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 503
From: Singapore
#789 “Quote” Edit Post
They should just give us back the old BT 3....
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PhineBuyM3
Fujin
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 592
From: USA Texas
#790 “Quote” Edit Post
I'm getting ready to take my concerns to Namco themselves although I'm not sure how effective making a few points on the message board will be but I do intend for someone on the development team to see this or something along the lines of that. I'm gonna be concise and simple about it;

-BT 3 and MED 3 to launch on hit like they did in TK6.0. Reverse B! has proven to be useless and the only thing I can do that fast and safe enough is d+1.

-Flash Range increased(TK6.0 or TK5.0), I'm sure this move was created to stop pitbullers so I really would like an explanation for nerfing it in the first place when BR came around because as of now I have no useful move to gain an offensive again once I'm pitbulled.

-Increase the speed of d/f+2,2 and d+2,2 slightly. These moves, at first glance seemed like great weapons for close range but they come out a little too slow.

-Either fix F,f,4 to where I can use it as a juggle starter like TK6.0 or give us the old F,f,4 from TK5 and so on.

-Fix FC df+4 because it is so predictable in BR as opposed to TK6.0 where it served Yoshi tricky playstyle prefectly.

That is all I guess, I don't wanna ask for too much but I'd love for yoshi to play more like his TK6.0 form where he was actually a threat instead of the joke that he is in BR, but I do feel proud when I win with him and go on a winning streak and then get kicked out of the lobby for winning too much .

Does anyone else have ideas they would like me to present.

I'm having problems with pulling off a B2,1,KIN,F+2 after Flash,d+1+2, I've done this by accident on small and big characters but whenever I try to purposely do it, I always miss the B2,1,Kin,F+2 and get punished for it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Kq...756&index=5
@ 6:28 Noko uses DRG stance and makes the sword spin like crazy and I've tried using it as a victory jig occasionally but I can't get it spin like that.
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Inca
(=' 3 ')=
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1524
From: USA Florida
PSN: xxIncaxx
#791 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by PhineBuyM3
I'm getting ready to take my concerns to Namco themselves although I'm not sure how effective making a few points on the message board will be but I do intend for someone on the development team to see this or something along the lines of that. I'm gonna be concise and simple about it;

-BT 3 and MED 3 to launch on hit like they did in TK6.0. Reverse B! has proven to be useless and the only thing I can do that fast and safe enough is d+1.

-Flash Range increased(TK6.0 or TK5.0), I'm sure this move was created to stop pitbullers so I really would like an explanation for nerfing it in the first place when BR came around because as of now I have no useful move to gain an offensive again once I'm pitbulled.

-Increase the speed of d/f+2,2 and d+2,2 slightly. These moves, at first glance seemed like great weapons for close range but they come out a little too slow.

-Either fix F,f,4 to where I can use it as a juggle starter like TK6.0 or give us the old F,f,4 from TK5 and so on.

-Fix FC df+4 because it is so predictable in BR as opposed to TK6.0 where it served Yoshi tricky playstyle prefectly.

That is all I guess, I don't wanna ask for too much but I'd love for yoshi to play more like his TK6.0 form where he was actually a threat instead of the joke that he is in BR, but I do feel proud when I win with him and go on a winning streak and then get kicked out of the lobby for winning too much .

Does anyone else have ideas they would like me to present.

I'm having problems with pulling off a B2,1,KIN,F+2 after Flash,d+1+2, I've done this by accident on small and big characters but whenever I try to purposely do it, I always miss the B2,1,Kin,F+2 and get punished for it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Kq...756&index=5
@ 6:28 Noko uses DRG stance and makes the sword spin like crazy and I've tried using it as a victory jig occasionally but I can't get it spin like that.



here's my take on the yoshi fixes.

* BT 3 and MED 3 - yes it should launch llike it did before
* Flash should have it's t4 property back. Steal a move on hit, nothing on whiff. and have it contain his t4 range but just a tad shorter. move stealing would be a nice random aspect for yoshi, allowing him to use his opponents setups against him/her.
* ff+4 is fine, since it does give a full juggle, 16 frame startup sis fine. The recovery should be slightly faster, to allow at least a safer way to block jabs and d/f+1s
* d/f+2,2 and d+2,2 are ok as they are now, but to fix it make them hit confirmed NC.
* FC d/f+4 is fine to be honest I'm kinda glad it does trip, since yoshi is at +frames, lets yoshi to keep offense at FC.
* give u/f+3 a consistant low and high crush property like lars u/f+3, d.jins u+4 and steves b+1. =X I know wishful thinking.

his DGF copter spin spazz thing, is just f~f~f~f~f~f~f~f~f or b~b~b~b~b~b~b~b or f~b~f~b~f~b~f~b all do the same thing. the f~b one is by far the easiest.
Signature slaughtering you with love taps.
Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#792 “Quote” Edit Post
Noooo, I can't believe that you want the Tekken 4 flash back. Many, many times I even didn't know what I have just stolen, the random factor was too random.

I would rather vouch for 1+3+4 being a lot faster, say: 10 frames and a good pushback/nothing on whiff. It would help in our fight for spacing.

(But anyway, that we do everything to space ourselves away just means that Yoshimitsu is very disadvantaged. Every character in Tekken has something to use upclose. It enrages me, Yoshimitsu used to be in my feeling the best balanced character in the game, he had something useful for every range.)

d+2 should be a true high crush, just like his d+2 basic punch was. That it isn't is a true joke and ... I just hate it. I don't have anything nice-crushing besides low kicks upclose, which sucks.

More 1SS - NSS transitions after any hit that draws Yoshi's sword (b+2,1, d+2,2, CD 1, and so on). It would be extremely nice.

More unique moves from NSS stance.

Ability to start a round in NSS.

FC, d/f+4 is not okay in my opinion. Gosh, it doesn't even launch on normal hit. Considering this fact, it should have lesser disadvantage on block. It should have around -13 to be a well-balanced move. I would even take away the CH juggle, I CH with it rarely anyway. But it should be safer on block, my opponents just see it. This way, Yoshimitsu's FC game would be better but not overpowered anyway.

I would also fix d/b+2,2,2s to the state of Tekken DR. It should travel further, have better priority.

4~3 should never, ever be hit by a high move.

SS+1 should be fixed, it's getting worse and worse every released Tekken.

MED 3 should launch as it used to, BT 3 should be as before.

Flash... don't know. The range is very short indeed. If they want to keep flash as it is, they should fix both b+1+2 and u+3+4 to evade better because now I'm taking more hits than evading anything.

------

About "joke"... once I picked Yoshi and the random sheep stage appeared... my friend got nearly beaten by my own hands as he said "oh, a joke character on a joke stage!".

Playing Yoshi is stressful enough, I'm not in the mood to withstand suck jokes.

Goddammit... Namco has hurt Yoshi very bad. I can play better with characters I don't know a sh*t about, just 1/6th of my knowledge about Yoshi... and be more successful than with him. So something is not right at all. Something about Yoshi's moves, they just don't work as they should. Namco exagerrated with toning down frames and hitboxes.

I can feel it clearly when I switch to Jin, for example. His moves "just connect", without much effort, without much care about alignment and so. And Yoshi? I switch to Yoshi and suddenly I feel that I always "barely miss" - the timing, the spacing, the positioning.

Again complains... but I'm just sad about my beloved character's nerfs.
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SAPhoenix
1st Dan
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18
From: South Africa
#793 “Quote” Edit Post
I agree with pretty much everything you've said KYG, although my recent experiences lead me to believe that b+1+2 is not as bad as one would think. In actual fact, it's saved my hide on more than a few occasions. I've been using it after bait moves too with great success. When I get the opportunity to post up some matches, I'll show you what I mean.

As nerfed as Yoshi is this time around, he's still got some fight left in him. I previously posted in the "T6 Yoshi blows" thread that I was struggling to win with Yoshi, but now that I've invested more time in the character, I find that he still has what it takes. His mixup ability is somewhat gimped, I'll admit, but what he does have is still effective enough to win with.

I vsed one of my good friends over the weekend, and he plays Julia (remarkably well, I might add, he's been giving just about all of us headaches with his pitbull style) and ever since we've started playing BR, he's had the upper hand against pretty much everyone in our Tekken group. This time around, after I had spent more time getting to grips with Yoshi, I was able to turn the tables and hold my own.

So far, I've gone up against Steve (who is played by the best player in our group, Hotshot, formerly known as FoxSteve, he's played the likes of AC, Ryan Hart, etc, I steal rounds but he still wins overall *rofl*), Law and Julia with my Yoshi and IMO, Yoshi is still very capable of rising to the challenge. I'm still in favour of positive changes and improvements though, don't get me wrong. But I feel that hard work will pay off with Yoshi.
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Sun Tzu
PhineBuyM3
Fujin
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 592
From: USA Texas
#794 “Quote” Edit Post
Another idea came to mind when I was playing against my friend who uses law and he always uses that jump kick; a simple case of logic would have you thinking u+3+4 would evade the kick and hit the opponent ohh no that isn't the case instead when yoshi dissappears the kick still connected

I'm also missing a 2 customization items and I suspect that the Yoshimitsu costume/battle banners dlc omitted them somehow because I don't have the battle banner with japanese writing,black katana that goes on the left waist. I regret using that dlc.

Last edited by PhineBuyM3 on Dec 21st, 2009 at 18:13

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Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#795 “Quote” Edit Post
Well, most probably the hardwork will pay when using Yoshi.
But imagine the same hardwork when using other character.

...

Well, don't get me wrong, eventually I really like all the hardwork I'm giving to mastering Yoshi, if only it really WILL pay off. But as for Tekken system, many times it assured me that even when I guess right with Yoshi, the (crush) system won't be in my favour, and I'll lose because of weakened moves' priority.

I only want the moves to work as expected, crush as expected, evade as expected. Then Yoshi will be really fine!
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NoodleHead
will touch u gently
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17047
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TastyPPJuice
#796 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kazu-Yoshi-girl
Well, most probably the hardwork will pay when using Yoshi.
But imagine the same hardwork when using other character.


Compared to the time I spent w/ Yoshi, I probably did like, a quarter of it w/ Baek. My Baek's at least twice as effective w/o juggle so far.
Yoshimattsu
Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 189
From: USA Montana
PSN: Yoshimattsu
XBL: Party Hat Matt
#797 “Quote” Edit Post
Wow, I guess I'm glad I only use Yoshi, because that sort of business would make me angry..
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Kazu-Yoshi-girl
a.k.a Tenshimitsu
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2007
From: Poland
PSN: Tenshimitsu
#798 “Quote” Edit Post
Yeah, Yoshimattsu - stay away from other chars, it will only make you mad.

Now there's something masochistic in playing Yoshi LOL, hehehe... you're forced to lose your lifebar more than before.
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lawlhalla
5th Dan
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 53
From: Netherlands
PSN: lawlhalla
XBL: lawlhalla
#799 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Kazu-Yoshi-girl
Now there's something masochistic in playing Yoshi LOL, hehehe... you're forced to lose your lifebar more than before.

in more ways then one lol.
*Kuch* Hara kiri to manji blood dance *Kuch*

Anyways it is exactly why i still focus on Yoshimitsu only. I fear that i might abandon him when i see the effects of another character. I might consider playing raven though.
But as had been said above, hard work will probably pay off. And the harder it is, the more i want to play him.
NoodleHead
will touch u gently
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 17047
From: USA North Carolina
PSN: TastyPPJuice
#800 “Quote” Edit Post
I find myself end up being in low health bar quite often, and I almost always force my bar goes even lower to activate rage mode against my opponent who has more health than I do. While it's "good" that Yoshi has access to activate rage, it's not really worth the trade-off that he sux at a lot of other stuff.

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