Testing input frame data with 2P PStick

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noodalls
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#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Supercharger
Both eddy and Christie take 56 frames of animation before you can cancel their superchargers. They remained charged until frame 321 (a jab thrown on F320

will give CH but not 321).


Investigating bound.
F1 P2 Eddy does d+4. F15 P1 Eddy presses df to parry it. P1 can input commands from F42. P2 can tech roll on frames 76-85, or roll normally on F93 onwards.

Sidestepping
d on F1 held until F2 to F10 gives a SS. D held from F1 to F11 and released on F12 gives a duck and no ss. d on F10 off on F11 gives an instant duck then a sidestep (look liks it whiffs through Eddy). You can duck and ss with one command for inputs from F10 released up to and including F14. If you hold D from F10 until F15 he will duck but not sidestep. (This 1F duck+sidestep was in previous games).

One sidestep on F1 allows for a second ss to be input on F15.

Sidestep attacks.
For d pressed on F1 and released on F2, pressing RK on F1 gives d+RK. Pressing RK on F2 gives standing RK. RK on frames 3-47 gives ss+RK. RK on F48 gives

standing RK again.
= sidestep attacks accepted from F3-47.



iWS
It appears the old db~ or df~ iWS method is gone. * Note, what I mean is that before you could hold db or df for 1 frame, release on F2 and get ws moves. This is not the case anymore.

DB or DF on F1, release on F7 and press 1 on F7 gives iWS+1. Doesn't matter if you press D,then move to DF or DB at any point from F1-6. Must release direction on F7 and press button on F7. Releasing direction on F7 and button on F8 gives standing jab.

Can release direction on F8 then press button on F8 or F9 to get iWS.
Release direction F9, button on F9-11 gives iWS.
Release direction F10, button on F10-13.
Etc.

D on F1 release on F12 (not before) then button on F12-17 gives ws+1.

Holding D for F1-7 then RK will give FC+RK. Holding for F1-6 and pressing the button on the last frame of F1-6 will give d+RK.


Wall tech
uf+4 on F1, hits on F22. P2 can tech from F74-88 (wall slump).


d,f+3 on F1, hits on F20. Sit slump is techable on F97-126 (30frames).

Edit - answer to question below. Better investigation of iWS moves.

Last edited by noodalls on Nov 29th, 2009 at 10:55

ChrisCP
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#2 “Quote” Edit Post
When you have a chance, I've been using d,df~n as a iWS input, does this have the same yeild on the frame windows?
Signature Better lucky than good.

Originally posted by Shinjin
"my tekken is all about tech catches and setups, this new tekken is about poking and being gay with the wall ?_?."
noodalls
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#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Check above, I updated the initial post.


Crouch-cancelling
Kaz d+4 on F1. Input of a follow-up 1 will be read on F40 onwards. For pressing 1 on F40-50 it will give ws+1. This hits on F57 for inputs on F40-45, then 1 frame later for each later input up to F62 for input on F50.
For 1 pressed on F51 onwards it will give standing 1. This hits on F60.

CC with u.
Inputting u from F30 onwards then 1 on F46 or later will give standing 1. This hits on F55. Note, pressing u+1 at any time from F40 onwards will give jumping

1.

To CC with ff.
Same setup with Kaz d+4 on F1.
You can input f on F26, then a second f on F46. Pressing 1 on F47 will give jab (F46 gives ws+1). This hits on F56 (1F slower than the u method of CC. Note however, that Kaz does slide forward just a touch with this method, so that may be of benefit.)

My interpretation.
Buffer window is F 40-45 for buttons, earlier for directions. You can input a SS in that earlier window, and then press a button just as the buffer window finishes.

Alternatively, if you CC with ff, you can buffer one f (slightly earlier it seems) and then next f immediately after the buffer window closes (F46), then a further input on F47 will give the dashing jab.
noodalls
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#4 “Quote” Edit Post
The input is f,F+1 not f,f+1

Pet peeve. If you look at a lot of the japanese guides, you will notice that they specifically write f,F+button, not f,f+button. This is because it is the correct notation.

If you press f on F1 and release on F2, then press f+1 on F3, it will give f+1.
If you press f on F1, release on F2, press f on F3 and release on F4 and press 1 on F4, you will get standing 1.
If you press f on F1, release on F2, press f on F3, press 1 on F4 and release f+1 on F5, you get f,F+1. e.g. J6's B! move.

For what it's worth, you can press f on F1, release on F2, then hold F from F3-34 and press 1 on F33 to get f,F+1. If F on F33 you get standing 1.
noodalls
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
Throw breaks
P2 presses 1+3 on F1. P1 can press 1 on F14-28 and it will escape the throw. To duck it, you must input D by at least F12 (and hold it for until at least F14.)
P2 presses f+1+3 on F1. P1 can press 1 on F17-31 and it will escape the throw. To duck it you must press D by F15, and hold it until at least F17.

Also tested clashing jabs with throw.

1+3 pressed on F1. If a jab lands on F2-12 it will CH (except that throws don't get CH, i.e. it will interrupt the initiation frames of the throw.) If a jab lands on F13 there will be a double hit marking, but the jab will hit and cause damage, and the throw will do nothing. If the jab would land on F14, the throw is successful.

The same applies to f+1+3 throws, except it goes 2-15 jab wins, F16 double hit (jab wins) and F17 throw wins.
bob in der bahn
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#6 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks, noodalls!

could you also test some special throws like

gs
ma
eod etc..

and some generic 1+2 throws ??
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insomnotek
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#7 “Quote” Edit Post
excellent frame study. iws from db has been bugging me since arcade so i went with df. nice to see some data to back that move up.
noodalls
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#8 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by bob in der bahn
Thanks, noodalls!

could you also test some special throws like

gs
ma
eod etc..

and some generic 1+2 throws ??


Is there a reason to think they're different from what's posted on inatekken? Check that first, then let me know if you still want me to test things (it takes me about an hour to do that, if the data is on somewhere already there's no real point.)


Other throws
Rodeo is 35 frames on whiff (can input standing 1 on F35). Same for df+1+2.
Rodeo executing from F1, break on F13-27 (15 frames). *means command finishes on F1.
df+1+1 executing from F1, break on 13-27
Jab from F58 post break for Eddy, F52 for P2. Earliest break P2 F38, P1 F44 (so always -6 for the thrower.) Tested with df+1+2.

Paul df+1+2 break F14-28.
Feng df+1+2 break F14-28. Both are 35frames on whiff as above.
f+1+3 is a lot longer on whiff, can input an action from F46.

JFSR
Input is f/F,N,df+4. F can be held for upto 7 frames (release on the 8th) and df+4 must be pressed on F21 or earlier. Extending the F up to the maximum 7th F does not give you more leniency to input df+4.
-12 on block. No differences between stances from what i can see.

OTGF
As above but you have up to F10 to hold F (release F11) and df+1 is on F21 or earlier. So, slightly more lenient.
-10 on block.
noodalls
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#9 “Quote” Edit Post
Paul d+4 Jfs
d+4 on F1. can input 2 up until F18. F14-18 allow for a third input.
If 2 is pressed on F14-16, the third hit will come out for F35-39, with sparkles on F37 and F38
If 2 is pressed on F17, the third hit will come out for F36-40, with sparkles on F38 and F39
If 2 is pressed on F18, the third hit will come out for F37-41, with sparkles on F39 and F40

Frame data for standard third hit is -17.
Frame data for sparkles third hit is -17.
noodalls
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#10 “Quote” Edit Post
Paul JF throw
df+1+3 on F1.
Deathfist (with the f+2 portion on) F40-56 will work. F46-50 gives sparkles.
Same as standard throws, inputs from F35 on whiff.
Jab on F3 will double hit (i.e. same execution speed as standard throw).

Paul f,F+2,1
Input for second hit accepted from F6-21 (takes 4 frames to input the f,F+2).
JF for inputs on F19-21.
JF -4 on block
Standard is -12 on block.
jide
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#11 “Quote” Edit Post
Thanks for that Noodalls. Appreciated
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jide
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#12 “Quote” Edit Post
Hey noodalls when you get the time can can you please leos df+1+2,1+2,qcf+2.
Signature "Do you think acting like an idiot and talking about sex works on girls"

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noodalls
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#13 “Quote” Edit Post
Tested Paul d+4,2,1+2 holding the 2 and buffering the 1. Same input windows (14-->35-39, 18-->37-41) appear to apply but no option to get sparkles. Does someone want to explain how this makes the JF easier?
noodalls
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#14 “Quote” Edit Post
df+1+2,1+2,qcf+2

What about it?

The second 1+2 can be input on F3-23. This delays it up to 5 frames (normally Leo can enter commands from F74 if fastest input of the second command, buffers from F78 if Leo delays the second input maximally. Still natural combos on longest delay.



The third hit (the 2 portion) can be input on F35-55 (F39-59 where 1+2 is pressed on the last possible frame). F99 fastest, F112 fastest 2nd input, slowest third input, F116 for everything last possible frame. (i.e. total possible delay across the three hits is 17 frames.)
Shinjin
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#15 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by noodalls
Tested Paul d+4,2,1+2 holding the 2 and buffering the 1. Same input windows (14-->35-39, 18-->37-41) appear to apply but no option to get sparkles. Does someone want to explain how this makes the JF easier?


it doesn't.

d+4,2,1~2 or 2~1 still gets the jf.

well i guess you could say it makes it easier because of the notation but 2 buttons isin't really that much "harder" then 1 button.

btw, are there any frames during a techroll that you can't block?, also do you have the frame data for the spring up ( hold F when your knocked down)
Signature Bruck him for souf east, blud

look man the move doesnt track sidestep, but if you sidestep it will hit you
steves b+1 isint safe because it only auto guards high and mid, but you can cancel it and block all lows
Jaycees u/f+4,3 is launch punishable on block but if you try to punish it the 1 follow-up will hit you
Drake Aldan
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#16 “Quote” Edit Post
Yes, may I make a request?

Wang's ws1+2... what are the autoguard frames?

tl_crow brought it up in the discussion forums and I thought it would be neat to know as well.
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noodalls
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#17 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Drake Aldan
Wang's ws1+2... what are the autoguard frames?



Frames 6-16 inclusive. Looks like it hits on F27 or so.
noodalls
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#18 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by Shinjin

btw, are there any frames during a techroll that you can't block?,


P1 Eddy d,f+3 on F1 (input complete F2, hits on ~F20). Tech with button 1 on frame 62. P1 Eddy does d+4 on F76 (whiffs on any earlier frame) and it is duck blockable.
Standing 4 on F80 is blockable. Whiffs on F79.

Is there a reason to think there are frames in the tech roll where you can't block. I would have thought with even more moves than T5.0 people would have found unblockable tech-catches by now if there were. I also think that Namco has left them out for keeps now.
Drake Aldan
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#19 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by noodalls
Frames 6-16 inclusive. Looks like it hits on F27 or so.


Thanks! You're a lifesaver.
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Shinjin
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#20 “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by noodalls
P1 Eddy d,f+3 on F1 (input complete F2, hits on ~F20). Tech with button 1 on frame 62. P1 Eddy does d+4 on F76 (whiffs on any earlier frame) and it is duck blockable.
Standing 4 on F80 is blockable. Whiffs on F79.

Is there a reason to think there are frames in the tech roll where you can't block. I would have thought with even more moves than T5.0 people would have found unblockable tech-catches by now if there were. I also think that Namco has left them out for keeps now.


non other then wishfull thinking.

my tekken is all about tech catches and setups, this new tekken is about poking and being gay with the wall ?_?.
Signature Bruck him for souf east, blud

look man the move doesnt track sidestep, but if you sidestep it will hit you
steves b+1 isint safe because it only auto guards high and mid, but you can cancel it and block all lows
Jaycees u/f+4,3 is launch punishable on block but if you try to punish it the 1 follow-up will hit you

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