Under construction

NCs (Natural Combos)
1,2
(1,2),3,1+2
1,d+2
qcf+1,2*
2,1
d+2,4
d/f+3,1,2
d/f+3,1,d+2
d/f+3,d+1
d/f+3,1+2
d/f+4,2
(f+2),d+1,2
f+3,2


NCcs (Natural Combos on Counterhit)
b+1,2
WS_VTS 1,2
f+2,1
d/f+2,1
d/b+3,1
d/b+3,4


Punishers
10f - (f+)1,2 (22dmg, +5 on hit, close range)
10f - (f+)1,2,3+4 (22dmg, +2 on hit, close range)
10f - (f+)1,2,VTSc (22dmg, +4 on hit, close range)
10f - (f+)1,d+2 (23dmg, +7 on hit, close range)
10f - 2,1 (26dmg, +5 on\ hit and turns opponent slightly to the side, close to mid range)
10f - FC 1 (crouching, 6dmg, +5 on hit, no range)
11f - VTS_WS+1 (16dmg, +3 on hit, mid range)
11f - VTS_WS+1~3+4 (16dmg, +5 on hit, mid range
12f - ff+2 (25dmg, knocks down, close to mid range)
13f - VTS_WS+4 (25dmg, knocks down, close to mid range)
13f - d/f+4,2 (38dmg, -3 on hit and forces crouch, close to mid range)
14f - b+4 (24dmg, +2 on hit, mid to far range)
15f - f+1+2 (25dmg, +0 on hit?, mid to far range)
16f - d/f+1 (18dmg, launcher, mid range)
17f - d/f+3,d+1 (27dmg, launcher, mid to far range)
17f - u/f+1+2 (25dmg, launcher, mid to far range)
18f - WS+3 (21dmg, launcher, close to mid range)
19f - d+1+2 (28dmg, launcher, close to mid range)
23f - u/f,N+4 (30dmg, launcher, mid range)
Slides - FC 1+2, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2
Low parry - d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, 1,2,VTSc, 1,2,VTSc (wall carry)
Low parry - d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, 1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2 (dmg)
Low parry - d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, 1, f+1+3 (oki)


Combos
CH 4
-f+2+4
-ff+2, d+4
-d/f+2,1 (vs. Marduk, close range)
-d/b+3,1,1 (close range, hit d/b+3 after they hit the apex of the float)

d/f+1_d+1+2_(f+2),d+1,2_d/f+3,d/f+1_(f+2),d+1,2_u/f,N+4
-2, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2
-2, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1, f+1+3
-2, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2 (wall carry)
-2,d+1+2, 1,2,VTSc, d/f+4,2, B!, iVTS 1,2, W!, WT
-2,d+1+2, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,f+1, W!, WT
-1, d/f+3,d/f+1,2, B!, b+1,2 (off axis)

d/b+1+2_GT
-u/f+3, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2
-u/f+3, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, 1,2, W!, WT
-f+3,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2
-f+3,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,f+1 (vs. back)
-2, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, b+1,2 (d/b+1+2 vs. back)
*After d/b+1+2, SSL very slightly to help with timing and angle

CH u/f+3
-u/f+1+2, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2
-2, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2

CH d/b+2_CH d+1_SS+1+2
-GT
-d/b+4

u/f+4
-d/b+4
-d/b+3,1,1
-b+1+2

CH VTS_WS+2
-d/f+3,1+2, B!, d/b+3,1,1 (will miss if Craig is off axis to his right)
-d/f+3,d+1,2, B!, u/f+3+4
-d/f+3,d+1,2, B!, b+1+2

CH VTS_WS+4
-d/b+4
-Ground Throw

d/b+4, quick stand, D+3

u/f+1+2
-d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2
-d/b+3,1,1 (vs. small)

(qcf+1),2*, iWR 3 (test)

CH f+1+2, dash, b+1,2

CH f+4, d/b+4

f+1+4, SLD 2_d+2

b+1+2, WS+3

qcf+1
-VTS~D/F, FC 1+2, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2
-VTS~D/F, FC 1+2, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, 1,2, W!, WT
-u/f+1+2. d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2 (qcf+1)

CH b+2
-u/f+3+4 (oki)
-d/b+3,1,1
-SSR, dash, GT

CH 1+2
-d/f+1... (15+)
-ff+2, W! (f+)2+4 (56dmg)

CH (1,2,)f+1
-d/b+3,1,1
-b+1,2
-f,N, Ground Throw
-b+1+2?
-d/b+4

ff+1+2
-dash, d/f+3,d/f+1,2, u/f+3+4 (oki)
-SSR, f+3,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, b+1,2
-SSR, f+3,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, d/b+4
-SSR, f+3,2, B!, d/f+3,1, d+1 (oki)
-SSL, f+3,2, B!, d/f+3,d+1, b+1,2
-SSL, f+3,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,f+1 (consistent, dmg + oki)

VTS 3
-1, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, b+1,2
-d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,d/f+1, b+1+2
-d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, 1,2,VTSc, b+1,2
-1, d/f+3,1+2, B!, u/f+3+4


W!
-d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+2,1
-WT
-f+2,d+1, B!, d/f+3,1, GT (WT vs. Bigs)
-d/f+3,1, GT


W! (strong)
-d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+2,1
-d/f+3,1, GT
-bd, d/f+2, WT

Last edited by Icege on Nov 5th, 2010 at 07:16

Throws
-(f+)1+3 - 1 break. 35dmg.
Marduk scoops the person up in a crucifix powerbomb position and then rolls forward. Leaves the opponent face down, feet towards afterwards. On break, the opponent kicks off of Craig's back causing a position change. Great when trying to get the wall from behind Marduk's back. Whether or not they break it they'll end up with their back to the wall afterwards, which is a good way to escape being pinned. NEW: The okizeme afterwards is actually very strong. d/f+3,d+1 will pick up get up kicks, quick stand to crouching, and roll left. Another option is to dash and react to what the opponent does: if they roll away dash in and back throw, ground throw if they do a delayed tech roll (or lay there). b+1+2 is a good option, but they can roll away from it. Versus a quick stand, f+2 will actually punch the opponent in the back of the dome. From here it can get rather ridiculous with (f+2),1 combos with the f+2 damage tacked on to it. You can also f+2,d+1,2 since they can duck the second hit of f+2,1 if they choose to do so (only to get hit with the d+1,2 ender).

[b]-(f+)2+4 - 2 break. 35dmg.
Marduk lifts the opponent up and then drops them knee first across his knee before letting them fall off with their side facing him. No guaranteed options. On break the opponent jumps over Craig's shoulder as he's being lifted.

-(f+)(1+3_2+4) from left side - 1 break. 45dmg.
Marduk somewhat gutwrenches his opponent on top of their head. Solid damage, nothing guaranteed afterwards.

-(f+)(1+3_2+4) from right side - 2 break. 40dmg.
Gorilla Presses the opponent causing them to land head towards, face up. Nothing guaranteed afterwards.

-(f+)1+3 from behind - 60dmg.
Belly-to-back suplex. Great damage.

-(f+)2+4 from behind - 60dmg.
Marduk gets double underhooks then does a backflip with his opponent onto their face. Great damage (f+1+3 used to do more) and good for chasing people that are trying to roll away with their back to you. Sets you up in the same situation afterwards so it is possible to catch somebody rolling away with f+2+4 on their back, then do it to them again if they try to roll away afterwards. That's almost 70%!

-qcf+1+3 - 1 break. 25dmg. 15dmg if you hit 1+2 to go into Mount.
Northern Lights Suplex. Under no circumstances should this throw ever be done without you hitting 1+2 to float over into the mount. The damage isn't worth it. With the Mount though, do at the minimum 15 (which is the most damage you can do getting into the mount). Then you either guess wrong and they're stuck getting up, or you guess right and do 35-40dmg extra.

-qcf+2+4 - 2 break. 25dmg. 15dmg if you hit 1+2 to go into Mount.
Powerslam. Same thing as qcf+1+3. Never do this without going into Mount.

-ff+1+2 - 1+2 break. 30dmg. Position Change on break. Juggle follow-up.
Monstrous choke slam that bounces the opponent for follow-ups. Refer to the combo section. This is a very important throw to scare opponent's with. Even if they break throws all the time, it's important to still throw this out. The damage and oki potential afterwards is too good not to.

-qcb+1+2 - 1+2 break. 40dmg.
This is what his Jackhammer was in T4 in terms of properties. It's very fast (11f) which makes it hard to break. Damage is good, and the wakes aren't too bad. Nothing guaranteed, but this throw catches a lot of people off guard. NEW: b+4 will catch people that try to quick stand or roll away from you. Use this to establish a mix-up after the throw.

-f,hcf+1 - 1 break. 45dmg.
Jackhammer. Great damage, good wake up afterwards. Not quite the beast it was before (d/b,d/b+1+2 bufferable old command, 11f start-up). You can still buffer the throw. NEW: d/b+2, b+4, and d/f+2,1 all catch any attempts to quick stand or roll away. Use this to establish a mix-up after the throw.

-d+1+3 vs crouching - 1 break. 45dmg. Crouch Throw.
Powerbomb.

-d+2+4 vs crouching - 2 break. 45dmg. Crouch Throw.
Right knee to the head. Awesome throw because if their back is to the wall, d/b+4 is guaranteed for a chunk of damage.

-d/b+(1+3_2+4) vs grounded (head/feet) - 1 break if 1+3, 2 break if 2+4. 0dmg on initial throw, 20dmg if they hit the ground. Ground Throw.
Craig reaches down and snatches the opponent up by the feet/head and chucks them in the air. Different positions result in different properties, but I believe in this game you can just do u/f+3, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2 no matter what. This is a must. If you ever think an opponent is going to lay there or tech roll, you could possibly hit them with the ground throw into big damage. It's a true 50/50 on their part if they know it's coming.

-d/b+(1+3_2+4) vs grounded (left/right, face up) - 1 break if 1+3, 2 break if 2+4. 12dmg.
Marduk sticks the opponent in the mouth and gets in the mount. Potential 52dmg if you get one of the 40dmg mount extensions afterwards.

-d/b+(1+3_2+4) vs grounded (left/right, face down) - 1 break if 1+3, 2 break if 2+4. 30dmg
Your most base damage from a ground throw. Does a big knee to the opponent's ribs for 30dmg.

-(f+)1+3 vs air. 22dmg.
Marduk grabs the opponent by the ankle and slams them face first over his head into the ground. Results you being at the opponent's feet with them face down for good oki options. Though not as intimidating as it was in 5.0 or T5DR, still a solid option if they're too far away to land ff+1+2 or VTSc carry them to the wall.

-(f+)2+4 vs air. 22dmg.
Marduk's best range air grab and easiest to connect. Does okay damage but tosses the opponent to Marduk's right far away. This results in no oki, but it will smack them into the wall if it happens to be over there.

-ff+1+2 vs air. 27dmg.
Most damaging air throw. Doesn't give much for oki afterwards with the exception of d/b+1 if they quick stand. Marduk puts the opponent across a shoulder and falls back, dumping them on their head. Though it only does 5dmg more than the other two, you can land this after a VTSc which allows you to sneak an extra couple of damage in there.

-(f+)1+3_2+4_ff+1+2 vs air/wall. 35dmg.
Marduk's air throw does a ton of damage. Whenever you can send somebody to the wall, you're going to get it as long as they're facing you. He grabs their ankles and slams them against the wall like he was beating dirt off of a rug. When they come down, they'll be face down with Marduk to their left side and the wall to the right. Good oki positioning.

-VTS 1+3 - 1 break. 35dmg.
Pretty nasty looking chokeslam. Solid damage option out of VTS and it leaves Marduk pretty close afterwards to keep the pressure on.

-VTS 2+4 - 2 break. 35dmg.
Scoop slam that to the eye, might not be as strong as the Chokeslam, but it does the same amount of damage and gives you better oki options. The opponent is left face up, head towards so you're able to apply the old T5DR mind game (d/f+3,1,2,f+1 to mix up if they quick stand, Ground Throw if they lay there or tech roll, f+4, d/b+4, u/f+3+4, and dash f+2+4 to get a back throw vs. roll away). Might be better to do d/f+3,d+1,2,B!, u/f+3+4 or d/f+3,1, d/f+4,2,B!, d/f+3,1, b+1,2 when catching quick standers.

-VTS 1+2 - 1+2 break. 12dmg if slam, 8dmg if spear.
The tackle. Great range. Priority isn't there anymore and it's easier to break, so it's probably the weakest it's ever been. However, it does have an active hit box on Marduk's head at the end now, so if you whiff the tackle part, you can still keep the opponent in block stun or maybe even do a little damage. There's still a 3-5 step range for the spear. Mount is still strong, very strong. Unfortunately, tackle isn't going to land much unless your opponents just don't break tackles or your using it like a pressure tool for oki like he used to in T4.

Mount
Marduk has a special mounted position that is different from other characters. He can access it by running into the opponent like everyone else, and even has a command tackle like Dragunov and Kazuya, but Marduk's goes further, faster, and leads to stronger options. He can also land in it through throws and a counter.

-1 - 2 break. 35dmg.
Generic punch. Marduk does a few punches to the ribs before coming over the top with his left hand. The positioning you're left afterwards is at your opponent's immediate side, which is very nice.

-1+3 - 2 break. 40dmg.
Marduk does a few gut punches before ending with a guillotine choke. Leaves him close to the opponent's side for wakeup.

-1~2 - 1 break. 35dmg.
Fake out punch. Craig starts up the left punch, but quickly cancels into the right hand instead. Very good for catching people off guard. Craig is also left relatively close and in good oki position.

-2 - 1 break. 35dmg.
Same as the left punch, just everything direction wise opposite.

-2+4 - 1 break. 40dmg.
Craig punches the opponent a few times before ending with a kneebar. This ender leaves you further away than 1+3, but you're still doing good damage and get some wakeup afterward.

-2~1 - 2 break. 35dmg.
Same as 1~2 punch but with opposite sides.

-1+2 - Neutral break. 35dmg.
Marduk lifts both hands over his right shoulder and brings them down in a sledgehammer fashion. If the opponent isn't attempting to block when the hands come down, then Marduk gets off the opponent as if he had blocked a punch. If the opponent tries to block right or left though, Marduk breaks through the block. It ends with a throw where he lifts both hands up and does a huge Mongolian Chop. The oki afterwards is very good as Marduk is very close and to the side.

-3+4 - Neutral break. 35dmg.
Same as 1+2, but instead of the Mongolian Chop, Craig slams the opponent's head into ground over and over before getting up.


Move List


Vale Tudo Stance (VTS)
Marduk's Vale Tudo Stance (VTS) lends him some very unique and useful attacks, as well as some special maneuverability. Something to keep in mind is that the transition to VTS crushes highs while VTS itself does not crush highs, Marduk's hit box is different as he is a little shorter, but the actual animation crushes highs. In fact, if you hit 3+4 to enter VTS and then hold D/F, Marduk will never even hit the VTS animation. This allows for shenanigans like 3+4~d/f over and over as a mini wavedash of sorts. It's not very useful in the long run, but it does allow for some parlor tricks. Marduk can also jump out of VTS with jumping moves such as u/f+3, u/f+4, and u/f+3+4. He can also cancel into u/f+1+2!

While in VTS, Marduk has access to all of his WS moves as well as his special VTS options. Depending on how he transitioned into VTS, he can also have access to FC moves. However, these two moves (read: not throws) he can only do from VTS.

-VTS f+2 - 22dmg, 17f m -4 on block, knocks down on hit and CH)
Marduk does a power straight that hits mid. This move has huge range but zero tracking. However it's also safe, knocks down, gives big damage if there's a wall nearby or an opponent doesn't tech roll. Especially good for wall pressure, but the move is iffy on the hit box. Sometimes an opponent can be deep in close against Marduk and duck under the straight. However, it's the same speed as VTS d+1+2, which is an unseeable low. Therefore, you have an honest power mixup whenever you enter VTS with the options of VTS 1+2 (tackle), VTS 1+3_2+4 (throws), VTS d+1+2 (low, cannot block on reaction), VTS,D/F,4 (low, blockable on reaction but gives good frames on hit), VTS f+2_3 (mids leading to big damage, one a safe option that can wall splat while the other is punishable but leads to a juggle. Both iffy tracking), VTS 4 (safe, CH hunting. KND on hit, on CH get free stomp or ground throw attempt), VTS 1 (13f mid, CH leads to the follow-up 2 which will knock away, or can VTS 1~VTS to have a quick, safe mid that has good frames on hit, safe on block, and reinforce another mix-up).

-VTS d+1+2 - ??dmg, 17f Lm -27 on block, knocks down on hit and CH)
Perhaps Marduk's best new addition. A 17f low that does almost a throw's worth of damage. An opponent has to duck check because nobody can see this move and block on reaction. Hellsweeps are 16f and cannot be blocked on reaction. This move is 1f slower. You can access it instantly, having an 18f low by doing 3+4~d+1+2. Having the threat of this means that opponents will have to either attempt a crush (which is blocked and punished), ducking (which puts at serious risk for a big mid that leads to monstrous damage), stepping (stuffed with either d+4, b+4, b+2, ff+4, d/f+1+2, and f+1+2), mashing out (counter, crush, or back dash/side step and whiff punish). Use this. Keep constant fear of it in your opponent's head. At the right range, you can land a wall throw after it. There's also some minor oki that can be taken advantage of. If the opponent does not tech roll, d/b+3,1,1 all connects. They have to tech roll to avoid this, not quick stand, not back roll, not kippup, not get up kick. Tech roll. If they tech roll, you can dash in and make them guess between qcf+2_qcf+1 (big damage mix-up, though they can low parry the low? which is not very punishable on block, provides frames for an additional mix-up after solid damage; mid launches; similar motions so they can't just listen for it; also has a throw mix-up with the same motions that lead to the mount) or d+4_b+4 (similar animation as opposed to motion, but close enough. Unparryable low that's launch punishable but can't be blocked on reaction; or safe, mid kick that can't be blocked on reaction, does solid damage, knocks down on CH). Very strong move.

-NOTES: Before, the only reason to use Craig's strings that go into VTS was in order to set up a VTSc mix-up. If they went in and stayed into VTS, they only had to break throws/tackle because the only threatening low available was D/F,4. However, that was blockable on reaction. Otherwise, you were stuck doing just a FC 4 for a low inside the mix-up. Now, VTS d+1+2 being unseeable makes it completely viable to string into VTS without the intention of canceling. Punishing with f+1,2 is a threat now because you can go into VTS and force them to guess between VTS 1_4, VTS f+2_3, VTS 1+3_2+4_1+2, or VTS d+1+2. All of these options can lead to great rewards,

VTS Canceling (VTSc)
Vale Tudo Stance Canceling is a technique that was discovered back in the T4 days by your's truly, and later implemented into combo videos by a Japanese player. This involves doing Marduk's attack strings that end into VTS and canceling by hitting 3+4 again and then tapping a direction to cancel the WS animation. In T4, this had to be done by hitting up or dashing. It was made much better in T5 by allowing f to cancel the WS animation and give more range on the cancel. It's useful in offensive mix-up and even more so in juggling. VTSc can be done anytime you can go into VTS, but it's most useful out of Marduk's 1.2 and d/f+3,1,2 strings. To do this, you do 1,2,3+4~3+4~f. This will cancel not only Marduk's transition to VTS, but cancel the WS animation as well.

Last edited by Icege on Nov 5th, 2010 at 07:13

Bob
Notes: vs. SLD/PLD u/f+3, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1,2,VTSc, ff+1+2
vs. KND/FCD, u/f+3, d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+3,1, f+1+3

Bob falls weird and is usually off axis if you don't step forward before doing u/f+3. Even then he usually still his. This is if you grab him by his feet though.


Sergei Dragunov
Punish with Jabs!!! (-10~-12
1,3,2
4,1
f+3,3
d+3,4
WS+1,3
SS+2,3
qcf+4
3,1,2
f+1+2
d/f+2
ff+2
qcb+2
WS+2

Free d/f+4,2 (-13~-14)
1,2,1
d+4,1,3
qcf+2
d/b+2,1,2

Free b+4 (-14)
WS+1+2_qcf+1+2

Free f+1+2
d+4,4

Overview
I'm not a fan of this match up because I don't like how easy Dragunov is . That's just my opinion at least. The way his strings are designed now, you can't get caught being lazy on your punishment. The Craig player really has to not get caught hitting buttons. It's aggravating because Dragunov has a lot of stuff that leaves him at negative on block, but he's got other shenanigans and delays to catch you trying to take the offensive. Punishment is key here, but what's really important is the Option Select (described below) that will absolutely devastate novice to mid level Dragunov players. It'll also make them more hesitant to throw these attacks out, which can definitely be a difference maker!

Note: A word on blocking Dragunov's lows... well... any lows for that matter: it's not easy to do on reaction outside of the big attacks. The best part about Tekken is that you are given options. Hop kick is a strong option, but Craig's is slower and has more of a chance to whiff than most other character's. It's best to keep yourself primed if you decide to duck to be able to punish. Otherwise fish for low parries. Don't worry so much about blocking an 18dmg low to take a 87dmg mid launcher.

If Craig had a 14~15f WS launcher, that'd be different. Otherwise just assume you can punish with WS+1 and enforce a mix-up from there (w/ or w/o VTS). d+2 can be punished with WS+4, which is nice.

vs. Dragunov Option Select
While the general rule of thumb is that even if Dragunov does a string and ends it early where you know you could've gotten free jabs, don't worry about it. If you had jabbed, you could've ate a CH for 45% so you did well not to! c('.'c) However, Dragunov has a few points where if you were to try and guess normally, you'd lose just from the sheer randomness. All have the same similar timing (with SLIGHT variance):

D/F, u/f+1+2 option select against:
d/b+3 / d/b+3~1+2
b+2,1,3 / b+2,1,3~1+2
2,1,3 / 2,1,4
f+4,4,3 / f+4,d+4

Against b+2,1,3 wait until the 3 begins. Everything else as soon as you see the attack come out, hold D/F. Against the sweep/throw option, this will require you to practice your timing. The rest is a matter of just "wait and see". If they go low, Craig will low parry the attack. You want to practice so that you hold D/F just long enough to low parry the attack, and hit u/f+1+2 immediately after. If there is a low, no u/f+1+2 will come out because Craig will be low parrying Dragunov. If Dragunov instead goes for the throw option in the case of his d/b+3_b+2,1,3, Craig will stand up and u/f+1+2 him instead leading to a free 81dmg (49dmg if he low parried). Both cases end with post ff+1+2 air throw okizeme options as well.

So again: vs. Dragunov's sweep, you have to be precise with your D/F and u/f+1+2. Too long on the D/F and you get thrown, too early on the u/f+1+2 and you get the CH autograb. It takes some practice. The rest is a matter of just holding D/F as soon as the string begins and holding d/f until you low parry or they whiff the high (to which you then punish with u/f+1+2).

Last edited by Icege on Dec 24th, 2010 at 19:37

Post reserved yet again

Last reserved post!

Thread opened to allow for discussion on things that should go into the Marduk primer. This thread can also be used as a general and character specific strategy discussions. Any noteworthy comments will be added to the Primer and credit will be given as well.

I think you've done a pretty good job so far. Only other thing outside of what you have here which is significant to Craig's game is his oki; maybe a basic oki breakdown in situations we find ourselves in regularly? Even then I'm not sure, I still feel his oki deserves a thread of its own in here, there really is a shitload of stuff to list and I'm not sure how people would feel about not being thorough with it in a primer thread.

Props on your efforts so far

Yeah good job with this man!! Just a question. At the end you have
W! (strong)
-d/f+4,2, B!, 1, WT
-d/f+4,2, B!, d/f+2,1
-d/f+4,2, B!, 4, VTS f+2

what do you mean by "strong" and I though you can only do ?1 WT ?and ?4, VTS f+2? on Kuma or jack POST bound seeing how you can't use high moves after B! vs rest of the cast.


Plus I agree with Draakur, we need a separate thread for Oki, which I have promised to do in an earlier post. Will get to it soon . Something I noticed missing from this list of combo's is character/weight specific combo's we need to add/edit that or wall carry and floor break combo's for specific stages. We could add that to this thread

"Power" wall splats are when a character is slammed into a wall by moves such as Craig's ff+2 when close to the wall. This allows more time to get some hits in because of the "sticky" effect.

I'll add a section for oki. I didn't add it because I didn't see it as being as threatening in this game (or easily accessible), but okizeme is a basic part of Tekken. I'll add a section for it.

A lot of the updates I'm kind of holding off on until the release of the console version so that I can test things for myself. I've got a notebook chock full of notes

I'll edit stuff as you guys find errors. I know there's a couple in there I forgot to correct. I'll have to comb through and find them. This is all from my reading various forums and watching videos, so expect it to really flesh out once the end of October rolls around.

Posted some preliminary thoughts as well as some combos that I'll test tomorrow.

Updating the first post with a lot of thoughts and tidbits from day 1 impressions and findings

Summary:

-b+4 after qcb+1+2 to stop quick stand/roll away
-d/b+2, b+4, d/f+2,1 after Jackhammer to stop quick stand/roll away
-Tested and confirmed/denied several combos
-Possible that some characters (ie: Jin) have to have character specific combos done
-GT specific combos still in?
-VTS_WS+3 now hits grounded (!!!)

Last edited by Icege on Oct 28th, 2009 at 05:23

All of that stuff is correct yep, though I've never had any problems performing staples on any characters (from Jin to Feng to Ling), outside of Kuma and Jack.

VTS_ws+3 hits grounded in about 90% of situations, though on some angles (most often seems to occur when opp is FDFA) it will still pass through without registering.

just a couple more odd oki tidbits to include since ive been testing like a madman.

after d+2+4, d/f+2,1 will beat quickstand in open field. against a wall, d/f+4,2 will beat quickstand, into bound so you get free d/f+2,1

after jackhammer, d/b+1 also beats quickstand for a float into free WS 1,2

also look at d+2,4 to beat quickstand on VTS 2+4. it hits them in the back and i think we have enough frames for a nice backthrow, power mid mixup.

my double backthrow setup is still in. backthrow-> f+2+4 will net you another backthrow

also the d/f+3,1,2,f+1 BT trap, the f+1 can now be ducked. better to just commit to the D/F+3,1.

BT tenstring no longer hits either, the WS 3 portion, launches, drastically reducing the damage

Last edited by kAb on Oct 28th, 2009 at 08:09

What's up bitches, Marduk seems like hot garbage in this game. Will probably keep him as a secondary at least.

Good to see Icege and PK staying on top of the documentation, good looks guys.

He's mad better in this game compared to others. Might not have easy mode b.s. like Lars, but his mix-up has to be respected now that he has lows characters will have to try to block/parry.

kAb: <3 I'll add that stuff in a little bit. I'm getting ready to start looking for oki shenanigans.

omg no

Are certain sweeps low throw punishable. Specifically all out sweeps that have block animations like Bryan fury, Lili, Lei, etc?

Question/Comment/Observation...

upon landing from any hit that leaves you FDFA... you cannot roll to either side.
I cant remember if this was or was not possible in the arcade. You can tech roll, but not roll via the punch buttons ala every other character because of Marduk's special get up moves from this position.

If im dumb and just a noob about something let me know as I dont always want to use those getup moves.

Not ground throw, but you could go for a crouch throw if you are quick enough.

You are better off using WS 3 or uf+1+2 for a juggle.

Those moves only use 2, try 1 instead.