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Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3613
PSN: Slipkicks
#1 “Quote” Edit Post
Devil Jin

Punishment: 5/5
112 is his main punisher from -10 through -13 which is pretty solid, over 20 damage with wake-ups. -14 is EWGF, doesn't get much better than that. He also has some of the best ws moves in the game to punish lows and ducked throws with ws+2 and ws+4,4. For moves with push back he has ff+2 and if your stupid good dewgf.

Offense: 5/5
Hellsweep, one of the best lows in the game, unseeable, over 40 damage with wake-ups. Now give him a 10 frame throws that does over 50 damage and you absoulutely murder turtles. With ff+2 and u/f+4 as safe mids and ws+2, ducking isn't the best option either. Sickness.

Whiff punishing: 5/5
EWGF and dashing EWGF is pretty much it and all he needs. He also has ss+2 and u/f+4 for safeness as well. Pretty much EWGF bakes the cake though.

Keep out: 5/5
EWGF, a 14 frame move that will do half life on hit, good range, fat hit box, unpunishable, and not easy to punish on whiff.

Wake ups: 3/3
Almost all his juggles end in d/f+1,2 which sets up an incredibly sick wake-up game. A practically free hellsweep mixed with a ton of other things to wreak havoc.

Damage: 3/3
His df12, hellsweep ender does more then half life. Laser throw is followed by more damage and maybe even wake ups. Stupid.

Overal Rating: 26/26


Hei

Punishment: 5/5
Twin Pistons, prolly one of the best punishing moves in the game. Anything -13 is destroyed, which is A LOT. -10 he has 112 which is good in itself. -12 he has 1+2. Can punish long range moves with death fist, blocking low pokes he can get ws+4,4 and throws and sweeps and can stand up and twin piston. Stupid.

Offense: 4/5
Hei has got some ridiculous mids in ff+2, f+4, d/f+1+2, deathfist, 1+2, b+2 and the list goes on. Although he doesn't have any scary lows or throws, they are just enough to get the job done. Single hellsweep is annoying and provides a good guessing game afterwards, on CH he gets a juggle. Low backfist gives him frames, fc d/f+4 does nice damage to set up Hei's sick wake-ups and his throws provide great wake-ups if they get off.

Whiff Punishing: 5/5
Like DJ, he's got EWGF and deathfist if they are abusing lows. Not to mention easy-ass twin pistons if anything is whiffed up close.

Keep Out: 5/5
EWGF, like DJ's does half life, fat hit box, hard to punish on whiff, unpunishable. He also has d+1 which is solid as well.

Wake ups: 3/3
He's got the stomp, hellsweep and low backfist, all good options for hitting grounded opponents. He doesn't have a mid option that hits grounded, but if you want to avoid the ground hit you gotta come up to duck, and with Hei's mids, thats not a very good time. d+1 also keeps you from moving so he can setup his damaging lows if you lay there.

Damage: 3/3
EWGF and ff2 combos do half life. He also does about 60 damage from a 13 frame move.

Overall Rating: 25/26


Kaz

Punishment: 5/5
112 and 122 for -10. 1+2 for -12 which is one of the best in the game at that frame disadvantage. EWGF from -14 on up. TP is a huge launcher that punishes a ton of lows and does around half life, when lacking in range he has ws+4,4 which still does a nice chunk. For even longer recovering lows he has ws+2 which also does around half life

Offense: 5/5
With mid like f+4, ff+3, d/f+1,4 d/f+1,2 d/f+2 and lows like d/b+4, HS, d/b+3 he's got all he needs to break a turtle down.

Whiff Punishment: 4/5
He doesn't have enough to punish low pokes/low jabs. EWGF covers all the rest, which is the only reason he's still around the 4 area. he lacks a quick, long range move like DJ's ff2 or Hei's d1 or deathfist. d/f+1,4 works as an OK mid punisher at best, but it doesn't come out too quick.

Keep Out: 5/5
EWGF, a 14 frame move that will do about half life on hit, good range, fat hit box, unpunishable, and not easy to punish on whiff.

Wake Up: 2/3
Kaz's d/f+3 hitting grounded is a great addition to his wakes ups as he now has a safe mid option to go along with the pluthera of lows that already hit grounded like HS, d+4 stomp and d/b+3. If d/f+3 hits a moving opponent he gets a free d/f+4,4 or d/f+1,f+2 spike. If it CH's he gets a juggle. Kaz has great moves to hit grounded opponents but doesn't have too many scenarios to set up his as most his juggles will end in d/f+4,4 or ewgf, his spike juggles often leave the opponent too far away to set up any nasty 50/50's and his catches do not reset. If they did, this would easily be a 5.

Damage: 2/3
Damage in the low to high 50's, low 60's and if your super good mid 60's.


Overall Rating: 23/26


Feng

Punishment: 4/5
-8 Feng gets a b+1, nothing special, but something. -10 he gets 122 which does good damage and good offensive options afterwards. Anything -13 gets reemed with b+1+2 and -15 he gets a launch with hop kick. For lows he has ws+4 for -11 and a good ws+2 and ws+3 for ducked throws and sweeps. Not THE BEST punishment, but definetly better than average.

Offense: 4/5
Feng has got a lot of options to break a turtle down. Great mid pokes like b+4, and d/f+1 are safe and annoying, d/f+3 as a near unpunishable mid launcher is a big help as well. ff+2, d/f+2,2 are also good. He has great low pokes with d/b+3 and d+2. Gaining frames and mixing ss+4 with ss d/f+3 is a nasty guessing game as well. Equipped with a good double breaker Feng has a good arsenal, if he had a unseeable sweep from standing he'd be a 5 no doubt.

Whiff Punishing: 4/5
b+1+2 as his main whiff punisher, its super fast with good range and can catch any twitch of a whiff from his opponent. For bigger whiffs he has u/f+4 and ss+4 deserves an honorable mention. Nothing outstanding, but good.

Keep Out: 5/5
b+4 is prolly the hardest move in the game to punish on whiff. It tracks extremely well so ss'ing it to punish is not an option, extremely fast at 11 frames and nice stubby range so you must be extremely close to Feng in or to try and punish it on whiff which is risky. d/f+1, d/f+4 is also decent.

Wake up: 3/3
Feng's abaility to stay on you after a combo is almost 2nd to none. Most of his combos end in f+4,3 which gives him a horrible guessing game of d+4,1+2 or stomp. The only way out of the stomp is to move, and if you start moving d+4,1+2 will catch and he continues his rush down from there. He also can skip the guessing game and just do a d+4 to sacrifice damage but keep his rush down available. With good wakes off his other juggles and throws as well, his wakes are top notch.

Damage: 2/3
His combos in themselves do good damage alone, then with wake-ups there's a good chance you'll lose more.

Overall Rating: 22/26


Julia

Punishment: 4/5
Julia has f+2,1 and 4 for -10 which is ok at best. -14 she has d/f+3 which is just ok, -15 she has hop kick and -16 being d/f+2,1 and with moves that push back she can get either elbow, 4~2,1 or sometimes even ff+3 which is better than most characters. Blocking low pokes she gets ws+4 and blocking sweeps and ducking throws she gets hop kick.

Offense: 4/5
Mad Axes as her main tool, not even the best throw breakers can say they can break all throws against Julia. 4~2,1 is a good addition as a low poke being only -2 on hit and fc guessing game works as well. Her mid being d/f+1, d/f+3 is nothing special but gets the job done. If she had an unseeable sweep or fast 1 or 2 breaker and/or a more powerful/ranged mid, she'd be a 5.

Whiff punishing: 4/5
Elbow elbow elbow along with d/f+2,1, ff+3 and f+3~1, there's nothing she can't punish on whiff. ff+3 is a grat whiff punisher, dos about half life and only jab punishable with some good distance on it. For safeness she always can do elbow into wakes. d/f+2,1 is great for when a move is ss'ed but risky and f+3~1 is great for punishing move from long range but is high and no real wake-up afterwards.

Keep Out: 5/5
Magic 4 does half life, 121 does over half life. Elbow is extremely annoying as well. Her hop kick is also a good keep out do to its many variants and it also doing about half life

Wake-ups: 2/3
Julia's wake-ups are pretty disgusting if you try and get up, 4~2,1 makes Julia a nightmare on wakes to the point to where its always best to just lay there and take the hit. Although she really doesn't have too much that hits on the ground besides d+3, commited laying opponents will eat her u/f,N 3's and 4's for chunks of life. She needs something from standing that does decent damage to give her a 3.

Damage: 3/3
Has bar none the most damage combos in the game that also wall carry into one of the worst wall games in the game. Any launcher is half life or more with wake-ups. Mad axes with renowned wake-ups and 4~2,1 a safe d/f+3 now make her offense much scarier than in 5.0.


Overall Rating: 22/26


Marduk

Punishing: 3/5
His punishing is OK. 10f 2,1 which gives decent followup, f,f+2 for ~13f, d/b+2 at -14 and d+2,4 at a close -15. -16 is where he gets d/f+1 and -17 he gets d/f+3,d+1 for good damage (60's to mid 70s).

Offense: 4/5
Marduk is all about mount, you simply can't break them all so you have to find ways to counter, of which he has counters for counters so you just have to guess when he starts charging. He also has decent lows with d+4, d/b+4 and fc,d/f+4. He also has solid mids as well. If it wasn't for mount his offense would just be average, but with mount it knocks him up a notch.

Whiff Punishing: 4/5
d/f+3,d+1 is a great whiff punisher for 70's damage. b+4's range is proposterous.

Keep Out: 5/5
Cornered Beast changes the way you have to play the game because this is so good. He also has magic 4 and d/b+1+2 for times when you think you have everything figured out on how to attack him. There's no safe way to go after Marduk.

Wakeup: 3/3
Marduk is an oki monster. Most of his combos end in a slamdown or airthrow for wakeup options. Ground grabs into 50's damage combos for lie and sideroll, d/f+3,1 pickup into 50's damage combos for backrolls. A boatload of mixups for stand. Basically, get up the wrong way against Marduk and you lose a shit ton of life.

Damage: 3/3
Whiff his df+3 whiff punisher does great damage with good wake-ups, d/b+1+2 is a necessary high risk/high reward move. ws+3 does ok with great wakes and mounts do siezable damage with great wakes as well. When Marduk hits you it usually hurts pretty bad.

Overall Rating: 22/26


Bryan

Punishment: 5/5
1,4 for -8. -10 he has 2,3 for 24 damage, and for -10 moves with pushback he has f+1,4 which is prolly the best long range -10 punisher in the game. -13 on up is jet upper, ties Hei as the best -13 punisher in the game. Bryan also has a decent ws game with ws+3, ws+1 for ducked throws and ws+2~F for blocking sweeps. Mach Punch is also the most consistant long range punisher in the game, punishing all push back moves with ease like blazing kick and Hei's ff+2.

Offense: 4/5
To maximize Bryan's offense you need to be a master of the taunt, otherwise his offense is probably a 3. Taunt into 1,4 is cheap, and taunt into jet upper is ridiculous. Otherwise, your probably left doing his low pokes that aren't bad such as d+3, d+4 and d/b+3, all are pretty decent. d+4 is very safe, d/b+3 does good damage and crushes and d+3 gives frames on hit. Has a ton of mids like 3+4, u/f+4, d/b+2, d+2,3 and the list goes on. His throws have good wakes as well, solid stuff all around.

Whiff punishing: 3/5
3_4, b+1 and jet upper as his main whiff punishers. 3+4 is fast with good reach, b+1 has good reach as well and gives a frames on hit and block. Jet upper is good for in close whiff punishing but not easy to do and unfortunetly high. His whiff punishing is good, but no crazy damage for punishing whiffs from afar.

Keep Out: 4/5
3+4 is a nice quick mid that has great range and not easy to punish on whiff unless your lookng for it. If you keen on punishing it on whiff 321 will keep them honest. Magic 4 even harder to punish on whiff and does decent damage on CH. u/f+4 as one of the better crush moves in the game. His jabs witht he range of f+1 are good as well. d/b+3 is also solid. Besides u/f+4 which is slow and eaier to punish now of whiff, he really does get a whole lot of damage for people coming in, but it is solid nonetheless.

Wake-ups: 2/3
Throws wake-ups are really strong after 2+4 throw and double break throws and 1+3 leads to guarenteed d+4's and continued wakes from there on out. Juggles ending in d+3,2 also allow Bryan to run up for oki for guessing game with his low pokes mixed with solid mids and unblockable taunts. His wakes aren't ridiucous, but really safe and really annoying.

Damage: 3/3
All launcher do mid 60's or more. Best punishment in the game hand-down. Bryan makes the smallest mistakes seem huge.

Overall Rating: 21/26


Ganryu

Punishment: 1/5
His -10 punishment is the worst in the game with nothing but the headbutt. -13 he gets a nice chunk with d/f+1,4 and -15 he gets no launch and has to settle with d+1+2. f+2 consistantly hits long range attacks.

Offense: 5/5
d/f+2, d/f+1, d/f+3 d/f+2+3, 1+2, d+1+2 and the list goes on with his amount of safe mids and good lows.

Whiff Punishment: 4/5
df2 for ss/close whiff punishing, and ff1+2 for all other whiff punishments.
ff1+2 leading into combos hurt.

Keep Out: 5/5
d/f+1 has great range, extremely annoying, hard to punish on whiff and if you try he has canned d/f+141 to keep you honest. For greater damage he can do d/f+2, d+2 is alos a long range low poke that is practically unpunishable and goes under a lot of other character's keep out moves.
d/f+2 at close range, ff+1+2 at a distance and ss+1 at close range as well. All of these lead to high damage and wakes, above average for sure.

Wake-up: 3/3
No contest here. 1+2, d+1, df+3, f+2 is all he needs.

Damage: 3/3
Good damage whith his launcher followed by ridiculous wake-ups, or you can do the full combo for still good damage. His lows do great damage with little consequence against most characters as well.

Overall Rating: 21/26


King

Punishment: 4/5
-10 King get a a nice 2,1 that gives a lot of frames. -14 he gets a good poke with d/f+1,2 and -15 its hop kick for half life. With low pokes he can punish with the modest ws+4, but after that hop kick and fc,d/f+2 are very nice -10 gives 1,2/2,1 -14 gets d/f+1,2 -15 gives hopkick into half life. Blocked lows get murdered. -11 gives ws+4 and blocked sweeps get FC d/f+2. Sometimes even hopkick off certain lows. b+3 punishes things like blocked deathfist.

Offense: 4/5
Shining wizard and gs alone are a nasty mix up. With other great throws like tombstone and muscle buster, along with low pokes like d/f+4, d/b+3, multi's and great mids like f+3, f+4, ff+4, d/f+1,2 and even crouch grabs for fun. Hell with the damage hop kick does, its practically worth going for also if he needs to make a comeback.

Whiff Punishment: 3/5
Hop kick for up close for a ton of damage, fc d/f+2 is a good whiff punisher at a distance but unfortunetly you do need to be stuck in crouch to do so. b+3 is solid for distance as well, but nothing special.

Keep Out: 4/5
b+1, d+1,2, d/f+3 and a ridiculous hop kick into half life make attacking King riskier than most.

Wake Ups: 2/3
u/f+3, d/f+3, d/f+1,2 d/b+3 and ground throws are all solid moves to nail people moving or laying on the ground. Good safe moves, but no horrible 50/50's to make his wakes a 5.

Damage: 3/3
His shining wizard combos all do half life, no CH needed. His throws do at least 1/3 of your life plus wake ups. When King hits you he hurts...bad

Overall Rating: 20/26

Last edited by Slips on Sep 6th, 2007 at 20:23

Signature "You still don't know what you're dealing with, do you? A perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility?I admire its purity. A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality."

Slips
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3613
PSN: Slipkicks
#2 “Quote” Edit Post
Steve

Punishment - 3/5
-112_12_121 for -8.
-b+1 and df1,2 for -13
-ff+2, df+1+2 for -14
-df+22, df+1+2 for -16
-uf2, dck2 for anything over -19

Only reason he doesnt get a 5 is because he can't punish -15~-16 with launch punishers like he did in 5.0 with df2. For this reason people can get away with a lot of stupidness without paying the price. If steve could say....punish a -14 with a knee like lee or -13 with fb2 he'd get a 5.

Offense - 3/5
Probably steve's bigger problems is that he doesnt have any low worthy of being ducked. D+21~db is his only safe low that does chip damage, not really even worth ducking. Lows like db32 and d1 will just get you launched on block.

But even if you did duck steve he doesnt exactly have much damaging mids anyway. He still does have a wide array of fast highs and mids that can freeze anyone out. His throws dont have great range like the bigger characters and so he relies on pokes like qcf1. That and spamming flicker jabs ony your opponent. These are much slower and give no frame advantage anymore. Sometimes you have to rely on your sway game and rely on your opponent's mistakes to do any real damage. If steve could do a low worthy of doing combo damage or even a safe low like 5.0 d1 that gives frame advantage he'd get a 4 or 5.

Whiff punishing - 4/5
He's pretty decent in this area. He has df+1+2 and ff+2 with a free low follow up. If you are really on your game you can land a 19 frame dck2 for 40%, not as good as dash ewgf, but it gets the job done. Not really amazing damage sometimes but all these move travel the distance with simple inputs (ff, df, f+3,2) Also ff,n,2 is really big for whiff punish, guaranteed db2!

KeeP Out/ Panic moves - 5/5
Like Marduk, you have to change the way you play the game with Steve sways, attacking him after a lot of his strings is always risky. 121 as always is annoying and b+1 is an equivellent to magic 4.

Wake ups - 3/3
Steve's strongest area imo. He has endless oki set ups that can relaunch his opponent from the ground if they guess wrong and if they stay on the ground they will eat a jump stomp or d+1+2. Against steve the best thing to do is probably just take whatever damage is coming to you instead of getting up the wrong way and getting launched. ext dck1 and dck2 are useful for doing this. Even a df1 on face up feet toward can yield a potential 1/2 life combo. He also can water down combos with dck1 and set up great wake up. I cant really say anything bad about steve's okizeme. It's great.

Damage - 2/3
Steve's worst attribute It's only playing on 100% that sort of saves steve of being a useless character. You need to land launches in tekken to win, but steve's are too slow (19 frames) and so you'll rarely get these done unless your opponent really messes up. His other pokes dont do any damage compared to dj, marduk, nina, raven can do with their easy to land one hit launches. Steve suffers the worst from not being able to big chunks of damage with his pokes. His quickness and evasion sort of compensates for this by avoiding heavy damage himself.

Overall Rating: 20/26


Anna

Punishment - 2
Standard 1,2 for -8 and 10. -13 d/f+1,2 is ok, -14 d/f+3,2 which is still just ok. Her ws id limited to ws+1,2 and ws+4 again just ok. Ducking throws and blocking sweeps she can get a ws+2 or flip kick which is decent at least. The main thing though is not having anything at -15, she does not get a launch until -16 which sucks.

Offense - 4
Good annoying poking game with d/f+1,2 d/f+4, 1,2 strings, but mainly its all about her fc ws+2/swipe mix-up.

Whiff Punishing - 4
For whiff punishing, she has df2 up close, d/f+3 stuff for a further distance, ff+3 is a solid whiff punisher with good damage, f+4 is decent as well.

Keep Out - 4
Solid magic 4 and d/f+1,2 and her jabs make it annoying to try and get in on Anna. Nothing extremely damaging, but annoying.

Wake-up - 3
u/f+3+4 as a safe ground hitting mid hit that keeps the opponent stuck on the ground next to Anna is pretty disgusting. Giving her d+4 pick ups, fc mix-up, d/b+4, running wakes after her juggles and it gets pretty nasty. Her wall wakes are even worse.

Damage - 3
ws+2 and fc d/f+2 both do mid 50's with running wake ups. Her wall game is so unfair compared to most of the cast it must be addressed as well, its ridiculous. On infinite stages Anna is just a normal character, but wall stages she is twice as good.


Overall Rating: 20/26


Jack-5

Punishment - 4/5
He has a 10f jab combo with great reach, that does as much damage as Mishima 1,1,2 with frame advantage. A good 13f (d/f+3+4), and -15 he gets his d/f+2. Certain moves with push back he gets d/f+2 still, and sometimes even f+1+2. .He has something for every situation, but his low max damage means he can't really fuck someone up for messing up.

Offense - 3/5
He has d/b+1 and u~u/f+1+2 and other great throws to keep them ducking, and enough quick mid pokes and power moves to make them scared to duck with megaton punch, u/f+2 and b+2 which cannot be CH. His offense is very linear and the moves he has that track are either very slow or risky.

Whiff Punishing - 5/5
df+2 is just the easiest shit in the world. punishes crouches, reaches half screen, super fast with single input. f+1+2 for far whiff punishing.

Keep Out - 4/5
d/f+2 is pretty much a longer, mid-hitting magic 4. It can't abused as much as its linear and can be punish on block though. d/b+1 is decent, but also ss'able and can be crushed, no real solid follow ups on hit though really, but it is fast and not easy to punish on whiff. 21 and f+2,1 are solid, pretty much his version of magic 4, but no crazy damage on CH, just really annoying.

Wakeup - 2/3
Jack has a lot of oki tools at his disposal to keep pressure on a downed opponent. MGF is a good ranged mid that is safe and hits grounded. f,f+3 does the same but with less range and + frames on block. Debugger and d/f+1+2 are there for grounded opponents as well. d/b+4 for a quick ground/low hit. He also basically gets a free run up d/b+1_d/f+4 mixup on opponents getting up as well. u/f,N+2_SS+1_HCF+1 put pressure on a standing opponent. IMO what keeps him from getting a 5 for wakeup is lack of one or two sureshot reliable oki options/situations like DJ d/f+1,2 ender into CD 4 stuff. He has great wakeup, but a lot of it can be fairly situational.

Damage - 1/3
Jack has great single hit moves, but he has very poor damaging juggles. His maximum punishment being in the 40's is rough. Jack doesn't have any 'bs' moves, like a crush that juggles or an easy CH move that does half life. If Jack beats you its cause he earned it.

Overal Rating: 19/26


Law

Punishment - 3/5
-8 Law gets 112. -10 he gets 112 or 4,3 depending on what you like, both are average. -14 he gets f+4,3 which again is just ok and -15 is hop kick. Certain moves with small pushback like Julia's and Wang's d/f+2,1 or Wang's 111 he's not in range for a hop kick, so has to settle for a f+4,3 which kinda sucks. Moves that have pushback he gets a measeley b+2, but is better than nothing at least. He does has ws+2 as one of the better ws moves in the game so that does help.

Offense - 4/5
Law has f+2+3 which kills turtles. That mixed with ff+3+4 alone is a terrible guessing game. Mix in 2+4 and its great wake-ups and he has one of the best throw games in the game. Now give him f+1+2, a mid that does over 40 damage on hit, launches for half life on CH, tracks, and gives frames on block AND sets up his fc game, and you've got a nightmare for any turtle. If you aren't feeling f+1+2 most characters cannot punish flip kick too badly if at all. He also has instant flying kick mixed with instant ff+3. Oh yeah and he has d/b+3 too. Not having a good long distance mid move kinda hurts as a couple backdashes can cause f+1+2 to whiff being its a slow move.

Whiff punishing - 3/5
ss+3+4 is his only really good whiff punisher, and it is REALLY good. Small pokes like jabs and magic 4 are easily punished with this move if you have it ready, when it hits it sets up a wicked wake-up game. The bad news is you have to be ss'ing to get this move off, so you constantly gotta keep advancing with ss to make it work. Other than that though, he has nothing besides b+2 which is pretty terrible, thankfully, ss+3+4 is all you need.

Keep Out/Panic moves - 4/5
Magic 4, 123, d/f+2, d/f+1, flip kick(s), hop kick, d+2,3 and unchickenable reversal makes attacking Law even with great frame advatnage difficult.

Wake-ups - 2/3
Off ss+3+4 Laws wakes are disgusting, his 2+4, f+2+3 throws also has a solid wakes as well. After his combos he has no real good guessing games but can still apply some pressure at least.

Damage - 3/3
Any launch that Law gets off will do a large chunk of life. Flipkick, ws+2, hop kick, f+1+2 CH all do very good damage (over 60). He also has magic 4 and ss+3+4 into wake-ups can easily do over half life. His throws do good damage as well especially ff+3+4. If he had better and more damaging punishing moves, this might be a 5.

Overall Rating: 19/26

Eddy

Punishment - 3/5
Standard 1,2 for -10 through -12. -13 he gets d/f+1,1 and -14 he gets d/f+2 which is not too shabby. He has one of the best punishers for moves with pushback (like deathfist, blonde bomb ext.) with d/f+3+4. Him not having a move to truly hurt low pokes is rough, and ducking throws he does not get a launcher, u/f+3+4 at best.

Offense - 4/5
A master of rodeo can inflict fear into most turtlers. If they are concentrated on throw breaking chances are you can get them to freeze and force a RLX mix-up where the risk/reward is heavily in Eddy's favor. His lows are also annoying and have great properties of being unpunishable or unparryable or just long and fast. If his low pokes did more damage, he'd be a 5.

Whiff punishing - 4/5
qcf+3 is a great whiff punisher at a distance, up close he's got d/f+3+4 and for safeness d/f+2. Since he lacks a ss, its hard for him to whiff punish pokes, but he does have b+2 and RLX to get under them and force his RLX guessing game which is in his favor.

Keep Out - 4/5
Eddy has got one of the best backdashes in the game. Equipped with a pluthery of keep out and mashable moves moves like d/f+2, iRLX, b+2, d/b+1+2, ss+4, u+4, b+3~3 there's no solid answer to attack Eddy, certain characters can give Eddy problems, but overall he's very solid in this department.

Wake-ups - 2/3
Has got great unpunishable mids that do a lot of damage to grounded opponents forcing them to get up and guess. After his standard combo he has running wake-ups. Only thing he lacks is decently damaging low move to mix-up with his great mids that hit grounded.

Damage - 2/3
Eddy does nice chunks of life off any launcher and with so many moves that launch (qcf+3, d/f+3+4, d/f+2 CH, RLX mix-ups) 1 mistake could cost you half your life or more. His throws are strong as well, but against a good turtle, Eddy doesn't have much to do significant damage.

Overall Rating: 19/26


Baek

Punishment - 3
He gets 1,1_1,2_2,2 outa 10 frame, ws+4,4,3 outa 12 frames, f+1+2,4 outa 14 frame. d/f+2 outa 15 frames, and b+4 outa 16. In general, his punishers don't do much to scary his opponents and are about average.

Offense -3
Baek has good offensive game from range 0-1.5. On surface, he got good mid/low pokes that net him guaranteed damage on normal (ws+"4,4",3, and d/b+3,3) His general poking game is decent, and is possible for custom pseudo-frame traps. His FLA looping, though devastating at glance, can be defeated by carefully ss/sw, as well as characters-specific attacks.

Whiff punishing -3
His best launcher, d/f+2, has no range. CH 4 works only if it interrupted the whiffed strings. Two of his best punishers, 1+2,4_u/f~3+4, have no solid follow-ups. His punishers aren't all that damaging to stop opp's aggression. His high crush-related punishing is good, however. d+3,3 goes under jabs, d/b+4 goes under high attacks.

Wake-ups - 5
Just the ground game alone, his is almost as good as Nina was in 5.0. d+2 catches everything except quick standing. d+4,3,3,3 lifts roll-backs, d/b+3,3 scoops roll back + wall stun, and d+3,3,3 hits everything except rolling on the second hit. His problem, however, is that his launcher isn't as godly as his wake-ups.

Damage- 4
Wall damage, okizeme damage, throw damage, CH damage. All these deal good amount of health off if opp is not careful.

Overall Rating - 18/26


Yoshimitsu

Punishment - 4/5
Yoshi's punishment is superb. Certain moves that characters cant punish, yoshi gets a free flash for 60 damage. for example ganryu's d/f+1+2 blocked, free flash because flash is 5 frames. lots of strings can be interrupted, and moves like lee's u/f+4 and anna's f,f+3, and the generic KND b+3+4 (the slow spring up kick) can be flashed on block aswell, where everyone else will only get jabs.
other then that yoshi has...
-8frames: f,f+4, the 8 frame mid that does 15 and knocks down. he also has a 1,2,1 jab string for 19 dmg.
-12frames: d/f+4, the roundhouse kick that does 17 dmg.
-14frames: u/f+3, hopkick juggle for 50+ dmg
-16frames: d/f+2, one of the best d/f+2's in the game btw, big reach and only -6 on block, 60 damage juggle w/o walls.
-17frames: f+2, into a guaranteed backthrow for 62dmg+good oki, or a BT juggle for max dmg of about 70+dmg. this is a great move for big whiffs or for sidestepping the opponents moves.

Offense - 1/5
Yoshi is a victim of bad tracking, lacks a solid low that can pressure, bad throw range, and lacking a damaging/safe mid. He can only rely on tricks and shenanigans to get penetrate a turtle's shell.

Whiff Punishing - 4/5
Once again d/f+2 and f+2 have great range for juggle starters. f,f+4 punishes pretty much any whiff, FC d/f+3 is useful sometimes, u/f+3 is good for close range. and f+3+4 is probly the longest range punisher in the game.

Keep Out/Panic moves - 3/5
d/f+2 and ss+1 are very solid moves that you have to watch out for that do very good damage, but a lil slow Flash is very fast but require opponent to attack at close range. d/f+4 is annoying as well but no big damage. Good stuff, but nothing crazy.

Wake ups - 3/3
Yoshi's oki is extremely damaging, and alot of the times if yoshi guesses right, oki is reset. Swordsweep catches tech's(duh). f+3+4 catches opponents who roll back or try to stand straight up after a spike juggle. d/f+1+2 is a good addition to his wakes as a low hit that does decent damage and catches side rollers. d+1 is guaranteed in alot of situations, esp after throws and spike juggles. and dont forget his FC mixup, which isnt a 50/50, because there are 3 scary options, mid,low and unblockable.

Damage - 3/3
He does pretty solid damage for the most part. 60 dmg off of d/f+2. 60 dmg off of CH ss+1. 53 dmg off of u/f+3. swordsweep does a shitload when you factor in the oki mixups afterwards. also flash staple juggle does 63 dmg. and if there are walls, his wall game is solid.

Overall Rating - 18


Lee

Punishment - 5/5
Best 8 punisher in the game with 1,2,4. -10 he gets 1,2,4 or 2,1 for better frame adv but less damage. Long distance -10 frame punisher with f+4 is also nice. -14 on up Lee gets u/f+4 which is good. Moves with slight pushback he gets acid storm and moves with further pushback he gets b+1,1,2 for a nice chunk. ws he has ws+3,3 for -10 and -14 Lee gets u/f+4 knee launcher which is one of the better ws arsenals in the game.

Offense - 2/5
Lee has got a great mid with b+4 and other annoying mid pokes. However him not having a better double breaker and better low makes his offense just somewhat threatening. All his lows pokes do good damage; fc, d/f+4, d/b+4, d+3, d/b+3 and slide, they are all very punishable unfortunetly so in order for him to break through a turtle he's got to take some risk. His throws have good wake ups though if they get off and a good Lee can keep the momentum going with his low pokes to start doing significant damage.

Whiff Punishing - 3/5
ff+3 and b+1,1,2 are his main whiff punishers from afar, acid storm is decent as well. d/f+2 and u/f+4 up close. Not bad, but no launchers from afar makes his whiff punishing average.

Keep Out/Panic Moves - 4/5
44, b+4, bb+4, and d/f+4 are great moves, not only for CH purposes but also leading into hitman to cause whiffs. u/f+4 is a great low crush move as well as d+3 for high crush.

Wake-ups - 2/3
Lee's throws have good 50/50 wakes with d/b+3 mixed with d+4,4,4,4. Double breaker provides good tech wakes as well. Juggles ending in 2,1,2 set up his fc game which leads to some decent guessing games, but nothing that safely hits on the ground and no mid that hits the ground lessens the threat of his spike juggle. Again, his wakes are good, but nothing overwhelimg.

Damage - 2/3
His juggles off knee and d/f+2 do mid to upper 50's which is average, but with the damage of b+4 and blazing kick doing upper 60's his damage is slightly above average. His punishment is more painful than most and his low pokes, although punishable, do decent damage enough to cause people to duck.

Overall Rating: 18/25


Last edited by Slips on Jun 1st, 2007 at 01:24

Signature "You still don't know what you're dealing with, do you? A perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility?I admire its purity. A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality."

Slips
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3613
PSN: Slipkicks
#3 “Quote” Edit Post
Paul

Punishment - 5/5
Paul punishes moves pretty hard. 8 frame jabs, d+1+2 for -12 moves which is verysolid. -15 he gets hop kick; DF for distant punishing; ws+4 for punishing low pokes for a nice chunk of life, ws+2 for ducking throws and certain sweeps and u/f,n,4 for big sweeps. If the move can be punished, Paul can punish it pretty well.

Offense -3/5
Paul's offense is nothing scary, but nothing to complain about either. b+2 is a solid mid, tracks very wel, unpunishable and sets up a solid wake-up for Paul. It also has the same start-up as falling leaf, which also tracks very well and does good dmg. His throws are decent and ss+3 also has its moments. DF also serves as a good mid for characters who can't punish it very well.

Whiff punishing - 4/5
Deathfist. Thats it. A decent whiff punisher. I'd much rather have something that launched reliably, but hey, deathfist is ok. Damage is only there on CH tho. For whiffs it doesnt do anything better than any other characters deathfist type move. In close df2 is a lofe saver though.

Keep Out/Panic Moves - 3/5
d+1, magic 4, qcb+1 are his main keep out moves. Shredder kicks are an annoying low crush as well. Nothing great, but not bad either.

Wake-ups - 2/3
His wake-ups off throws are either non existant or very generic. His combos lead to 0 wake ups as well. If you do lay there, he does have solid hitting moves that hit grounded. b+2 has some noteable wakes as well, so its not horrible.

Damage - 1/3
Pauls combos do very average damage. DF does a nice chunk for a whiff punisher, but nothing amazing. Even with CH's Paul struggles to do half life.

Overall Rating: 18/26


Nina

Punishment - 3/5
Main reason, is nina doesnt launch until i15, and that i15 move has bad range.
8f = 1,2 / 1,4
10f = f+1,2 / f+1,4
13f = d/f+1,2
14f = d/f+3,4 / f+3
15f = 1+4 / d/f+2
16f = b+1+4
19f = d/b+3+4
her ws punishment game is simple, ws+4, ws+2 for 15f launch, and ws+1,2 for close range. ws+2 doesn't have much range. Believe me when I say that

Offense - 2/5
Pretty standard offense. Decent throws, ok lows and a solid mid. 2+4 does good damge with good wakes, 1+3 has great wakes and could be very damaging d/f, d/f+1 43 plus a good position and a buffered u/f+1+2 is so quick. She has d/f+1,2 as her main mid poke tool and b+1+2 as her main damaging mid. ss+1+2 should be noted as a solid mid as well. 8f jabs, 1+4, ss+1 etc. u/f+1 has some nice gimmicks too. Her lows are very punishable but they are there as an option if throws are not working.

Whiff punishing - 4/5
ss+2, b+1+4. Thts all you really need. ss+2 at i13 is a beast. ou whiff from a distance b+1+4 eats you up. /b+3+4 for the bad whiffs. other than that f+3, d/f+3,4 for smaller stuff.

Keep Out/Panic Moves - 4/5
ss+1, d/f+1,2 are annoying to try and get in on. b+4 CH leads to horrendous damage. u/f+1 is fairly safe on whiff, good low crush and is also great damage on CH.

Wake-ups: 2/3
Her throws wakes ups are pretty strong with d+4,1 shut up, wtf and u/f+1. Her juggle don't lead to any real wake ups unfortunetly, leaving her with an average score.

Damage - 2/3
61 dmg off of d/f+2
64 dmg off of ws+2, ss+2
67 dmg off of b+1+4
70 dmg off of d/f+3+4
those are all on normal hit. 80+ damage on a ch f+3 or b+4

Overall Rating - 17/26


Lei

Punishment - 3/5
Has a guaranteed 1,2 string that is 8 frames but doesn't have much else until 14 frames where gets a 3. At 15 frames he gets hopkick or d/f+2. His WS moves are OK, little better than 5.0 with ws+2,1 and gets u/f+4 or u/f,N,4 for moves with longer recovery. His punishment isn't bad, but nothing special.

Offense - 4/5
Lei has great 50/50 mixups out of his many stances. ff+2 is a nice tracking launcher that is safe against almost all WS moves. Has GREAT throws and lows. Generic d+4 is safe and an lead to stance, 7 frame throw, BT d+1, panther stance mix-up, and sweep. Has moves that grant frame advantage on block like ss+2,2, d/f+1, jab, f,N,3,4, and 3~4. u/f+3 as his unpunishable mid sets up a lot of crane stance shenanigans, unfortunely it only does 25 damage, if he had a more damaging mid he'd have a 5.

Whiff punishing - 3/5
Has a generic safe d/f+2 for close whiffs or those fuzzy whiffs where you aren't sure if the opponent will be able to block in time. Has nearly safe ff+2 and ff+3 for long whiffs. Has ss+4 and PLD 3+4. Both are safe on block. If ff+3 or ff+2 was just a LIL quicker to the point where he could punish small pokes on whiff OR unpunishable, it'd be a 4.

Keep Out/Panic moves - 5/5
Play dead variants are annoying, magic does good damage and rr works nicely as well to keep people from rushing in. His animal stances with their ss properties and special properties make attacking Lei a problem. He has great crush moves with d/b+4 and a safe u/f+3 doing half life. Attacking Lei can be a pain in the ass in the right hands.

Wake ups - 1/3
His juggles lead to no wakes and his throws lead to generic wakes as well. Not his strong point to say the least.

Damage - 1/3
Combos just did mid to upper 50's. Him having a sweep that does over 40 pts of damage is always nice. Nothing does half life without a CH unfortunetly.

Overall Rating: 17/26


Wang

Punishment - 3/5
For -8 to -9, 1,4
For -10 to -13, WS+4(i11), 2,3 or the safer 1,4 and d/f+4(i12)
For -14, b+2,1,1,4 *unless the opponent's Steve, Raven, Chreddy, Asuka
For -15, b+2,1,1,4, u/f+3(Near)
For -16 to -20 and blocked/parried lows, u/f+4, f+4, d/f+2,1 d+1+2(Bad Recovery moves -20)
-20 and above and long range whiff punishing, d+1+2

Offense - 3/5
Wang has everything he needs to break down a turtle. f+4 and b+2,1 for damaging/safe mids, some of the best set of throws in the game and damging low pikes and bow and a decent fc guessing game to keep the pressure.

Whiff punishing - 4/5
DF is one of the better whiff punishers in the game. b+2,1 has good range as well and a lil safer and d/f+2,1 up close for big damage.

Keep Out/Panic Moves - 4/5
Magic does a nice chunk of life and fast. b+2~1 can be annoying as well as a keep out. b+3 should be noted as well. d/b+3, ss+4 and d+3 are good high crushes. Hop kick for low crush and 111 as a risky mashable half life gank. His b+1 when used effectively is great high damage reversal move as well.

Wake-ups - 1/3
His throws put him in great position for wake-ups as well as bow and arrow. However, not having a solid wake up off his juggles just gives him a below average score.

Damage - 2/3
His juggles do about average damage and his lows are average damage as well. His wanning moon is strong but unfortunetly the only real thing you have to look out for damage wise.

Overall Rating : 17/26


Raven

Punishment - 1/5
He has an 8 frame 1,2 that is pretty much his only punishing tool. He has NOTHING for 11-14 frames. His standing launcher is 16 frames, df+2. His ws+1 is a good ws move for throws and sweep but horribly punishable if blocked. Him having to settle with 1,2 at -15 frames on down has to be the worst, and the fact he only gets a f+4 for blocking moves with pushback doesn't help (most of the time f+4 doesn't reach). He gets a 1.

Offense - 3/5
His normal throws are decent, 1+3 often gives a free db+4 into a very good situation afterwards in different cases. His df+1+4 and also a good double breaker so his throws are above average. His mids are decent with d/f+1, d/b+2,2 and f+2 as his unpunishable mids, but unfortunetly don't do much damage. His lows are fairly good. d+3 deals little damage but is safe and gives good advantage for throws. db+3 is a good low that gives a very nice adv on hit, but can be jabbed easily into a small juggle. It does low crush however and knockdown on CH for a free hit. db+4 crushes highs for a meaty b+3. His spiniroonie flies out of qcf, for yet another free hit. qcf+2 is a fairly safe low that leads to over 40 damage into Raven's wakeup game. Sick. If Raven had a more abusable, damaging/safe mid to compliment his good throws and lows, he'd be a 4.

Whiff Punishing - 4/5
4~3 is an amazing whiff punisher. It has really good range and low crushes. Leads to great damage too. df+2 whiff punishes very well up close also.

Keep Out/Panic Moves - 2/5
Raven can't safely fish for good CH damage without taking a risk. d/f+3 does good damage but his ass on whiff. Same with 2,4. Other than that, all he's really got is d/f+1, jabs, d/b+2,2 and a really good ss to keep people off him, they don't do much damage unfortunetly. His crush moves are ok with d/b+4 as a high crush and u/f+3 and u/f+4 as low crush.

Wake Ups - 3/3
All of Raven's juggles can end with b+44 which put him in prime position for SDW wakeups. He gets a ton of juice during SDW wakeups. SDW f+1 leads to a free juggle which can end rounds. ff+3+4 and SDW f+3+4 offer a mid/low mix-up a meaty hit, and ff+3+4 can also lead to a nice little juggle to boot. SDW 2,4 is a safe two hits that lead to a mini juggle on hit. Pretty nice stuff. While he's not backturned, db+3, uf+3, b+3, db+4, and f+3+4 mixups offer a ton of damage as well. Around a wall, raven can easily corner an opponent and mix it up for the win with these moves.

Damage - 3/3
His juggles do decent damage, around 60 a piece, but the wake ups that follow can quickly lead to 80+ damage in a hurry. His wall game, f+3+4,4,2 deals a hefty chunk and his normal juggle wall carries very well, combining for a lot of juice. f+3+4,4,2 on the wall leaves you in very good position afterwards for wake up too.

Overall Rating: 16/26


Asuka

Punishment: - 1/5
-10 through -14 she's forced to use 4 which is pretty bad. -15 she gets 2, but has to be close. -15 at a distance b+2,1+2 is ok. -16 she finally gets consistant good damage with 1+2. Good distance punishing with f+1+2 and f+2 at times is useful as well. Her ws is decent with -14, but can't get a launch fc until -19 which is really rough. She has easy punishing and can punish effectively, but unfortunetly they do little damage compared to the rest of the cast.

Offense - 4/5
Tons of useful mids and lows that are unpunishable or well nigh unpunishable on block and they all set something else up if they're blocked or if they hit. Doesn't matter. She tracks both directions well, has a useful unblockable, has an unbreakable mid grab for pressure, and has a thousand safe launchers on block. Retarded. Add the fact that many of her pokes on hit leave you right next to her in disadvantage and you can see that she forces mistakes well. Turtling her kinda sucks, attacking her is even worse. If her poke pressure game did a little more damage, this would probably be a 5.

Whiff Punishing - 4/5
Punishing up close she has 1+2 and 2, both are very good as they are safe on block for fuzzy whiff punishes. At distances she has f+2, and f+1+2 and u/f+4 which are good. Good whiff punishing overall, nothing crazy like Jack's d/f+2 or TP or EWGF, but very good.

Keep Out/Panic moves - 3/5
Magic 4 but no really good juggle after it hits, she has great crush moves in u/f+3, u/f+4 d/+2 and d/b+4.

Wake-Ups - 3/3
Lying opponents eat d/b+3 (15 damage but low risk); 3+4 (slow but hits committed sleepers); and 3~4 (riskier but hits ground rollers and does nice damage). Tech rollers can expect lots of love from horrible f+3 guess your spin/unblockable/cancel etc. etc. games or eat some unbreakable d/b+1+2 mid grab as well as the standard throw/mid/low guessing games that people love. Backrollers love f+2, and if that isn't in range or timed well, they might like f+2 cancels or some long range iWS+3+4 pressure to gauge the opponent's next move. 1+4 picks people up like no other, and d+3+4 beats both wake-up 3 or 4 if the situation is right. Lots of her throws, combos, and knockdowns put opponents in situations for these games to come into play much of the time.

Damage - 1/3
Overall pretty average damage. Unless she lands a CH F/C d/f+2, she's not gonna get over half life. Her relative ease of execution and overall safety it would make sense that huge damage comes with CH only. Still, her massive plethora of normal hit launchers will grant you what I would consider launcher class damage (50pts. plus), but just barely. Still, the reward is pretty balanced considering how easily she can force/pressure a mistake by being so safe and difficult to avoid.

Overall Rating: 16/26


Jin

Punishment - 5/5
Standing Punishers
- 21_24 for -10f or worse moves
- df1 for -13
- EWHF_d3+4 for -14
- uf4 for -15
- ff2_f4 for -16 as distance punisher
Low Punishers
- ws4 for -11
- ws12 for -13
- ws2 for -14

Offense - 3/5
Jin has solid mids that do chunk of life such as d/f+4, f+4, ff+3, good mid pokes in d/f+1,4 and annoying lows with d+4, d+3,3 cd+4 for a sweep and launchers with cd+1 and hop kick along with ok throws. Nothing special, nothing terrible.

Whiff Punishing - 3/5
Jin has trouble punishing whiffs at a distance effectively. Dash ewhf is prolly his best bet, but unfortunetly doesn't launch like he'd like it to be. On top of that he has no real long range mid whiff punish, against his best bet is prolly a f+4 or ff+2. Still very eh. Whiff moves up close he gets the standard hop kick at least.

Keep Out/Panic Moves - /5
Wake Ups: 1/3
Good wake-ups off his 2+4 and u/f+1+2 throws but that is it unfortunetly. All juggles and other knock downs lead to 0 wakes at all.

Damage: 2/3
Jins damage aint that high, his average juggle damage is high 50s low 60s area. But he does get a great deal amount of damage off of just poking, df14 NC on CH i believe it's 32_30 on hit. Jin aint really to much of launched based character like true mishimas, but he does get juggles in off of SS something they whiff you hopkick. Or just CH hunting as well, f4 into cd~iws12~ff~f4 for i believe 68 damage. But as in just regular launcher juggles he doesnt get to much, cd1 he gets 65-66 damage but thats about the highest he'll get off a launcher that could potentially get you launched as well.

Overall Rating: 16/26


Hwoarang

Punishment - 3/5
-10 he gets 1,2. -12 he gets b+4 for a nice chunk. -15 d/f+2 and -17 b+3 . Average stuff. ws moves he gets ws+4,4 at -11 blocked lows, -15 and ducked throws is ws+3 and for sweeps he gets juicy hop kick. Again pretty average stuff.

Offense - 3/5
Hwoarang doens't have any *scary* lows, but they are annoying and more abusable than most low pokes in the game. d/b+3 being -13 with a +3 is a nice way to get in with frames and little consequence. ss+4 is a great low getting +9 on hit and setting up some nasty RFF mix ups afterwards, its also not launch punishable and on CH does close to half life. d/b+4,4 with the 2nd hit now nonduckable if the first hits should also be noted. On top of that his throws are very good. Neck break throw does good damage, qcb+3 does great damage with wake ups and d,d/b+1+2 double break also does decent damag ewith good wake up. Hwoarang's mids are also decent out of cd with ff+3, ws+4,4 and ws+3. He can also run up and do u+3+4 with jump glitch as a hard to see mid with decent juggle. His mids out of RFF are great as well with 2, f+4~4 and d/f+4. Playing a good throw breaker however he only has annoying lows to do damage, but at least they are not very punishable.

Whiff Punishing - 3/5
b+3 and d/f+2. B+3 has good range, good damage and is decently fast, however if you misjudge he is screwed hard. Lacks a farther whiff punisher besides b+3.

Keep Out/Panic Moves - 2/5
b+2 is ok, d/f+2, d/f+3,4 and d/f+3,3 is ok but either risky on whiff or not too damaging. Ok high crush with d/b+3 and risky high crush with d+4,4, Bon just doesn't have a whole lot of scary stuff to get hit by that is safe unfortunetly.

Wake-ups - 2/3
Depending on what juggle he does, he's got some interesting wakes. Juggles that spike into RFF warrants a free 3 and if they move he gets a whole new juggle. If they continue to lay there and take the 3 then he can start doing ff+3. Not bad. His throws have decent wakes as well, but nothing inredibly scary.

Damage - 3/3
His d/f+2 does normal damage, but the launcher he prolly hits with the most is b+3 and that does half life without a CH. And with CH's he can get over half life which is nasty If your lucky enough to get a jf sky rocket he can get well over half. His command throws with wakes do good chunks of life as well.

Overall Rating: 16/26


Xiaoyu

Punishment - 2/5
Standing punishment includes (f+)1,d+2_d/f+4 on 8-14 frame punishment depending on range, and f+3, 4~3_d/f+2~1_b+4 on 15-up depending on range. Crouching punishment includes WS+4 on 11-15, cc~d/f+2~1_u/f+3+4 on 16-21 frame low moves, and WS+2? on 22-up moves. Generally average punishment on paper, but is badly hurt due to her poor range in game.

Offense - 3/5
Her throws are really nothing special, no small window breaks, no high damage or juggle producing throws. She does however get good wake up after some of them. 1+3 gives a free d+4 or a strict timed d/f+2~1, d/f+1+2 gives a free fairly strict timed d/f+2~1. Her lows are slow, not very damaging, and just not a strong point in her game. Her knockdown lows are both blockable on reaction, and both are badly punishible by the majority of the cast. The redeeming factor to her lows is that d/b+4_SS+4_RDS D+3 are CH launchers, and her low damage lows generally give good advantage on hit. Her poke mids are low-mid damage with good advantage on hit, but usually none give offensive presence on block. Her juggle mids and power mids have always given the opponent more reason to stand than duck. She has the tools to eventually get a turtle to come out of their shell, but doesn't come as easy as most.

Whiff punishing - 2/5
d/f+2~1 is a good up close whiff punisher, but from a distance she really is lacking with u/f+3+4 as her best and only doing 30 damage with no wakes.

Keep Out/Panic Moves - 4/5
AoP is a great high crush, crushes some mids as well and provides good whiff punishing and/or mix-ups although the lows are lacking in damage. Magic 4 with practice does a lot of damage. ff+3 is annoying, tracks and gets a lot of life on CH. She also has parry and a lot of movement BT to scare people from attacking her. Her new BT auto-parry moves has uses also.

Wake-Ups - 2/3
Her wake-up after her throws isn't bad. Run up 1+2, 4~3 is a big notable as her backroll catch. RDS 2~2 ender gives a good wake with RDS d+3_RDS ff+3 and setups. The XMTS ender still as always gives reason to not play possum against Xiaoyu. Wall wake is strong with jumpover RDS 4 if they tech and SS+4_4~3 if they stay down. The reason she isn't a 3 is because she has good mids that hit grounded, but her lows are lacking to create a good mixup.

Damage - 2/3
Her standard juggles do over 60 damage which is pretty good. Magic 4 does 58 damage, against veyr nice. Her lows are limited in damage however and to actually get her opponent in the air she has to take a bit amount of risk.

Overall Rating: 15/26


Last edited by Slips on Jun 1st, 2007 at 01:33

Signature "You still don't know what you're dealing with, do you? A perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility?I admire its purity. A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality."

Slips
Iron Fist God
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3613
PSN: Slipkicks
#4 “Quote” Edit Post
Roger Jr.

Punishment - 2/5
1,2 for -10, -13 he gets d/f+1+2 which has good range and can punish moves like sonic fan. Then he has hop kick at -15. Nothing crazy, not getting too much damage besides d/f+1+2 for -14 is below average.

Offense - 3/5
df+4 may rank as one of the best pokes in the game. Safe, annoying mid. Overall he has some great mids, df+1,2 and df+4 are extremely efficient, df+1 on CH is a good amount of juice also. f+1,2,1,2 is nasty on CH. Safe and easy to use, leads to half life fast. his throw game is great, he's got a wide range of throws to use, however his range is extremely poor, he really has to dig deep to land those throws. ss+4 is a very efficient low, crushes highs well and even some mids. hella unsafe on block put can be used much like Feng's ss+4 for a ton of damage. he doesn't have any great low pokes overall, just d+4. db+3 and ss+4 are pretty punishable on block, so overall nothing cept d+4 to abuse.

Whiff Punishing - 3/5
ff+2 is a solid whiff punisher, dishes out decent damage. uf+4 is alright for close big whiffs. ss+4 is great for catching mistakes during ss.

Keep Out/Panic Moves - 4/5
ss+4 goes under a lot of moves including mids. d/f+4 is really hard to punish on whiff and has good range, 1212 CH does great damage. d+1,2 is a good low crush and also has hop kick.

Wake Up - 2/3
Ok wakes off of throws and running wake-ups off juggles, nothing special but not bad.

Damage - 3/3
his juggles only do average damage, but the damage out of f+1,2,1,2 and walls is pretty insane. easily half life out of f+1,2,1,2 and around walls he has a ton of damaging options, especially animal godfist. ss+4 and tail sweep damage for a low is great as well.

overall Rating: 16


Armor King

Punishment - 4/5

This is by far and foremost the strongest area of his game. He has all the tools to punish whatever comes his way.

- 1,2 punishes 8f
- 2,1 punishes 10f
- f+1+4 punishes 14f
- DU punishes 14f
- u/f+4 punishes 15f

He also has hopkick out of WS, making a good punisher for ducking throws.
Both his 8f and 10f punishment do decent damage but with the added bonus of giving him serious +frames to continue with his offense. His punishment although not the best in the game, is definetly up there.

Offense - 2/5
Absolutley piss weak. AK has nothing with which to lockdown his opponent. He have absolutley no strings that can manage such a feat, granted they are all duckable, leading to a launch. I'll give an example. Take d/f+2,1. This is one of the few and better string attacks he has, now lets look at its properties. Firstly start up frames are decent with a 14f initiation but it goes wrong when you look at its block and hit frames. Both these frames are negative. So on block he is at a disadvantage and on hit he is at a disadvantage too, but lets add one more problem to the string, the second hit is duckable. No help there. The majority of AK's movelist is all comprised of single hits i.e. d/f+1_d/f+4_b+1_b+2 etc. Whilst these moves are decent in their own right, they do not give the frames needed to further our offense. If we choose to follow up with anything we will be promptly jabbed out of it. AK's lack of a low has forced us into a situation where our mix-ups are just relied upon mids and throws. This is no way to play a character as throws are often jabbed out of or ducked and punished. All of AK's lows are punishable by a launcher (barring generic d+4), leaving us with a very poor mix-up game. As a result of this, AK has turned into a defense character, often turtling and forcing the mistake out of the opponent, it is no easy way to play a character and requires a high level of knowledge and skill to be able to win with him.

Whiff punishment - 4/5
No complaints here as he does have decent tools.
DU - Basically the whiff punisher of choice, leads to good damage
f+1+4- Is for whiffs that leave opponents in crouch, which a DU will not hit.
1+2,2 - Although DU will be the better choice this still has a use if there is a wall behind your opponent, causing a wall stun.
f+2,1 - Another one where DU should take priority but just stating it as it does do decent damage and has some reach. Good for getting wall splats.
Nothing spectacular but something do be wary of.

Kee Out/Panic Moves - /5

Wake up - 2/3
Another area where AK is half decent. His wakeups will cause havoc if you mix it up well. His tools are:
u/f+3+4- The only reason this is great is because it forces crouch on your opponent and you can tech immediatley to follow up with some more pressure. On hit this does good damage.
d/f+1_d/f+4- safe mids which on hit give you enough frames to get your mix-ups going. Also there to keep your opponent standing to allow throws to be landed.
Throw- When you have trained your opponent to stand then start using throws. His throws are quite damaging and aren't to easy to spot if mixed up. Although his throws have shocking wakes afterwards, the damage they inflict is quite good.

Damage - 2/3
Another area, which although decent is far from great. His juggles do reasonable damage hovering around the 60 damage mark, but they are quite unreliable and extremely difficult, forcing players to go for lesser damage but safety.
His wall damage is horrible.
Single hits are decent enough.

Overall Rating: 15


Kuma

Punishment ? 4/5
Kuma?s punishers are very good. You have f+1 for 8f, 2,1 for 10f, f+2,1 for 12f and d/f+2 for 14f. His d/f+2, although safe in DR, doesn?t launch crouchers anymore. He has a great WS punisher in WS+1 which is 13 frames and can lead to good damage. His f+1+2 can punish stuff like deathfist very easily, and you can use his f,f+2 to punish heavy sweeps into half life combo.

Part of what makes Kuma?s punishment so good is his range. While most characters can?t punish stuff like DJ?s ws+1,2 or Eddy?s d/f+2, Kuma can do it pretty easily because of his arms? long range.

A downside to his punishment is that his WS+4 is not all that good because of Kuma?s short legs. On the other hand, instead of using WS+4 you can use FC 2 which has decent range.

Offense - 1/5
Unless you?re the kind that likes to take huge risks, Kuma?s offense is very poor. He lacks good mids (d/f+2 and d/f+4 have poor range, f,f+2 is too slow) so you have to rely on stuff like f+1 and d/b+2 (high and low). If you like taking risks then you can maybe use his HBS and ROL stances, but it?s pretty much 50/50 stuff that can get you killed if you guess wrong, or if the opponent knows how to get out by either SS/SW/backdash or jumpover.

His lows from standing aren?t all that great either. His d/b+2 got boosted in DR (went from -14f to -13f on block and now causes PLD on CH, which is great) but it?s really just chip damage. The new low f+3+4 I guess is ok but it can be seen on reaction if your opponents are used to it, is linear and is ?death on block. d/b+3 is good (+frames on hit, safe on block) but has no range.

His throws are decent, and can lead to good damage if opponent doesn?t know how to get up properly.

I should also mention that his offense is even worse when playing against characters that can punish his f,f+2 properly. Eddy completely neutralizes Kuma since not only can he rape Kuma?s f,f+2 on block, his d+4 will keep Kuma away all day (crushes f+1, can?t be punished at max range by Kuma?s WS+1). Bryan is also a tough match with his annoying lows and mach breaker to punish Kuma?s f,f+2.

Whiff Punishing ? 3/5
His whiff punishing is so-so. Most of the time you?ll be doing f+2,1 to punish whiffs. His d/f+2 doesn?t give that much damage, and if the whiff left the opponent crouching, you get no launch off it. Ass is pretty good too, although risky if not timed correctly (very unsafe on block). If it?s a bad whiff then yeah you can go for f+1+2 or f,f+2 or even b+3+4 which lead to awesome damage (reason why I gave him a 3).

Keep Out/Panic Moves - /5

Wake ups - 2/3
His wakes are mediocre and pretty much 50/50 all the time. If you have your opponent used to eating lows on wakeup then you can start mixing it up with mids (but again, there?s no real reason to duck against Kuma).

Near the wall Kuma can mix people up pretty good on wake up since his HBS and ROL become more deadly (harder to get out of by SS/SW, can?t backdash).


Damage ? 3/3
This is Kuma?s best area IMO. His punishers do good damage (f+2,1 and stuff like f+1+2 into f,f+2). If you manage to hit stuff like f,f+2 or HBS 1+2 or b+3+4 or ROL 1+2 it?s half life or near half life of the opponent. CH f+1, 2,1 is awesome for a safe 8f jab and can be hit confirmed, without risking getting punished like Julia/Wang and their 8f 1,1,1s. Also, even though it?s not too common, catching someone with CH d/f+1,2,1,2 does a good chunk as well. CH d/b+2 got a damage boost, now giving a guaranteed dash 1+2.

Ass does the same damage as EWGF, his new lows do good damage (f+3+4 and HBS spins). His wall combo isn?t as great as other characters (2,1,3) but like mentioned before, his HBS/ROL mixups are greater there.

Overall Rating - 15


Dragunov

Punishment - 3/5
Standing punishment includes 1,3(i10) on 10-11, d/f+4(i12)_d/f+1(i13) on 12-13, f+4,4(i14)_b+2,1(i15)_d/f+2(i15) on 14-up, qcf+1+2(i12) on pushbacks. Crouching punishment includes WS+4(i11)_WS+1+2(i12) on 11-12, WS+2(i15)_u/f+4(i22) on 15-up. Nothing special, but not that bad either. 3 out of 5.

Offense - 3/5
His throws are a strong part of his game, although compared to others he gets the short end of the stick. f+1+4 and f+2+3 throws are i10 frames with above average damage, and ff+1+2 is ok damage despite the needed dash. Tackle is easily broken and the followups are ok damage at best, but they are a pure guess on the opponents part. Dragunov's lows while they can be annoying sometimes really don't make opponents duck. His d/b+3 is good in speed despite being readable and his poke lows d+4_d+2_d+3 are good, but nothing really special. Dragunov's mids are the strongest point in his game. d/f+4's range is sick, d/f+1 while not Raven good it is still good, and u/f+3 is your friendly neighborhood foot to the face. qcf+2 is a good launcher that's only jab punishible and can even avoid that jab punishment from short ranged jabbers like Xiaoyu with a followup qcb+2. Overall he has some good throw/mid tools, but with no strong mid/low mixup, and very bad tracking issues leaves him with a 3 out of 5.

Whiff punishing - 3/5
d/f+2 for close range whiffs, WS+2_WS+1+2 for ducked whiffs, and qcf+2 for distance whiffs. He has what he needs, but nothing more than that. No brainless launchers and nothing fast with range gives him a 3 out of 5.

Keep Out/Panic Moves -4/5
Drag has an ok Magic 4, great low crush with u/f+4 and good high crushes with d+2, d+3 and d/b+3. b+3+4 auto-parrys punches which is useful and qcb+2 has its uses as well.

Wake-Ups - 2/3
His stomp for grounded opponents, d+4,1,3_d+4,4_ff+4_f+2+3 for rollback, f+2+3_qcf+4_d/b+1+2, 1 for sideroll. He has spike juggles, but are garbage without successful oki. A lot of ways to get you for moving on the ground, but not a whole lot of ways to get you just laying there. Adding that, and the risk it is for Dragunov to try his catches leaves him with a 3 out of 5.

Damage - 1/3
Good damage overall from his CH's to his power high/mid/lows, but his juggles only reach the 50-60 mark even with his best launchers in play. Only qcf+2 leads to big damage which is slow and very linear.

Overall Rating: 16/26


Lili

Punishment: 3/5
Standing punishment includes 123 for 10~11 but puts her at -7, 1+2 for 12~14 with an additional df3+4 if they dont tech,hopkick for 15, qcf1 or d22 for 17, and d3+4 for 18+.
Crouching punishments include ws4 for 11~14, hopkick for 15, and ws2 for 18+. Her d22 has great reach, and will punish pushback moves like deathfist and blazing kick.

Offense: 3/5
All her throws lead to great wakeup games. She has great mids and ok lows. Her annoying df1, great evading qcf1, random ss hopkicks, and her df3+4 flips.
For lows, she has d1 which tracks a bit to her right and high crushes, the risky but tracks & high crush db4, db3 leading to combos with great wakeups, the unseeable ff4, and her FC df3 slide.
For tracking she has the short range but unpunishable f3 mid, high but + frames on block f4, and db4 which is risky but high crushes.

Whiff punishing: 3/5
1+2, hopkick, df3+4 depending on distance. She has the second best hopkick in the game (after Julia), but afterall, it is still a hopkick (range wise).

Keep Out: 3/5
She doesnt really have a "keep out" move. If anything its her magic 4, but since its more of a 41 rather then a 4, it sucks more then the normal magic 4s.
Lili is not a 1 because of her crazy sidestepping skill. No other character can side step kazuya's df2.

Wakeups: 3/3
All her throws lead to wakeups.Guess wrong and you would be eating her flips (df3+4), getting hit from your back, or getting popped up into a combo.
Her air combo using her flip kicks is a guessing game between 64+ damage or 58 damage with wakeups afterwards.
ff4 on grounded leads to sick wakeup games as well.

Damage: 2/3
Low parry leading to more then 80 damage or more then 75 damage with wake ups is pretty up there.
Her staple combo damage goes over 60 damage, and even when you're not THAT close to walls, the f2,1+2 finisher can guarantee a df3+4.

Overall Rating: 17/26


Bruce

Punishment - 4/5
Standard 1,2 for -10. -12 Bruce gets a nice chunk of life with f+2,4. -15 Bruce can get hop kick and moves that push back he gets b+2. All very nice. He can also punish most low pokes with ws+2,1. Sweeps he get u/, N,4 and ducked throws he can get hop kick.

Offense - 1/5
His throws are the worst in the game, his lows are low damage and are pretty punishable. He has b+2 as his main mid, but nothing specail. His cd guesing game isn't bad, but the low option just doesn't do enough damage and doesn't give enough advantage to be extremely scared of. All other mids and launchers are punishable, don't do much damage or too slow. A good turtle absolutely destroys Bruce.

Whiff Punishing - 4/5
b+2, one of the better whiff punishers in the game. Fast, unpunishable, sets up wake-ups and on CH Bruce gets half life. If he had a launcher with some range, this would be a 5.

Keep Out/Panic Moves - 2/5
Bruce has a lot of trouble tracking, so people ss'ing as they come in can give him problems. d/f+1,2 does good damage but punishable for some character and his ass on whiff. d/f+4 is ok, but ss'able, d/f+33 is decent but a lil slow and also linear. At least has evasive moves with d/b+4 and db/+3 strings, ff+2 is a good punch parry, d/f+3 as a decent high crush and hop as a good low crush.

Wake-ups - 1/3
He has cd+3 which does good damage, unfortunetly punishable though. d+4 is also horribly punishable along with everything else that does decent damage to a grounded opponent.

Damage - 2/3
When Bruce guesses right defensivly, he does good damage, his launches, punishaments and CH's do very nice chunks. But if he falls behind, he has nothing to catch up, he has to take 4 or 5 big risks just to get back into the game.

Overall Rating: 14/26


Last edited by Slips on May 27th, 2007 at 17:37

Signature "You still don't know what you're dealing with, do you? A perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility?I admire its purity. A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse or delusions of morality."

TheDinosaur
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#5 “Quote” Edit Post
stickied. don't anyone else respond to this thread except Slips, if you have comments make them in the "character ranking" thread in T5: DR General Discussions. I'll lock thread and delete this post once (if ) all characters are accounted for.
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shani_shadbagh
7th Dan
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Pakistan
#6 “Quote” Edit Post
wow!

What a great info and hard-working!
GGamer
Master
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From: Australia
#7 “Quote” Edit Post
thanks for posting this to let us no big help
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Your power level?
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