Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 193
From: Italy
PSN: EvilDice
# “Quote” Edit Post
I didn't saw all this discussion about my post.

May be I have to explain something because some of my suggestion seems out of mind.

But I'm agree with e player that say the problem is in the overpower of all other Chars and the solution is not give more power to a weak character.

But we all know that way is almost impossible to follow.

All my suggestion are based on the frame list of the opponent of Tekken 6.

I'm quite sure the other Character are not so changed, like always.
In the logic of the game I want just analyze the wakens point of Lei to give him more competitive.
No one of Lei player won a great tournament in Tekken 6.
And I didn't see in the first 3 position.
May be sometime but is very very rare.
The reason is simple.
Other character are overpowered then Lei.

Now I want to analyze with you the fix of some move:

1. f+3 -12 on block WHY???? must be -9 There are a lot of 16f mid hit confirmable in the game more doungerous and they are safe.

- these other character shouldn't have it. thaqts why they took out Bobs. This move is used as wall ender, juggle filler and 16f pushback punisher, so its nowhere near useless

I'm not agree with you.
f+3 is a very good punisher for whiffing moves.
Is on button, more easy than ff+3
Is long and hit confirmable.
If I want to make a safe 50% to my opponent using a mid move, what I have to use?
First of RR that give me a free 1,2 on duking opponent? Yes, but is very short.
d/f+1+2? Good but 25point damage
d/f+1,1? 29 points but is unsafe
f,f+3? slow against f+3 and unsafe
d/f+4? lol
d+2? long but just 21 points

Try to see other character what kind of option they have.

Heiachi d/f+1,2 hit confirm
Lee f+1,2 hit confirm
Bob lol
Paul 3,2 Hitconfirm
Jin d/b+2,1
Law b+1,2 or WS+1,2 hit confirm
Kaz and DJ d/f+4,4 hit confirm
Bryan b+4 f,f+2
Jack d/f+3,2 hitconfirm
And more others...
And you think f+3 safe is over powered or useless.
May be we didn't play the same Tekken.

2. f,f+2 -10 on block. I think must be -5 or +2 like Bryan's b+1

-10 is ok, most chars get only dickpunches if theres no pushback. Again such a move +2 would mean you abuse it all fukcing day long

Are you sure that you abuse that move if give you advantage?
How many Bryan's b+1 have you saw in the last year?
Not so much.
In Tekken 5 Lei's f,f+2 was overpowered.
Unsidesteppable, safe -10 was ridiculous leaving the opponent in duck position, and always had juggle.
Bryan had the same situation but the move was sisteppable but with advantage in block.
All the time b+1.
Bryan was fixed finally.
Lei was fixed but now the -10 is not justified.
May be the advantage +2 is too much. But consider the fact that f,f+2 i SSteppable and launch just in CH is not so overpowered.
The logic behind of the game is:
Launcher or grab damage move, have free punishment.
f,f+2 is not in this category.

3. f,f+3 -14? on block. Must be -12.

- I don't say anything to that

Be careful. Not f,f+3,b but simple f,f+3.
Any way.
I saw that all launcher in TTT2 can be punished by -13 or by -14.
If all Character have the same disadvantage… for me is perfect -14 :-)

4. f,f+3,4 must be safe and mid the second. the rest like now.

- dito

Ok… I think there is a misunderstanding.
Why f,f+3,4 must be safe and mid?
Because if connect you lose the juggle.
And make just 21 points damage.
Is like any single move move like f,f+2 of Jin, DJ, Feng etc..
Any way item second kick could be high, but must be safe. If you want to punish you have to duck.

5. f,f+4_f_b Must have more advantage if connect to permit to use the animal stances.

- use it after B! and your fine

The more useless juggle technic of the game.
The opponent just press B and the pressure are finished… lol
Just whet the opponent is close to the wall, but in that case is more better do the wall carry.
May be you don't know, but f,f+4 was unsidesteppable. Is more fast than d/f+3 and in some situation is Hcrush.
Give more advantage to f,f+4 stance, give to the move more sense.
I don't talking about +20f.
But a reasonable advantage to make pressure using the stances.
For example give +4 and go in crane, is not over powered, because the most fast move from that stance is 14f. The same for Phoenix.
The opponent can block. Try 1 to have same contact, SS.
This +4 can just open the game.

6. d/b+3 -15 on block. Are you crazy?!?!?! little damage, full HC, no advantage and no CH bonus, must be -12 on block.

it's the same as everyone elses generic db+3

It's true.
But all characters have a 12 f low kick Full High crush move.
Lei hasn't.
Lei is the one (or there are two or 3) that hasn't this underestimate kick.
I had loses a lot of matches, because my opponent has just 5 point of life but has very good High move or counter high move.
VS Mishimas, Law, Julia, Lee, ecc..
I think to all of you was happened something like that.
All kick of Lei but d+4, are punishable by launcher.
The full crunch kick is the same.
You can tell me: Duck and punish.
But duck under high move with out a easy WS launcher, is very difficult.
Naturally we can use the hop kick while we are in ducking position, but is more difficult than the simple ws move.
And what all the other characters have the 12f full HC move and a WS easy move and Lei no?
Now finally is arrived ws+3+4… FINALLY!!!!
But the logic of d/b+3 to -12 on the past Lei and a little bit in TTT2 have a sense.

7. d+3 -14 on block. Must be -12

- doesn't matter at all, but ok

No wait is important thing.
On turtle standing opponent with good reflex that can block d/b+4 d+3 is a must use move.
But vs some character -14 is the death.

8. d/f+1 -5 on block. With the same properties like T6 is nonsense. If there is a delay option d/f+1>1 is right to be -5 but there isn't any delay option and the second was -10. You have to make the second safe if you leave the -5 on the first punch.

no, df+1 strings are gay

This move is very good now.
d/f+1,1 is now -9
I hope.
But must be duked the second.
If jail the opponent may be is not balanced.
But in any case is not overpowered.

9. ss+1 Delete this command. Leave to Lei the option to use 1,2 in ss.

- swl cancel 1

You're right.
But I prefer 12424234 times to use a simple ss and do 1,2 with out that stupid move.

10. ss+4 Delete this move. Is useless. And give to Lei the use of 4 during the ss like Law.

is actually a really good move, dito

I don't know what mean "dito"
Any way.
This move is shit.
Just vs a noob player can connect.
During a SS is 3948756239487 times better use d/f+2.
Is safe like ss+4 but moooore faster.
If connect because the opponent duck when see you makin the SS… your opponent is a noob.

11. 1,1,f SNK -6 if connect. Useless. Give him +1.


12. Connect 2,1,f DRU 0. Give him +3

doesn't matter, people can interrupt anyways. DRU stance is a joke in general

is not right.
If Lei goes in DRU with +3 he can revers high punch for juggle.
Can reverse mid high punch doing DRU f+3+4.
Can pass under high move with b+1+2.
Some time can pass under mid move using DRU+3+4.
Having more advantage is better.
I'd like to use the stance and for use it in that situation, must have more advantage.

13. 2,1,3+4 must be all combo in CH.

- again other chars shouldn't have that as well

Lee CH 2,2
Bryan 1,2,4
Law 1,2,3 or 2,2,2
Dragunov 1,2,3 or ,4
Jin 1,2,4

If 1,2,3+4 is punishable by 12f must be a reason.
-12 for what?
Cold be a trap. yes
but with all monster move in the game I don't think this sequence is overpowered.

14. 4,4,3,3 must be all combo in CH.

not in a tag game. too strong / safe

First Is not safe.
I'm agree with you with the tag move could be too powerful.
To find a utilization of that move, namco can change the properties of the last kick if tagged or not.
If tagged Lei freeze on the ground and the opponent can has more time to punish.
Without tag, recover more faster and have just a kick if connect.

15. 1+2,2 must be safe the second. The opponent can SS the second. and can interrupt with 1. And this is not a single move. Must be safe.

- mix it with 1+2,1

To go on the air.
with d+1 the opponent can close the game.
That move is difficult to understand when use it.
To punish ok. -14 1+2,1 is very good.
1+2,2 must be fixed for the juggle.
If executed in CH may be is better if Lei has e good Juggle.
In that case the -11 after the 2 is right.
But this move in CH doesn't guarantee juggle on all characters.
If remain like T6 I don't think any one use it.

16. f+4,2 The punch must be unrevesable if the first kick is blocked.

- if you get reversaled for that, u overuse

With out good High crush move, this move is very good.
And against good player they don't try to reverse, they can make back dash and punish.
This move must jail the opponent and the second can't be reversed.
This move is like a telephone call opponent see f+4 and know what have to do.
But if you play with noob player … heheheh :-p

17. d/f+1+2,f TGR +3 in all situation. Must have +3 on block, +5 on Hit and +10 on CH.

- +10 lol

Why lol.
this move is 18f.
In ch must have a free hit like all the slow move of the game.
+10f is useless anyway.
Because from TGR the most fastest move is 15f. Lol what?!?!?!
There is nothing guarantee with +10.
In normal hit the opponent can do D+1 to go un simultaneous contact vs TGR+4.
But Lei can jump over the d+1 using TGR+3.
I'd like CH d/f+1+2 crush the opponent on the ground for a free hit. Nothing special anyway.
And I don't think this can be overpowered.
Leaving d/f+1+2,f TGR to +3 in every situation it's very easy for the opponent close the game using jus ws+4.
Some time pushing back in TGR stance, the opponent ws+4 can wiff… but is not a rule and depends to the opponent's character.

18. d+2,2 Must be hit confirmable if the first hit is in CH. There is any signal to undestand if the fisrt is in CH or not.

- it is, as Exalted said

Yes but is very difficult to do.
Must be enlarge the window of the hit confirmation.

19. d+4,4 -15. Too much disadvantage. must be -12 or -9. Can be -15 if this combo is hit confirm on CH.

no. pushes back too far for -12. many characters cannot punish properly or have to guess DRU pushback

I don't know what kind of Tekken did you play.
Bryan punch easy and launch.
Steve punish easy.
Misimas punish easy and launch.
Feng punish easy.
Lee punish easy Heavy.
Bob punish easy and Heavy.
Law punish easy.
Lars punish easy and heavy
King and AR punish easy and heavy
Ling Punish easy and launch
Jack punish easy and Launch
and so on.

This move has to much negative frames for the damage can do.
And the DRU after is totally useless.
Use this move is like a suicide.
Must be fixed.
I don't know how, but like T6 is totally useless.

20. b+1+2 in CH must have free hit. Not launcher but +13 or +14.

- its already safe and highcrushing, that's ok

I'm not agree.
This move is 25 frames.
When you use Lei risk too much.
25f is too slow.
You can take quite all the opponent mid and low command list.
And for what?!?!?
30 points?
In a game with 74t5836434234523 crush safe and fast move??!?!?!

Are you kidding?

In the past TTT the b+1+2 was CH free.
The move was Hcrush but was too slow and easy to kill.
So, namco cut away the CH.
It was intelligent things, but all mid launcher was guarantee.
The headbutt must be safe and give a free hit or send the opponent to the ground for e free hit in CH.

21. f,n+4,1,2,2,2,f DRA -4 on block. Are you crazy?!?!?! -4 is too much. For me must be +2 like the other Tekken. Because the opponent can ss very easy all the moves launched from the Dragon stance.

- what about adopting to your opponent

What is the sense to be -4 standing in Dragon stance?
The opponent can do a 12-13 mid move and that's it.
Non game.
No option.
And hast a free 12f d+4.
What is the sense?
with DRA and +2 the opponent can just do d+4.
But from DRA can SS to TGR and may be the d+4 can be SS… may be.
And pushing b is possible that d+4 wife.
whit +2 the game is more open.
With -4 exit in DRA during the sequence, is totally useless.

22. b,b+1 must be Mid.

- this move is really useless I agree, but making it mid wouldn't change anything because it never crushes anything

Sometime can wiff some move.
Is too slow to be high.
Is very easy of r the opponent duck.
Mid and safe is more better.

23. WS+2,1 must be deleyable or hitconfirmable.

isn?t it delayable?

No… is not delayable.
32 point damage from a ws move and be -13 is very stupid.
The move must be like zafina ws+2,1. delayable.
This move looking all the other ws move of the game is totally useless.

24. FC f+2,1 must be always combo.


25. f+3+4 DRU parry. Must have +13 for free hit and reverse all high and mid moves, kicks and punches.

wha? no. should be better / give something guaranteed but punches only

Hem with Lei +13 is the same to say punch punishable.
f+2,1 is 12f and make 28 point damage.
d/f+1,1 make 29 point

But with 13f if you are very good, you can do f,n+4,1,2 for 44 point.

26. DRU,f Parry from DRU must revers mid and high punch and not just high. Better if can revers the kick and punches.

only punches

For me ok just punches.

27. DRU Throw. Must be 1 or 2 with thw same animation but differente escape button.

- I highly agree here

28. d+3+4, 4 the 4 kick must be safe on block.

why? Wanna throw it out all day long?

But may be I can't explain myself.
The logic of the game is powerful move must be punishable.
Do you think d+3+4, 4 is powerful?
-12 for what?!?! because make 21 point damage?
From that stance the low kick is punishable by launcher, the mid don't make a lot damage but must be safe.

29. DRA,3 must be -12


30. Transition SNK>PAN must block the low hits like the old Tekken.


WHY?!?!?! WHY?!?!?!?!
Because is in duck position when change in PAN.
It was alway like that in all Tekken.
When you are in SNK Lei can't block low attack.
The single way to block was change to PAN.
Without the block use the SNK stage is more difficult.
And why about the recovery time during the change stances?
Too much.
I the other Tekken when change position Lei can block just after the and of the animation.
Now, it take a loooot of time after the and of animation to block.

31. SNK 2,2,f DRA must have +2

on hit it guess

On Block!!!!
Is the same situation of f,n+4,1,2,2,f DRG
If connect the first punch from SNK, you can hit confirm the last.
Why I have to stop the combo to the first 2 punches?
To have +2 with a Low kick that make 15 points and if blocked is -15…. LOL

32. CRA 1 must be high crush.

why? no.

Because from that stance Lei in case of disadvantage, like blocked u/f+3 having 1 HCrush has a minimum of game.
Is the same like f,f+4,3+4,f CRA if connected the opponent can try to punish because Lei hasn't enough advantage to try any moves.
Using the high punches the opponent can close the game easy.
If Lei has the CRA 1 high crush can open some games.
In the old tekken CRA 1 has some hc properties.

33. d/b+1+2
Why this move is so short and has -13.
Lars has the same but -10 if blocked, is more long and has juggle in CH
Eddy has the same move but is safe and has juggle always.
Yoshi has the same but is try difficult to punish and is more long.
Feng has the same.

Bah… some one hate Lei… hehehehe

We can discuss on every things I wrote.
But I'm not stupid and I try to analyze all the aspect of the game looking the overpower of the other character.
Like all of you I'd like to have a 10f homing mid unblockable move long half screen that make 100 point damage to kill all the stupid player that win using easy and overpowered characters.

I had saw a lot of very good player like Suiken, GreenLei, Ivory and others loose against the game and not against the opponent.
A lot of things of this character must be fixed… bugs are always around the corner.
And always come out during an important match… grrrrrrrr

Hoping TTT2 is more balanced. :-)