Murakumo
1,2,4:4 all day long
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 3631
From: Japan
PSN: TZMurakumo
# “Quote” Edit Post
With Jack to Lee

Combos from Jack...
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A few aerial hits into B!,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: ff+1,2,2

ex:
Jack: FC,d/f+1,2,1, b+3,2, ff+1,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: ff+1+2,2*

* note: you can get this potentially more hits out into the juggle by 1) having Lee dash before b+2,4,3 which brings Jack in closer, and 2), dashing or running into a forward dash cancelled (qcf,f) version of ff+1+2,2... this allows Jack to run or dash into it without geting WR+2... ff~qcf,f+1+2 = dash into it. This allowed a Jack/Ogre friend of mind to hit ff+1+2,2 on aerial hits 8,9, even.
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A couple aerial hits into B!,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: FF, b+3,2,2

ex:
Jack: d/f+2, 2, ff+1,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: FF, b+3,2,2*

* note: This actually does slightly less damage than ff+1+2,2 I believe, but give better carry. Also, you should wait a second before beginning to run and start the b+3,2,2 when they're close to the ground. Running too early will stop you when you get close and then only b+3,2 will connect.
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A couple aerial hits into B!,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: ff+1,2,2

ex:
Jack: FC,d/f+1,2,1, b+3,2, ff+1,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: ff+1+2,2*

* note: you can get this potentially more hits out into the juggle by 1) having Lee dash before b+2,4,3 which brings Jack in closer, and 2), dashing or running into a forward dash cancelled (qcf,f) version of ff+1+2,2... this allows Jack to run or dash into it without geting WR+2... ff~qcf,f+1+2 = dash into it. This allowed a Jack/Ogre friend of mind to hit ff+1+2,2 on aerial hits 8,9, even.
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Any number of hits into B!,5...
Lee: b+2~f,N series
Jack: finish as desired

ex:
Jack: ff+1+2, d/f+1, b+4,4,5...
Lee: b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, 1,2~f,N, (w), d/f+3,2,3
Jack: d/b+1,1,1 -> oki*

* note: Lee doesn't tag out when finishing any move with MS cancel... you can also finish the carry with WS+2,3 back to Jack, but then you'll just finish on the wall with Jack
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A couple aerial hits into B!,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: ff+1,2,2

ex:
Jack: FC,d/f+1,2,1, b+3,2, ff+1,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: ff+1+2,2*

* note: you can get this potentially more hits out into the juggle by 1) having Lee dash before b+2,4,3 which brings Jack in closer, and 2), dashing or running into a forward dash cancelled (qcf,f) version of ff+1+2,2... this allows Jack to run or dash into it without geting WR+2... ff~qcf,f+1+2 = dash into it. This allowed a Jack/Ogre friend of mind to hit ff+1+2,2 on aerial hits 8,9, even.
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d/f+2+4, ff+1,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: ff+1,2,2*

* also:
Jack: d/f+2+4, ff+1,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: ff, b+3,2,2 **

** note: unlike the earlier combo, this ff, b+3,2,2 is done with the opponent high in the air. I believe the first version still does more damage. Also, if you're coming up on a wall, Jack ff+1 finish into oki is optimal as it won't whiff with them high up after Lee's part, even at wall.
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A couple aerial hits into B!,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: ff+1,2,2

ex:
Jack: FC,d/f+1,2,1, b+3,2, ff+1,5...
Lee: b+2,4,3...
Jack: ff+1+2,2*

* note: you can get this potentially more hits out into the juggle by 1) having Lee dash before b+2,4,3 which brings Jack in closer, and 2), dashing or running into a forward dash cancelled (qcf,f) version of ff+1+2,2... this allows Jack to run or dash into it without geting WR+2... ff~qcf,f+1+2 = dash into it. This allowed a Jack/Ogre friend of mind to hit ff+1+2,2 on aerial hits 8,9, even.
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d/f,d/f+2+4,5...
Lee: class 1 juggle of choice

ex:
Jack: d/f,d/f+2+4,5...
Lee: U/F,N+4, b+1:1~f,N, 2, b+2~f,N, b+2~f,N, b+1:1~f,N, f+4,3,5...
Jack: u+1+2...
Lee: FF, 1,2~f,N, FF, (w), 2, d/f+1, ff+3
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(w), B!,5 into...
Lee: b+2~f,N, d/f+3,2,3... (b+2~f,N hits high wall so d/f+3,2,3 does NOT finish with a 70% hit)
Jack: d/b+1,1,1 -> oki

ex:
Jack: WS+3,2, (W!), bb~f+4, (w), ff+1,5...
Lee: b+2~f,N, d/f+3,2,3
Jack: d/b+1,1,1 -> oki *

* note: I believe d/f+3+4 can be done here instead of d/b+1,1,1 and hit at 70% with very slight delay. Possibly more damage*
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(w), B!,5 into...
Lee: 4,u+3...
Jack: f+4, d/f+3+4 (70%)

ex:
Jack: d/f+3+4, (W!), bb~f+4, (w), ff+1,5... (4 hits high wall)
Lee: 4,u+3...
Jack: f+4, d/f+3+4 *

* note: should be more damage than the above combo. I believe it's guaranteed, though perhaps my opponent didn't tech. I haven't used this as any sort of staple or anything yet.
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As far as solo Jack... I find it works well for me to start with Lee and poke and HC safely. If Lee is getting taken down, Jack has an opportunity for a combeback in somewhat reckless advancement with good lows and opportunities for big damage. If I'm ahead but Lee's getting kind of low, I will advance more carefully with Jack, or turtle up a bit.

Basics of my way too basic Jack...
- d/f+2 whiff punish to combo
- ff+1+2 ranged whiff punish to combo
- FC,d/f+1,2,1 whiff punish wakeup kicks
- FC,d/b+1 whore it at it's fastest... less safe on block, and less + on hit, but still good (+4 now?)
- ff+1 EVERYWHERE
- d/f+2+4 throw, ff+1,5,... combo does about 50% life or more
- Can on offense mix ff, d/f,d/f+2+4,5 throw with ff, d/b,f+1+2 throw. Big damage on either.
- At wall, b+2 is still + on block. I go to d/b+1. If d/b+1 hits, I normally FC,d/b+1,1, then either go for another of those or mix with WS+3,2 for mid splat...
- In the words of Nick, a high-ranked Jack/Ogre player in Tokyo, "Just run up and u/f+2 elbow all day!"
- 1+2 is now H,H... if I think the opponent's gonna step, I usually go for fF+1 to try and realign and hit.
- f+2 is still the i10 punish
- 2,1 is i11--don't believe what InaTekken says. I can confirm this one!
- WS+2,1 is i14 I believe (pretty damn sure it's not the i11 Ina claims), and -14 on block, I think. Semi-Hc-able, forces crouch. Something like 0 or +1 on hit. It's got really good range so it's a decent option after FC,d/b+1 (don't stick out the second hit unless you HC/semi-HC it, though).
- f+3,1+2 I haven't been using at all--enticing properties, but slow and almost no range.

Jack to me is more about reading your opponent's reactions than is Lee, at least on offense. Lee can poke pretty damn safely now, With Jack, after ff, FC,d/b+1 for example as a pretty safe low poke, you can ff+1. If they wanna throw out WS+4 to stuff you, you try and bait and launch it. If they're not backdashing or anything, you can also FC,d/b+1 hit into FC+4, WS, etc. If your opponent throws shit out, just wait and punish and wait until you have considerable + frames before doing anything. If they like to beat your slower assault on frames with jabs, throw out something that'll beat them (f+2, into d/f+2 if they like to attack even after your punish). People who played him before complain he's nerfed, but I didn't really use him in 6 so I'm not really noticing much. What I do see is that he has the opportunity for combeack if your Lee is trailing, and makes a decent turtle if you're leading. Also compliments Lee's combos very well.

Last edited by Murakumo on Dec 11th, 2011 at 20:30

Signature Hit confirms and just frames in a mist trap sandwich!