Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2794
From: USA California
PSN: tyler2k1
# “Quote” Edit Post
Originally posted by BlackPriest

Yes, I feel the same. 2 damage more is just not enough compared to the awesome frame advantage of 4,1 in an actual match, and 35 dmg is very bad for a 14 frames punisher.
However, I guess we should keep the punish list this way, because this way it's clear what moves are -14, just in case someone wants to use other moves like a f,f+1+2 grab for example.
But then again that's just me. And the downside is that f+4,4 has better range than 4,1, thus making it impossible too see where 4,1 can be used instead of f+4,4 if I keep the list this way.
Ideas everybody? Shall I edit it?

Tyler: Thanks, will include this when doing the punishment list for Marduk.

EDIT: Wang is up.

Well there are certain moves that are -14 but are clearly in range for 4,1 punishment, certain hop kicks such as Raven f,f+3 and Miguel u/f+4. I too agree with Aris that 4,1 is superior for punishment in almost every way and f+4,4 being -1/0 on hit is an absolute joke. I personally think the only two punishers that are viable are 4,1 and b+3. When I originally wrote the Manifesto the 14 frame punisher I continuously referred to was f+4,4 mainly because I figured the punisher with the most damage is the superior, but what I didn't realize at the time was how bad the frames on hit were. Also it's misleading range and tendency to whiff notable -14 moves at certain ranges leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

As such I never use f+4,4 for punishing and almost exclusively use 4,1 or b+3 for pushback punishment.

In any case I too appreciate what you're doing, keep up the good work.
Signature My fighting game website - NOW BACK!!! | twitch.tv/tyler2k - My twitch.tv channel |
Tutorial Series: iWS tutorial video | CC and CDc tutorial video | Hit Confirm tutorial video
Beginner Series: Throw System (Part 1, Part 2)